Any Ideas On A New Album

Cornfed Hick said:
I can't remember the details, I just recall coming away from the video thinking that he was unhappy with how the record sounded, and that he believes he is more of a perfectionist than the other guys about making sure everything is clean, in tune, and on key.

EDIT: I have to say I agree with him -- I've never particularly liked the muddy, sloppy sound that Caveman typically has given the music, though I think AMOLAD generally sounds better than the others.
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I don't hate the sound of the post-reunion albums, but generally I agree.
Yet I can point to two early '90s albums engineered by Caveman — Rush Counterparts and Billy Squier Tell the Truth — where I absolutely love the sound. They may not be technically precise, but they are clear and the rough edges add to the sound, rather than muddy it. I wonder what changed.
 
Don't get me wrong - I'd love to hear a solo album from Dave. I just don't think it's happening. Why should he have waited for decades before releasing it?
The way I see it, when they eventually quit, they will still play together, or at least some of them will.
 
Cornfed Hick said:
I can't remember the details,
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Here they are, impossible to forget:
http://www.ironmaiden.com/the-final-frontier---recording-diary-by-kevin-shirley.html

Tuesday January 26, 2010 Nassau, Bahamas
Workout with a trainer again at 8am - he kicked my butt!
All the band - bar Bruce, who's gone back to London - meet at the studio to listen to all the tracks we've recorded and get a good overview of the album. All the guys seem excited after the playback, and we start work embellishing the rough recordings of Coming Home with some overdubs. Adrian puts an acoustic guitar picking through the verses and choruses, which we double track for stereo imaging. Then Davey plays the first of the guitar solos on his Les Paul guitar, which ironically sounds like a Strat! it's a very Hendrixy Little Wing-ish solo, and he's happy with the result. He's always happy! Then Adrian added the second solo. We assemble a different monitoring system for him in the studio, so he balances his own mix and listen on Genelecs. He's uncomfortable initially, but after a while we get a great solo from him. The raw sound bothers him, so i add a little Pitch Shift, and he's happy. End of the day. Off to the local bar called The Poop Deck for burgers and beer. And coffee tequila. And a last cleansing beer. Nicko and his chef mate, Frankie, visiting from new York, leave first. I leave Jan and Davey chatting at the bar.

February 25, 2010 Malibu, California
Last night was a rough night with our poor little sick kids - so not too much sleep at all for any of us last night. Got to my studio just after 11am to find Steve doing the crosswords - he loves them! I had to dig back into Mother of Mercy and complete the vocal compiling!
Adrian came by The Cave for a listen - he thought the tracks sounded good but "a little too much like the band in the studio". He thought more reverb to make them sound more "majestic" and "epic". Steve disagreed strongly. Honestly, they are both right. The thing I personally like about the dry, honest mixes, is that it sets them apart from any other Classic Rock or Metal band. They're not really metal anyway, in the present day sense of the genre, but they're more of a hard progressive rock band. I promised to run some mixes each way and decisions can be made down the road, if necessary.

March 9, 2010 Malibu, California
Mixed The Man Who Would Be King. Adrian came in and said it all sounded good - and said he was 95% happy with the album mixes and we should look at them and tweak them slightly - I am perfectly happy to reassess any of the mixes, as daunting as the prospect of revisiting everything is, changing sonics etc., but Steve and I are quite happy with it and neither of us can really afford the extra time it would take to remix, so Steve jumped in and basically said we're going to be done this weekend and we are not remixing the entire album. Adrian ultimately understood but wasn't thrilled about it!

March 11, 2010 Malibu, California
Mixed Starblind today. Adrian came by to hear it - and was desirous of more reverb on some things - it's a little bit of a continuous internal battle, and is essentially just a different way to hear things. Def Leppard on one hand, something garagey on the other. Extra reverb was not added to anything. Adrian left happy and understanding, I thought!!!
 
I remember the first time I read this diary - I was totally shocked. And the documentary about the making of the Final Frontier...Although Adrian says there that having arguments and disagreements is a natural thing, I just couldn't get over how bitter he sounded.
 
I don't think that those exerts (above) sound bitter at all. Adrian likes the mix, but thinks they should have more reverb (i.e. more like SiT! :D) --this doesn't sound like some big disagreement. They can't all mix the album. Bruce had gone home for Christ sake!

For what it's worth, I think Adrian's wishes would probably have sounded better. But the band is never going to reproduce this (Adrian's desired sound) live. Nothing from SiT live (how little we hear says enough already) sounds like the album. It's an album vs. live battle. Clearly Steve wanted the album to sound far more stripped down i.e. closer to what it would sound like live.

I can see both sides of the argument; if I haven't over simplified it...
 
Those here do not sound bitter at all, I agree, but that's Kevin's point of view.
Adrian sounded much less happy in the Final Frontier documentary, though.
 
TFF would've sounded hundred times better if it had extra reverb. Adrian was right. I see Steve's point (the point CWBL explained) too but they don't have much time left in them and it's probably the second last album they were going to release, why care so much about the live versions ? They only played four songs from the album anyway.

Mother of Mercy, Isle of Avalon, Starblind, The Man Who Would Be King and When the Wild Wind Blows were perfect songs to use extra reverb on. Album is based on space, reverb would fit its atmosphere.

Adrian really is the most creative member in the band right now.
 
Five in fact - The Final Frontier, El Dorado, Coming Home, The Talisman, Where the Wild Wind Blows + the intro.
But I totally agree with everything you say in your last post.
 
I think we need to give Adrian a bit more credit as an adult. He disagrees with Steve's idea of the mix. Fine. Bruce disagrees with Steve on a lot of things too, but we don't see him stomping off and leaving the band just because he doesn't get it his way. These guys are all in their fifties, I think they all know how to swallow their pride and accept that when it comes to Maiden, Steve has the last word.
 
Forostar said:
Here they are, impossible to forget:
http://www.ironmaiden.com/the-final-frontier---recording-diary-by-kevin-shirley.html
Click to expand...

Actually, I don't think I'd seen these. And, of course, they are colored by Shirley's biased (in a psychological way, not a dishonest way) view.

I was referring to the video that was part of the bonus content for the deluxe edition of the Final Frontier cd (the one in the tin case). It's now available on YouTube (pasted below). In it, Adrian is visibly irritated and openly critical of the production -- starting at 14:58. Provides a different counterpoint to Kevin's notes. Assuming both are being diplomatic and soft-pedaling the tension, I get the sense there was some real disagreement.

Worth watching the whole video if you haven't seen it, especially about their descriptions of the studio in Nassau. Now you get for free what I paid an additional two dollars to get: :p

 
I think Shirley and Steve were right, with one reservation: I'd like a tad bit more delay (and more importantly, not quite as fast delay)and reverb on the vocals, more like on AMOLAD. The vocal delay sits perfectly on AMOLAD.
 
I just don't think there's any big story here. In comparison to Bruce, who's very smooth/diplomatic sounding (says all the right things, but with a little smile here & there), Adrian & Steve are just very honest. Steve talks about how useful it's been more recently (I assume post-reunion) to have Adrian really involved in writing, & taking the burden off of him. And from Shirley's diary you can see how involved Adrian is; coming back & listening to the mixes, trying to influence, etc (after all he wrote a lot of it) --nobody else seems to have been this involved. It sounds like the album was very much a Steve & Adrian affair.

I'm not sure if there's any right, or wrong. SiT (as an example, as I said previously) is an amazing sounding album. But Maiden were never really going to have Steve & Dave & Adrian all using synths on the road for the next thirty years. So it has become an album Maiden can never do justice to live; although I'm not saying it wouldn't be possible --it's just not practical to recreate this sound live (--apparently).

So when Shirley describes them eventually just going with the flat mixes (for TFF), pretty much as they sounded in the studio, I think Steve (if it was his ultimate decision) made the right choice in ensuring they could do the album justice live. They're a live band, they all talk about it --so no point in recording something that can't be gigged. I think Adrian just has a different, entirely justifiable, view --that you try things in the studio that sound right at the time, regardless of whether these will transfer to the live setting.
 
That's old news. They likely decided that the show wasn't good enough for release.
 
For some of you (and that's an old debate), Adrian is to be credited for all the good things in Maiden, and Steve has to be blamed for the rest. Are you serious ? I'm always surprised when I read some comments about "the most creative member", the "only perfectionnist", and all that stuff. I think he is GIVEN more space, but he is rightly kept under control. Has he invented Metal or what ? Is he the new Tony Iommi ? I mean, he is not even the best guitar player in Maiden, and he is certainly not the best songwriter : how could a man who has penned 3 songs on his own (yes, three !) be awarded that title. I understand unconditionnal admiration, but I cannot understand why any discussion on Maiden's music ends with a Steve bashing by some of you. Yoiu will rightly say that I myself am bashing Adrian. Yes, but Maiden is Steve's band, and that makes a huge difference.
 
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