Most underated songs
- Thread starter finalfrontier
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Sara
Not even Wensleydale?
I really do think it is that simple when you really get down to it. And the reason why that is, is personal taste is not something that needs to be justified. And nor indeed, can it be. Someone who loves a certain song will not be able to convince someone who hates the song of it's merits. Taking that into consideration, and also that the majority must dislike a song (or at least not regard it as great) in order for a legitimate claim of "underrated" to be made, then saying a majority must be convinced of an underrated song's merits really takes all the meaning out of the term "underrated".
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Well, I do appreciate it when someone explains why (s)he likes or dislikes a song. But if that someone is in a minority with a certain love for a song, then it doesn't mean that (s)he can't say the song is underrated.
I am still trying. Did you read what I said about The Apparition?
*Forostar calls the Gods of Influence casting a spell on all Unbelievers*
No, if someone happens to love a song that others don't, that doesn't make it automatically underrated. The person who loves it happens to love it is all. I don't want to go in to personal taste and whatnot, but there has to be some substance to a song, something about it, that makes it worthy of the status of "underrated"...meaning that it has something others have over-looked.
I enjoy Hooks in You. Very few others do. Would I argue its underrated? No. Its not a good song. But I like it anyway.
In other words, in the specific case of Drifter, it is up to Delta51pwned to make a case for why its special and why the rest of us should rate it higher than we do.
I enjoy Hooks in You. Very few others do. Would I argue its underrated? No. Its not a good song. But I like it anyway.
In other words, in the specific case of Drifter, it is up to Delta51pwned to make a case for why its special and why the rest of us should rate it higher than we do.
Crimson Idol
Caveman
Ever had a conversation
That you realise you've had before
Isn't it strange
Have you ever talked to someone
And you feel you know what's coming next
It feels pre-arranged
>.>
That you realise you've had before
Isn't it strange
Have you ever talked to someone
And you feel you know what's coming next
It feels pre-arranged
>.>
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
This implies that there is an objective quality to a song - in the case of an underrated song, a quality that the "others" fail to appreciate. This does not make much sense to me - in fact, on the contrary. I think the terms "overrated" and "underrated" normally should be interpreted as being even more subjective than "good" and "poor". If you happen to love a song that most others don't love, would you not say the others underrate the song? The reason why you don't find Hooks In You underrated, is because - as you say - you don't think it is a good song.
And this is what finding a song underrated is all about. Delta51pwned finds it underrated, because he thinks it is good, and he has the impression that most disagree with him. But how does this relate to the first part of your post?
Sara
Not even Wensleydale?
Yes, I also appreciate it when someone does that, and I also always do that myself. And yep, if you're in a minority who loves a song, then you can always, without exception, call a song underrated. Of course, some people will disagree with that assertion, but if people didn't disagree with it, then it wouldn't be underrated would it? lol
I have not read what you've said about "The Apparition"... what did you say about it?
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
The Apparition is so bad that Maiden renamed it (as I've pointed out) on the remastered FotD.
There it is called:-
The Apparition / Gers)
... just to cement in your mind the fact that Janick was responsible for it!
I think the song Alexander The Great and the album SiT are totally underrated...
There it is called:-
The Apparition / Gers)
... just to cement in your mind the fact that Janick was responsible for it!
I think the song Alexander The Great and the album SiT are totally underrated...
Sara
Not even Wensleydale?
You made some very interesting points there, and looking at that thread, I was quite surprised at the level of venom directed at the song. I did already know that the song generally isn't considered a favourite, and is viewed by most as a weak song, but even so, the level of contempt that most seemed to have for the song did shock me a bit.
As for my own views on "The Apparition"... Well, I've always viewed it as an awkward little song, featuring some unintentional comedic value, a bit like "Quest For Fire". I've always loved the solo section in the song, especially Janick's fiery 1st solo, whilst the bridge to the Dave Murray solo also continues the mysterious, but also quite amusing vibe of the song. I guess that's how the song has always felt to me... quite mysterious, but also a little bit silly, and the mystical ending to the song, especially the way Bruce delivers the final line, is something I've always loved. I've always felt the song had the potential to be better than it is, but I think it's a nice little song, and certainly not as bad as many fans seem to think. It's fun, a bit quirky, with an awesome solo section... so yep, I like it quite a bit!
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Thank you, Sara. I think you were actually the first who ever reacted to that input. Not that reacting is obligatory, but I am quite satisfied with the way I showed the good points of the song (and I don't think I have ever been so busy with Maiden lyrics; mostly it's just me rambling about the music), and it's strange when a whole forum ignores or overlooks this. Until now that is! And I think you made a fitting description of the music.
@Natalie: I noticed you posted something twice. Just wanted to let you know that I reacted on the first time (see top of this page) but I must say that Wingman addressed you better. Curious about your reaction to that.
@Natalie: I noticed you posted something twice. Just wanted to let you know that I reacted on the first time (see top of this page) but I must say that Wingman addressed you better. Curious about your reaction to that.
I hesitate to step in these choppy waters, but ratings are — by their very nature — an entirely subjective process.
The only way to objectively rate songs — outside a focus group with arbitrary guidelines — is through sales of that song, or the times it has been played.
Yes, that only rates a song's popularity, not its quality, but the premises of "it was good enough for someone to pay for it, or to play it" are two of the fairest we have — songs are created to touch people emotionally and people aren't going to pay for them, or play them, if they aren't touched by them on some level.
"Yeah, but that shit doesn't move them like Maiden moves me."
Which, of course, leads us to the issue of how deeply a piece of art can touch us, which is tied to human complexity. The most popular songs are the ones that resonate with the most people. But since people are different, and bring different elements of experience and biochemistry to the party, the things they are most likely to share tend to the common and superficial. It is the deeply personal that resonates the most with an individual; when an artist is able to strike a chord incredibly deeply with some, it is unlikely that artist will hit the mark with most. It's like quantifying the love of a spouse. One person's obnoxious jerk, is another's "you just don't understand him."
On forums like this we try to quantify what we like about songs and why. And we pay attention to the opinions of others and the reasons that shape their opinions. That allows us to filter musical quality through two lenses: how much we like a song, and how much we respect a song. By all the criteria I objectively try to give to my ratings, From Here To Eternity should be squashed by Seventh Son of A Seventh Son. Reading your thoughts only emphasizes that. Yet schlocky Eternity gets my head bobbing and my air guitar strumming every time, while Seventh Son is something I need to be in a specific time and place to enjoy thoroughly, and has never given me the same high. It's not the "pop" factor, because Paschendale rocks my world every single time and Hooks in You makes me cringe. I appreciate 7th Son, I just enjoy Eternity more.
I get the point Nat is making when she talks about about Hooks. In practice, I even agree with her. I always describe Eternity as a guilty pleasure.
But the fact is, I am imposing my own arbitrary criteria and the criteria of those whose opinions I value when I make the call 7th Son is better than Eternity.
If Eternity touches me more than 7th Son, then isn't it, by my standards — the purest and only really important standards of judging art — for me, a better song?
I'm not sure where all that came from. I'm supposed to be going to the grocery store.
More to the point, underrated, or overrated simply means that song is considerably worse, or better, than what the consensus states.
The simple matter is we are about a month away from having every Maiden song from 144-1 rated in order.
That will be a consensus of this board.
And if Drifter is in the 130s somewhere and it is in Delta51pwned's top 50, than he has every right to call it underrated.
(Unlike Eternity, which is not underrated, just misunderstood
)
The only way to objectively rate songs — outside a focus group with arbitrary guidelines — is through sales of that song, or the times it has been played.
Yes, that only rates a song's popularity, not its quality, but the premises of "it was good enough for someone to pay for it, or to play it" are two of the fairest we have — songs are created to touch people emotionally and people aren't going to pay for them, or play them, if they aren't touched by them on some level.
"Yeah, but that shit doesn't move them like Maiden moves me."
Which, of course, leads us to the issue of how deeply a piece of art can touch us, which is tied to human complexity. The most popular songs are the ones that resonate with the most people. But since people are different, and bring different elements of experience and biochemistry to the party, the things they are most likely to share tend to the common and superficial. It is the deeply personal that resonates the most with an individual; when an artist is able to strike a chord incredibly deeply with some, it is unlikely that artist will hit the mark with most. It's like quantifying the love of a spouse. One person's obnoxious jerk, is another's "you just don't understand him."
On forums like this we try to quantify what we like about songs and why. And we pay attention to the opinions of others and the reasons that shape their opinions. That allows us to filter musical quality through two lenses: how much we like a song, and how much we respect a song. By all the criteria I objectively try to give to my ratings, From Here To Eternity should be squashed by Seventh Son of A Seventh Son. Reading your thoughts only emphasizes that. Yet schlocky Eternity gets my head bobbing and my air guitar strumming every time, while Seventh Son is something I need to be in a specific time and place to enjoy thoroughly, and has never given me the same high. It's not the "pop" factor, because Paschendale rocks my world every single time and Hooks in You makes me cringe. I appreciate 7th Son, I just enjoy Eternity more.
I get the point Nat is making when she talks about about Hooks. In practice, I even agree with her. I always describe Eternity as a guilty pleasure.
But the fact is, I am imposing my own arbitrary criteria and the criteria of those whose opinions I value when I make the call 7th Son is better than Eternity.
If Eternity touches me more than 7th Son, then isn't it, by my standards — the purest and only really important standards of judging art — for me, a better song?
I'm not sure where all that came from. I'm supposed to be going to the grocery store.More to the point, underrated, or overrated simply means that song is considerably worse, or better, than what the consensus states.
The simple matter is we are about a month away from having every Maiden song from 144-1 rated in order.
That will be a consensus of this board.
And if Drifter is in the 130s somewhere and it is in Delta51pwned's top 50, than he has every right to call it underrated.
(Unlike Eternity, which is not underrated, just misunderstood
)
Sara
Not even Wensleydale?
You're welcome.
Well, I enjoy hearing someone else's in depth look at a certain song, particularly one which generally isn't talked about very much, as compared with the better known songs. Whether I agree or not with the points being made, doesn't matter much, I still enjoy looking at those unique song descriptions, and sometimes, seeing a different perspective to a song that I myself might not have, or share. And thank you too! xD
rocket_man
mess with me and i'll pull out my rocket on you
Killers
Innocent Exile
Paschendale
Total Eclipse
Innocent Exile
Paschendale
Total Eclipse
Sara
Not even Wensleydale?
"Killers" and "Paschendale" are both pretty much widely regarded as Maiden classics, so I don't think they could be classed as underrated...
I completely agree on the other two songs though, as they are amazing, and both are amongst my fave Maiden tracks. "Total Eclipse" totally deserved better than the b-side status that was afforded to it. It was easily good enough to make the album. ("The Number Of The Beast")
Yep. Call me elitist, but I really do think there are objective qualities to songs. Just as there are objective qualities to beauty in general. This is not to say we can't find beauty in a variety of things, but as a species we have a tendency to find certain things more beautiful than others. The same with music.
As for Drifter, subjectively Delta51 might think its underrated. The question then becomes, is it really underrated? That is, objectively. Or as objectively as we can make it. The answer, I think, is no. But as mckindog says, we as a forum community will have come up with a rating in about a month and then perhaps things will be clearer.
With yet another rating. We do this every year or so. I have to check the polls soon and do up the data.
Delta51pwned
Trooper
Personally I think its the Most Underated Song on Killers along with Innocent exile. Drifter currently Ranks 39 on my top 145 maiden songs list. And innocent exile is at 67.
And @ mckindog isnt there 145 Iron Maiden Songs?