chaosapiant
Ancient Marinade
-10 points for not mentioning that Time Machine was on the Wayne's World soundtrack. For shame.
Black Sabbath
- Thread starter Raven
- Start date
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Oh, lol. It's fine. Maybe from a guitar standpoint it's super intricate but it doesn't rip me out of my seat any time it comes on.
I haven't even listened to the Wayne's World version. Is it better than the album version? I wasn't blown away by the Heavy Metal version of "Mob Rules" so I skipped over this one.
chaosapiant
Ancient Marinade
I just assumed it was the same song either way. But I grew up with that soundtrack having never heard the album until the last couple years. Good tune! It's good stuff.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Cross Purposes (1994)
1. I Witness - Bobby Rondinelli wakes us up before the rest of the band jumps in and off we go speeding through the desert! After the heavy doom of Dehumanizer, "I Witness" is like a back-to-basics heavy rock song that sits in a pretty zippy groove for most of its runtime and executes it really well. Tony Martin returns with vocals that are a lot lower than what he's done before, but by the time the pre-chorus comes around he's back in the swing of things. I love his soulful delivery of the melody there. The actual chorus is the one time the song deviates from that groove and brings back the signature Sabbath stomp. Lots of fun, even the little tease back into the riff at the end puts a smile on my face. It's never gonna go down as one of Sabbath's definitive songs but it's a great opener. 8/10
2. Cross of Thorns - Dark, quiet opening and Martin is mournfully warning you not to tread upon this unhallowed ground. This track feels like the album cover come to life. The chorus is fantastic, Martin puts his soul into it and ughh I love his voice. He isn't hitting insane high notes on this album, instead we get to really hear him croon his heart away and it's awesome. I feel like I'd like one more chorus reprise from this track but as a whole this is another great song. 8/10
3. Psychophobia - This track is pretty clearly inspired by the grunge scene. It would be easy to write this one off as Sabbath attempting to sound hip and cool with the kids but I really really like Iommi's riffing throughout this song. Weaker vocal melodies that are kinda shoved together but hey, I'm still having fun here. I thought the line "It's time to kiss the rainbow goodbye" was a reference to Dio but apparently this song is about Waco. Really venomous lyrics about religion here. A little one-dimensional but I think it's a good song! 7/10
4. Virtual Death - "Life's a never-ending wheel," so it's pretty cool that bands influenced by Sabbath were now influencing Sabbath. This is another grungy track that's practically an Alice in Chains song, right down to the apathetic doubled vocals. Sabbath's trademark doom sound is stretching its wings and trying out one of their apprentice's interpretations. I think that's neat! Very slow song, Rondinelli's drumming is super clean as he keeps a methodical beat. Iommi's riff is so dark and evil. Love Martin's voice on the title line. Good stuff, not as good as Alice in Chains themselves but it's awesome to hear things come full-circle in this kind of way. 7/10
5. Immaculate Deception - Stomping, almost proggy riff drives this song. Martin is playing with mists and shadows again but as he utters the title things begin to pick up the pace. This is another song that benefits from his incredible voice. Love his passionate delivery of the pre-chorus and the chorus itself. His soaring peak with the final line after the solo is godly. Speaking of the solo, some of Iommi's solos in the past have kinda reminded me of what Dave Murray would do later on with Iron Maiden, and this one feels like it's straight off The X Factor - although that might be because the guitar on this album is mixed a little too cleanly and without the grit that we're so used to from Sabbath. Anyway, by the time this one comes to a close I'm super into it. It feels a little unfinished but it has so many great elements within it. 8/10
6. Dying for Love - On first listen "Dying for Love" feels like a cleaner successor to "Feels Good to Me" from Tyr. But man, the more I hear it the more I love it. Opening with a bluesy solo from Iommi, he switches gears to a really beautiful, sparkling, distortionless riff that provides the stage for Tony Martin to lay down an utterly flawless performance. I mean, a power ballad like this really shouldn't work as well as it does, right? But Martin is just so caught up by the music that I can't help but be moved by him. "All that's left... IS YOU AND ME!" FUCK. The lyrics are a very '90s, lighter-in-the-air, call for peace in a world stricken by war. I guess beyond stealing that Scorpions single cover they also had to rewrite "Wind of Change", eh? The guitar interlude here sounds like what Steve Harris would incorporate 27 years later on "Hell on Earth". Just an excellent ballad with a superb performance from Mr. Martin that drives it all the way home. 9/10
7. Back to Eden - This is the hidden gem on the album. Fucking groovy riff gets me jiving immediately. Lyrically it's a continuation of the themes from the previous track, only now they're rockin' instead of pleading. The chorus is one of my favorite moments on the whole album. Smooth as hell, super fun, and Martin executes it like he does this shit in his sleep. Kinda wish the song ended on those vibes instead of returning to the riff but it's another great track. 8/10
8. The Hand That Rocks the Cradle - It's a little odd to hear the makings of a ballad again so soon after "Dying for Love", but credit to the band because the intro to this track is gorgeous. Love the guitar work and Martin's voice is dripping in quiet emotion. The intro disappears and suddenly we're fully engaged in a kick-ass rock song. I had to look up the meaning to these lyrics because they're pretty vivid. Turns out it's about a nurse who killed infants in the '90s?? Jesus Chriiiist. Chorus is awesome and so is the guitar solo. This is a song that grows on me every time I hear it. Great stuff. 8/10
9. Cardinal Sin - This one starts out like Sabbath's take on Led Zeppelin's "Kashmir", completely with a stomping groove and orchestral keyboards married to the guitar. It's pretty cool. I don't think this song comes quite to the heights of a lot of the others here, though. There's no really standout hook and the faster section at the end is just alright. Lyrically I guess this one is going after the Catholic church? Good song, but not one of the album's highlights. 7/10
10. Evil Eye - What better way to end this album than with one of the perennial Iommi blues tracks? This song just ain't it for me. Martin is solid as ever (although he strains to hit the super high notes here), but there's almost nothing about this song that stands out. The chorus is a dud. The one thing I like though is the bridge, where the guitar drops out and we get to hear Geezer's groove as Martin digs really deep to deliver a killer vocal. Otherwise this song is pretty average, shame we had to go out like this. And co-written by Eddie Van Halen, too? Shiiiit. If ever there was a band less hot than Sabbath was in the '90s, it was Van Halen. Not to mention - y'all wrote a song called "Evil Eye" without Dio?? And lyrically it's "Lady Evil 2: This Time Boring"?? What are you doing Tony?! What are you doing??? 5/10
OVERALL
Cross Purposes doesn't reach the heights of Headless Cross or Tyr, but nonetheless I find it a super enjoyable album that holds up with repeated listens. It's nice to hear Tony Martin again, his voice is great as always, and working with Geezer for the first (and only) time makes this is a pretty interesting experience. Geezer's basswork is kind of overshadowed by everyone else, but if you listen closely he's back there doing what he does best and you love to hear it. Bobby Rondinelli gives a pristine performance on the drums - nothing flashy, but exactly what the songs need. And of course Tony Iommi is cranking out riffs like the GOAT that he is and Geoff Nicholls adds the perfect amount of texture within every song.
It's not one of Sabbath's best, but it's a fun rock/metal album with a dash of grungy influence thrown in, and super consistent throughout (until the last track). I would take this over a couple classics and even - dare I say it - over Dehumanizer. Knick, please don't kick my ass!
Total: 75%
BONUS
• What's the Use - Fun song, cool chorus. 7/10
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
If you’re picking Cross Purposes over Dehumanizer, you’re already doing a pretty good job kicking your own ass.
The_7th_one
Ancient Mariner
Great reviews!!!
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Cross Purposes Live (1995)
Ozzy and Dio are two of the most iconic vocalists in metal history. Both of them have unique voices that changed the game and inspired millions of fans and singers in the years since they first took up the mic. Their stints in Black Sabbath revolutionized metal as an art form. So it would be really easy to look at Tony Martin, a guy who recorded music with Sabbath at their lowest point in popularity, and write him off as some faceless dude who did the job, sure, but it would’ve been better to have Ozzy or Dio in the studio instead.
However, that, to me, is clearly not the case at all when it comes to his work in the studio. The Eternal Idol isn’t his best performance, but by the time they regrouped for Headless Cross and he was writing his own lyrics and vocal melodies, he lit a fuse and laid down one of the coolest vocal performances I have ever heard on an album. Then he did the same thing on Tyr - a song like “Anno Mundi” is just spell-binding. Even on Cross Purposes, which holds back the bombast, Martin is in full force, using his passionate, soulful singing to elevate what could have easily been lesser material.
All that is to say, Tony Martin is my favorite singer Black Sabbath has had. But if you were only exposed to Cross Purposes Live, I could see why you’d write him off.
The CD (which is what I listened to) omits three tracks that were on the VHS (“Anno Mundi”, “The Mob Rules”, and “Neon Knights”) so I hope that they include this record as part of the new Sabbath remasters and give it the double CD it deserves. It’s a fun record. It’s nice to hear the band (the two Tonys, plus Geezer and Nicholls and Bobby Rondinelli) playing through material from each of their eras. It’s mostly comprised of Ozzy material (“The Wizard” gets played for the first time since 1971), but it also has some Dio songs (“Time Machine” is the concert opener), Martin material, and three new songs from Cross Purposes itself.
The biggest thing about this album is that Martin just isn’t in his element. Having done some reading, he was sick during this tour and that really shows. It’s not like he doesn’t wanna be there, but you can tell that he’s not pushing himself hard for obvious reasons. No sense in overexerting yourself and then permanently ruining your voice. A lot of the higher lines he changes so he can sing it in a lower key.
The effect that this has basically makes it feel like a tribute to Black Sabbath rather than simply being Black Sabbath. It’s unfortunate, because I’ve heard some bootlegs from 1990 where the man is singing like he does in studio and it’s awesome. Shame then that their only live album with him can’t deliver the same grace.
With that said, I think I like this album about the same as Live Evil. I think Martin sounds a little better than Dio on the Ozzy tracks, songs like “Into the Void”, “Black Sabbath”, and “The Wizard” are really fun. Plus the three tunes from Cross Purposes all work really well live and I kinda wish they played more from this album. A song like “Back to Eden” would have killed.
But yeah, like Live Evil this one’s a bit of a mixed bag for me. Like I said with that album, I’ll probably mostly stick with studio Sabbath stuff in future listens.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Forbidden (1995)
NOTE: I gave the original album a spin first so I could properly hear the difference between how it sounded in 1995 and how it sounds now with Tony Iommi's new remix. I don't hate the original mix, but it's definitely a haze. The remix doesn't fix the songs themselves but it is good to hear a lot more clarity. All of my comments in this post will be based on the remix.
1. The Illusion of Power - The intro to this song is super epic with a vaguely eastern melody. For a moment I'm almost thinking that maybe the haters are wrong and this is a misunderstood dark horse album. Then the actual riff comes in and it's some trite shit that sounds like Black Sabbath watered down. How do I like my Sabbath? Black. Maybe a little cream, maybe a little sugar. But this is straight up piss. My boy Tony Martin stumbles in from the backdoor and I'm all excited to hear what he has to sing and... Tony... Tony... are, are you trying to rap? Lord Jesus white boy please dear god no... What a bum opener. I don't hate this song but it's absolutely tedious and goes nowhere. If it were shorter and just an intro to the rest of the album it might be okay, but it's nearly five minutes long, the hook sucks, the guitarwork is rote, and the only bright spot is Ice-T's guest appearance. Here's a guy that's actually got the voice for this (although this material is still beneath him). Martin is just wasting his time and his talents here. I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed. Sabbath's worst album opener by far. 3/10
2. Get a Grip - Another dud. This one's just sad. Tony Martin is actually singing here but he's completely checked out at this point. "That ain't nice!" Thank you for the stunning social commentary, man. This all sounds so b-league. You're telling me this was the same lineup that recorded Tyr? What the fuck. "Here we go!" yells Martin, and then we don't. His vocals in this outro sound like Paul Di'Anno after a couple beers. Fuck man, they even gave this one a music video. It's not... baaaad, but I really expect better from this band and especially these players. 3/10
3. Can't Get Close Enough - This one starts out as a sleepy ballad and turns into a rocker part way through. The vocal melodies are really, really uninteresting but Tony Martin at least puts a minutia of effort into his singing here. He still sounds one-dimensional compared to his four previous albums with the band, though. The heavy part really feels like Iommi wanting to sound hip and cool with the kids who have traded in their Sabbath tapes for Pantera CDs. Ugh. It's better than the previous two but it's still not very good. 4/10
4. Shaking Off the Chains - This guitar has some crunch to it, which is cool, but the riff still sounds stale. Martin's vocal melody is literally just the riff, rhythmically and tonally, and there is no passion anywhere. The chorus is trash, an unpleasant warning alarm thrown into a drunken maelstrom with Martin just shouting over it. Fucking hell. The fire has clearly all burned out, Iommi's solo at the end is one of the most phoned-in things he's ever recorded. Sabbath have two songs with the word "chain" in the title, and both of them suck. 2/10
5. I Won't Cry for You - A power ballad that sounds like it's attempting to do what "Dying for Love" did on the previous album but it just isn't the same. Iommi's playing isn't as magical, Martin's voice isn't as passionate. The pre-chorus has the tiniest hint of life gleaming in it, but everything else still sounds so tired. The chorus is annoyingly repetitive. Goddammit. I feel like a just sat through 5 minutes and 25 seconds of nothing. 4/10
6. Guilty as Hell - What can I even say at this point? They're just shitting things out and hoping that the turd isn't diarrheal. Tony Martin drops the ugliest vocal performance he's done to date. Was this man chain-smoking Marlboros between Cross Purposes and Forbidden? What the fuck? I would be content in calling this song a rough, uninteresting stomper that goes nowhere if they had left off that fucking bridge. Martin is back to shouting and drops the band's first F-bomb and nobody clapped, nobody cared. Iommi doesn't even try to do a solo on this one. Jesus Christ. 2/10
7. Sick and Tired - Cozy tries to recreate his iconic "Stargazer" intro on a song that does not need a "Stargazer" intro. This track is just "Cloak and Dagger" but boring. At least the song title is a good descriptor for the experience of listening to this album. Look, it's fine, whatever, I don't care. Legitimately yawned when it wrapped up. 4/10
8. Rusty Angels - Holy shit, is that actually a proper fucking RIFF???? Iommi finally pulls something out of his ass that has me hooked, hell he's even got some Jimmy Page swagger in there just to show off. Martin's voice is still rough but at least something is happening. This song rumbles along like a freight train and ughhhh I've sat through seven fucking songs waiting for something like this to finally hit me. Was it worth it? No, but at least I'm here now. The verses are pumping, the chorus is simple (more daft lyrics) but I love the melody to it, the sparkling clean guitar behind it is such a nice touch. It also doesn't overstay its welcome. This is a good song still held back by the weaknesses of the album but a good song nonetheless. I'll fucking take it. 7/10
9. Forbidden - The dynamics of the previous track are gone here but the title track is actually a cut above most of the album. Martin genuinely sounds alright on this one, more soul in his voice than we've heard since "The Illusion of Power" began playing. He's still just singing the riff on this chorus, and it's repeated a bit too much, but otherwise this song is pretty solid! Okay, scratch that, I'm docking a point because I hate the "UOOGH" sound Martin retches twice here. Iommi also phones in another solo. 5/10
10. Kiss of Death - I was pretty worried on my first listen that the 6+ minute closer lying in wait at the end of the album was basically going to be Everything Wrong With Forbidden But 6 Minutes Long, yet from the minute "Kiss of Death" started I was completely caught off guard by just how GOOD this song is. The quiet intro wriggles its way into view and Tony Martin actually sounds great here. The bursts of heaviness are like a supernova, and the song uses a ton of build up before we get anywhere close to the chorus. When that chorus hits, it hits fucking hard. Close to chills. The vocal melody is kinda stock but everything about the build-up to that moment really makes it click. The song also speeds up at the end which is a super nice touch, although I wish it stayed here a bit longer. I feel like this track is at least missing a solo but all the individual parts are great. In a way it's like a return to "Eternal Idol" but with the big powerful hook that that song was missing. I'm so happy that the band locked in for one fucking moment on this album and Tony Martin got to end his final record with the band on a high, fucking, note. This is a great song, album be damned. 8/10
OVERALL
Forbidden is definitely a record that exists. You can listen to it. I'm not really sure why you would want to, though, at least not when you can play pretty much any other Black Sabbath album. Barring two songs that are actually pretty good, the material here is the least exciting they've ever done. No one in the band sounds like they're actually invested. I know Iommi was pretty pissed about the production but his own music feels like he's just trying to push this out to clear his record contract.
The sad thing is that none of these songs are awful, there's nothing as bad as "Keep It Warm" on here. They're all just really lame and there's no spark from anybody (I guess Neil Murray is alright on the bass). Tony Iommi plays stock riffs. Tony Martin doesn't even try to write a decent vocal melody or lyric. What an utter disappointment. It's also weirdly lopsided. The other bland Sabbath records started out with their best material and then devolved as the albums went on. Forbidden hides its best work at the very end after you've already given up with the rest of the album.
It's not hard to understand why this was the end of the Martin era. Black Sabbath had lost the plot and clearly needed to shut this whole thing down before it got worse. A real shame because the other four albums that Martin did with Sabbath are probably my favorite era in the band's career.
Simply put, Iommi had forgotten how to write new music and it's no wonder then that come the end of the decade he would be much more interested in reliving the past with Ozzy, Geezer, and Ward. Fuck me. I need a spirit or something.
Total: 41%
BONUS
• Loser Gets It All - Man, why wasn't this song on the actual fucking album? It's actually pretty solid with a nice groove and a better performance than Tony Martin did almost anywhere across the actual record. Even in allocating bonus tracks they fucked it up, SHIT! 6/10
Confeos
Game time started.
Toss out "The Illusion of Power", which is the only song here I actively dislike, for "Loser Gets It All" and Forbidden would be a better, though still very much sub-par album.
"Kiss of Death" is my favourite and the only true A-tier song here, but I do enjoy "Guilty as Hell" too (the riff is great). The rest is more or less forgettable.
"Kiss of Death" is my favourite and the only true A-tier song here, but I do enjoy "Guilty as Hell" too (the riff is great). The rest is more or less forgettable.
KidInTheDark666
What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine too
I like this album, the title track actually makes it into my top 25 Sabbath songs.
Kalata
Out of the Silent Planet
Forbidden benefits from the remaster (the guitar tone is cool) and I enjoy a few songs like ''I Won't Cry For You'', ''Rusty Angels'', the title track and the closer. Riffs (''Shaking Off The Chains one is one of their best!) and solos are on point, but overall material isn't strong or memorable enough imo. It's similar to Cross Purposes, although there's a bit more strong material and use of sounds.
I definitely prefer their approach (to say) than Dehumanizer - it's really heavy, but I like about the same amount of songs as the above albums. Overall it's probably better, but not by much. I like half of them.
I definitely prefer their approach (to say) than Dehumanizer - it's really heavy, but I like about the same amount of songs as the above albums. Overall it's probably better, but not by much. I like half of them.
With that chorus I can see why.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Really? I think Cross Purposes is heads and tails above Forbidden from almost every standard. The riffs hit harder and the vocals are great.
Kalata
Out of the Silent Planet
The collection of songs and vocals overall are better, yes. Tony's riffs during the Martin era are as strong as his old stuff. Riff master for a reason. His solos too, I think they should be praised and you have to admit that solo/s or a short melodic interlude improve the songs.
^Agreed. Tony is a great vocalist and sounds good singing songs from all eras of the band. He made ''Time Machine'' (kind of an odd opener) as if it is a song written with him.