USA Politics

Perun said:
I'll be honest, I think you're all falling in Trump's trap. He doesn't want you to talk about how US citizens are being sent to concentration camps, people who are legally in the US are being persecuted by the state or how economic stability in the western world is being obliterated, so he posts a picture of himself as Pope, and you're all talking about that instead.
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I agree 100% on the distraction and misdirection.

It’d be one thing if the economy were booming while all of the other highly questionable “stress tests” of the US constitutional framework were happening. However, his tariff moves and other statements are making the stock market and business leaders nervous.

Bright sides: he’s backing off of (for now) unconstitutional 3rd term rhetoric. To me, that would be the biggest constitutional crisis were he to try to circumvent the 22nd Amendment. The bar to change an Amendment is so high that I doubt the US could change it before the end of his term.

The mid term elections aren’t that far off: this is why I’m concerned about and hope the Democrats get their act together. A Democrat controlled congress in 2027 could reign in Trump’s final two years in office.
 
I mean, what else is there really to say in this thread? We've been talking about America's descent into fascism for ages now (remember Project 2025 and all the warnings about that?). The difference is that his supporters don't care. They are unwilling to and incapable of learning any lessons.

The racist ones are delighted that people are being deported. Others have to pretend that they love Trump's trolling (as seen on this page), since the economy is suffering and they have nothing else to point towards, to pretend their vote wasn't a mistake.
 
Globally, I understand some of the animus and resentment toward the US as a major superpower and the “world police” for the past 80 years

That said, schadenfreude is a bad look. Any country will have its uninformed population segment. Taking joy in a bad patch in American politics isn’t going to help America’s allies.

Already, US politicians have seen that branding Trump supporters as “deplorables” doesn’t work. It doesn’t win voters and further divides the populace. Most Americans are against racism. The main difference of opinion is in how racism is addressed.

The remedy to Trump’s populism would be to for the Democrats to propose less inflammatory and more reasonable solutions than Trump’s camp does to address the grievances that got Trump elected.
 
Sheriff_of_Huddersfield said:
Taking joy in a bad patch in American politics isn’t going to help America’s allies.
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...and who are those these days? Russia? Israel? El Salvador? I think they've had enough help.

Sheriff_of_Huddersfield said:
Most Americans are against racism.
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Most of the 2,788 people polled in this study are against racism.

Sheriff_of_Huddersfield said:
The remedy to Trump’s populism would be to for the Democrats to propose less inflammatory and more reasonable solutions than Trump’s camp does to address the grievances that got Trump elected.
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In theory, you're correct. But you're talking policy. And the majority of people voting with the loudest voices don't care. They don't even research it. They're voting for the next American Idol.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
...and who are those these days? Russia? Israel? El Salvador? I think they've had enough help.


Most of the 2,788 people polled in this study are against racism.


In theory, you're correct. But you're talking policy. And the majority of people voting with the loudest voices don't care. They don't even research it. They're voting for the next American Idol.
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And so, what? Run around shrieking instead?

You’re right — most people aren’t informed or thoughtful enough to vote policy. That said, at least acknowledge and have a response for issues the unwashed masses seem to care about.

Yeah, surveys are like that.

Dude, fun quip. I meant America’s traditional allies and trade partners which is pretty much been all but maybe 7-8 countries since the 1990s.
 
The point is that we're alienating our allies because of Donald Trump. And we're not alienating even the ones the most progressive of voters would call "questionable", we're alienating fucking Canada. The "uninformed population segment" is literally running the country and running the media. No one is taking joy in it except the ones perpetrating this farce.

Better policies aren't going to win new ground for the Democrats. It will help, sure, but not enough. As long as Trump still has his hooks in the Republican party, the only hope the Democrats have is to find someone incredibly popular and charming - another Obama (although probably not in today's climate as we're now more openly racist than we were even ten years ago) or Bill Clinton.
 
I'm not gonna cast judgement on an entire nation; such a thing is impossible. But seeing stories like this recent one:


Where a white woman had a meltdown and hurled racial slurs (with the hard R) at a kid, and then managed to raise half a million dollars... Well, it certainly shows that racism is still a major issue in America. And that's before we start talking about the dogwhistles like DEI.

Also, to clarify: I'm not experiencing schadenfreude. I'm seeing that all the warnings I gave to certain posters are coming true and things are getting even worse than we originally feared. It's not "being mean" that divides the population. It's a huge chunk being fine with fascism as long as it is painted red, that divides people. Instead of getting the progressives to give in and compromise with thr far right, who is actively trying to limit the rights of American citizens, how about you put some pressure to the conservatives to show a tiny shred of integrity and put their country before their party affiliation.

We are talking about adult human beings who have to deal with the consequences of their actions. I'm sick and tired of people infantilizing conservatives who fucked up. We've been screaming and warning them about everything that is happening right now for years. Maybe it's time for them to finally listen for once. Aren't they the ones in favor of "personal responsibility"?
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
The point is that we're alienating our allies because of Donald Trump. And we're not alienating even the ones the most progressive of voters would call "questionable", we're alienating fucking Canada. The "uninformed population segment" is literally running the country and running the media. No one is taking joy in it except the ones perpetrating this farce.

Better policies aren't going to win new ground for the Democrats. It will help, sure, but not enough. As long as Trump still has his hooks in the Republican party, the only hope the Democrats have is to find someone incredibly popular and charming - another Obama (although probably not in today's climate as we're now more openly racist than we were even ten years ago) or Bill Clinton.
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I don’t disagree. Yes, they need someone charismatic who can deliver an easy to digest message that doesn’t sound like a Harvard political science essay or something Judith Butler wrote.

The sky is falling just a little bit.

Of course, Trump is doing and saying inflammatory things that understandably piss off and worry America’s allies.

My comment on schadenfreude is directed at people from other countries who seem to take joy (or at least enjoy feeling superior) to the US’s predicament, which doesn’t benefit them, either.
 
Sheriff_of_Huddersfield said:
My comment on schadenfreude is directed at people from other countries who seem to take joy (or at least enjoy feeling superior) to the US’s predicament, which doesn’t benefit them, either.
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Is that something you are seeing in this thread at the moment? Because none of us are happy with Trump's shitshow, I can tell you that much.
 
Here’s an NYT video article on the mid-term elections, the challenges the Democrats will face, and their potential strategies

I know, Bad Orange Man = Americans all so stupid (that’s the schadenfreude I referred to). But someone might find it informative or interesting.

Backing Independents in states where the Democrat brand is unwelcome isn’t the worst idea I’ve heard.
 
Sheriff_of_Huddersfield said:
Here’s an NYT video article on the mid-term elections, the challenges the Democrats will face, and their potential strategies. Backing Independents in states where the Democrat brand is unwelcome isn’t the worst idea I’ve heard.
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I'm absolutely in favor of independents filling the government. In a perfect country, neither party would have a majority and those independent votes would be incredibly important. But for that perfect country to exist you'd also have to have Republicans in those seats who aren't greedy, evil, incompetently idiotic people. Not sure those exist in today's Republican party.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
I'm absolutely in favor of independents filling the government. In a perfect country, neither party would have a majority and those independent votes would be incredibly important. But for that perfect country to exist you'd also have to have Republicans in those seats who aren't greedy, evil, incompetently idiotic people. Not sure those exist in today's Republican party.
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I really wish we had more political choices than the two parties.
 
Sheriff_of_Huddersfield said:
I really wish we had more political choices than the two parties.
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The two-party system leads to extremes, not only are the policies more or less randomly decided (I mean, why should "socially conservative" automatically mean "economically liberal"?) but in this opposition, they influence each other and falling deeper and deeper into the grotesque and the parody. There is absolutely no space for compromise, all that politics amount to is merely yelling louder why my party is right (which it can't be, because of the aforementioned randomness of the positions it must sustain under the party policy) and it leads nowhere.

Combine that with social media and post-modern, post-factual, post-covid society and you get what you get.

The plurality of political suspects might lead to more deadlocks and might be considerably less effective, but it would force the parties to go out of their bubble, discuss and argue, possibly even reach compromises. I mean, I often complain about my country's politics, but all things considered, I'm actually happy with what we have, because it ultimately feels less hopeless.
 
Sheriff_of_Huddersfield said:
I know, Bad Orange Man = Americans all so stupid (that’s the schadenfreude I referred to). But someone might find it informative or interesting.
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Uuuh... that's not what Schadenfreude means lol

I agree that the US would be far better off with more parties being in play and having to form coalitions to encourage compromises.

At the moment you have the Dems, who as flawed as they are actually have some kind of policies they stand behind. And then there's the GOP that has no integrity or consistency in any way and seems to purely exist out of spite. And to usher in the rise of fascism that's currently happening, that needs to be emphasized whenever we talk about them.
 
schadenfreude /shäd′n-froi″də/

noun​

  1. Pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others.
  2. Malicious enjoyment derived from observing someone else's misfortune.
  3. Delight in another person's misfortune.

As in “haha, looking at those stupid Americans with their crazy leader. They are so fucked. Those idiots! Haha, their misfortune brings me a joyous sense of superiority because I don’t live there.”
 
Sheriff_of_Huddersfield said:
schadenfreude /shäd′n-froi″də/

noun​

  1. Pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others.
  2. Malicious enjoyment derived from observing someone else's misfortune.
  3. Delight in another person's misfortune.

As in “haha, looking at those stupid Americans with their crazy leader. They are so fucked. Those idiots! Haha, their misfortune brings me a joyous sense of superiority because I don’t live there.”
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I'm not sure what about my post made you read it as this, but in any case, it's not the case, just to be clear. I would much rather US being okay with a working political system and with a prominent party which I wouldn't find despicable in one way or another.

I compared it with the plurality system which we have and which I think is better, but certainly not in that way like "ha ha, gotcha", if you took it that way, then I'm sorry. I certainly don't think what you say here, I'm not even happy that Trump won because it did "own the progressives" (although that is a very small - and ultimately useless - comfort). I wish the country would get better, really.
 
JudasMyGuide said:
I'm not sure what about my post made you read it as this, but in any case, it's not the case, just to be clear. I would much rather US being okay with a working political system and with a prominent party which I wouldn't find despicable in one way or another.

I compared it with the plurality system which we have and which I think is better, but certainly not in that way like "ha ha, gotcha", if you took it that way, then I'm sorry. I certainly don't think what you say here, I'm not even happy that Trump won because it did "own the progressives" (although that is a very small - and ultimately useless - comfort). I wish the country would get better, really.
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That wasn’t a reply to you, Judasmyguide — I generally like your posts.

Maybe I’m being a little bit of a defensive Yank but I think a lot of people around the world like to see the US taken down a notch or two and I understand why.

It’s just — this political thing in our country right now is unpleasant for many of us who disagree with our country’s direction and have anxiety over how it will all turn out.

And some Americans like the direction, that’s part of living in a democracy (or Republic, really). I personally have nothing against them (or anyone). I just wish we’d shift closer to the middle and move on as a country.

Make politics boring again, please!
 
Well, like I said, in my country we have this tendency to see the US as a cautionary tale nowadays - although as people and their worldviews differ, we do not agree what is the warning here and how it all came to be. We see something is very wrong, we see that it happened frighteningly quickly and that there seems to be no end in sight - and honestly it's baffling, because many still remember thirty years ago, when we were freshly free (after the Communist regime fell), we were looking towards the US in everything. I mean, the visuals of TV news broadcast, the Coca-Cola, Bruce Springsteen, Bill Clinton playing the sax with our former president, we actually made some amendments to our voting system to bring it slightly closer to the US one (too complex and too miniscule to go into, just take my word for it) and so on.

In fact, to this day we tend to inadvertently copy some of US ways, even long after they have been slowly going out of style there (like the über-corporate culture, that one tends to have its pinnacles with significant latency after actual Western companies stop doing it).

And then it all goes to shit and some people here even speculate about potential US civil war and we're not exactly sure how it happened.

But even people who really hate the two-party system and who hate US's obsession with itself and both US progressivism and its redneckishness (I am guilty of all of these) are really not happy about it. I haven't met anyone having Schadenfreude, to be sure, bar a possible online troll or two.

Sheriff_of_Huddersfield said:
Make politics boring again, please!
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Indeed!

EDIT:
Oh,

Sheriff_of_Huddersfield said:
I think a lot of people around the world like to see the US taken down a notch or two and I understand why.
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I mean, kinda? But this is not the way, first of all it's too depressing and destabilising ("taken down a notch" doesn't mean "completely dismantled"), second of all, nobody seems to be actually willing to take any lessons from it and improve, which makes all taking down a notch utterly futile.
 
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