Steve Harris: one of the greatest metal songwriters ever or a magpie?

GhostofCain

GhostofCain

Ancient Mariner
Disclaimer: this is a (mostly) tongue-in-cheek thread!

Most early Maiden songs were credited to Steve Harris. However, some people are now claiming that is not true. In some cases, influences from other songs are quite evident, but in others (see the Maiden77 facebook page) it is claimed (without providing any evidence) that other people contributed to several songs.

lira27 posted at the old Iron Maiden Fan Club forum the following contributions of Maiden members from the early days to early stuff:

Rance & Sullivan: 'Innocent Exile', 'Iron Maiden'
Bob Sawyer: 'Sanctuary'
Dennis Willcock: 'Charlotte the harlot', 'Iron Maiden', 'Phantom of the opera'
Terry Wapram: 'Phantom of the opera'
Dennis Stratton: 'Phantom of the opera'
Paul Day: 'Strange World'
Barry Graham: 'The Ides of March'

Then, we also have the Beckett connection, with Steve using bits from 'Life's shadow' in 'Hallowed be Thy name' and 'The nomad'. We all know how that ended...

The other day I found a bit of Budgie that immediately made me think about an early classic from Maiden. Check the bass 5 minutes and 16 seconds into this song:


So what do you think? Is Steve one of the greatest songwriters ever or just someone who happened to exploit the talent of other people for his own benefit? Or is Rod Smallwood the one to blame? :D
 
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Where's the maiden part in that? didn't have time to listen to the whole thing.

also, phantom was surely around long before Stratton was involved in Maiden?
 
srfc said:
Where's the maiden part in that? didn't have time to listen to the whole thing.
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Sorry, the bit that clearly influenced Steve is 5 minutes and 16 seconds into the song.

srfc said:
also, phantom was surely around long before Stratton was involved in Maiden?
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True, but if I remember correctly lira27 mentioned that Dennis has had some input into the song too.
 
I think dennis himself says on the early days, and it might be in the mick wall book too, that he snuck into the studio and recorded some queen-esque vocal harmonies on the song, which did not make it on to the record, maybe this is what's meant
 
srfc said:
I think dennis himself says on the early days, and it might be in the mick wall book too, that he snuck into the studio and recorded some queen-esque vocal harmonies on the song, which did not make it on to the record, maybe this is what's meant
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Probably. As I said, I was not claiming that Dennis had co-written the song. Don't shoot the messenger! :)
 
Heard the bit now, obviously it's similar, but there's not really enough there to suggest a rip off.
 
Let me ask you all something : if you were 16 and had a high school garage band that had many "musicians" passing through it, e.g. kids go in and out, and if you had set of your own songs which have evolved through time, since it is the beginning of the musician learning curve - as you learn a new lick or technique you're putting it in your playing asap, and each kid that passed through a band changed a lick or a piece of lyric, who will be listed as author once you get the record deal? You wouldn't even remember who brought in what, in past couple of years, mind that you don't approach your garage band as going to be a huge thing one day, so lets write down legal details in advance. Nobody does that with bands. Teen musicians don't think about the business. I can guarantee that first time Harris thought of the credits was after Smallwood came in. There could be a dozen people listed for most early Maiden songs because those people introduced changes to the songs. Does it matter? No it doesn't. Charlotte's lyrics were attributed to Murray because Harris wasn't sure where they came from.

Please try to see this in context, 16 y.o kids. When someone is asking why Harris left out this, and that, they're asking why would a legendary songwriter do that, which is wrong, because he was a teen plonker.

I don't know about you people but I've been in a few garage bands throughout highschool, the circulation was high, someone did produce a first riff, and every subsequent guitarist would twist it in his own style, after 10 guys and three changed rhythm sections the evolved riff doesn't resemble the original. In 99% of the cases the original riff won't be inspired by moment of ingenuity, rather with "let's try something like Paranoid riff", or whatever.
 
It seems that the tongue-in-cheek nature of the topic is lost on some! :D

By the way, Steve Harris was nearly 20 years old when he created Iron Maiden, not 16. ;) Other than that, I agree with your take on the contributions from the hazy early days. The Maiden77 guys beg to differ though!
 
I think the issue is Steve didn't want people who no longer were in the band having any legal say regarding Maiden's material, hence people being paid off for their rights etc.

If it was about Steve trying to claim glory for himself, surely he would have stuck a Harris writing credit on Charlotte.
 
Wickerman1204 said:
Moonchild:
00:00 - 00:08

The Book of Souls:
12;44

Hello all, first post.
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Well, I think Moonchild is mostly H/Bruce. I think H played that riff on the keybaord.

Book Of Souls does sound similar, but if I had to describe it, I'd say that it's if Jethro Tull, Gates Of Babylon and Kashmir had a child...
 
Steve also loses points for basing nearly all his songs on movies for me.

I think he got the 666 thing from the Genesis song “Suppers Ready”. Random thought.
 
Truth be told I was never that high on Steve's lyrics. He's more of a composer and arranger than lyricist to me. Most of those are ready to go themes, a book, a movie, or even another song. He adapts it to the metal format. The minority has some brilliant lyrics like TBOS, however he falls down to #2 behind Dickinson in lyrics dept.
 
Zare said:
Truth be told I was never that high on Steve's lyrics. He's more of a composer and arranger than lyricist to me. Most of those are ready to go themes, a book, a movie, or even another song. He adapts it to the metal format. The minority has some brilliant lyrics like TBOS, however he falls down to #2 behind Dickinson in lyrics dept.
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True. But I like how he is changing as a lyricist. TMOS from TBOS are possibly one of the most personal lyrics he has ever written and probably among his best.

Another song that is lyricaly underrated is FTGGOG. If only wasnt for the repetative chorus...
 
Yah, agreed. He is consistently good nowadays. Nowadays as in post 1990s or something like that...the early days for instance have some seriously bad lyrics in there, and the mid 80s has some of those too.
 
I sometimes wonder how conversations between Rod and Steve might have been like...

1982, recording The Number of the Beast

Rod: Hallowed be Thy Name is such a fookin' great tune!
Steve: I have some borrowed lyrics from Beckett's Life's Shadow that I need to change...
Rod: We do not have time for that and nobody would ever notice!

1983, recording Piece of Mind

Rod: Steve, the melody of that Dune song of yours sounds vaguely familiar.
Steve: Well, I ran out of ideas and used Albeniz's Asturias...
Rod: Oh, who's Albeniz?
Steve: A classical composer.
Rod: Is he dead?
Steve: I think so.
Rod: Then it does not fookin' matter!


2000, recording Brave New World

Steve: Rod, I have decided to use some material we did not finish in time for Virtual XI. Have a listen.
Rod: OK. That bit off The Nomad reminds me of something.
Steve: Well, I have been listening to Beckett again...
Rod: And?
Steve: And there is this song, Life's Shadow, that has a fantastic instrumental part...
Rod: So?
Steve: I have borrowed it and changed it slightly. I do not think anyone will notice.
Rod: If they do and say something, we will send them our lawyers.
 
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