What Do You Think Maiden Could Do Better Next Album/tour

Blood Brothers is a great song! Clumsy lyrics? maybe I should give it another listen. Hell Everything on BNW is brilliant and "the thin line between love and hate" makes a great closer. I for one LOVE long songs as long as they are not repetitive or seem to go nowhere and so far Maiden has done neither so let the long songs continue! Plus they rarely write "short" songs, I think they're average song length is like 5 minutes. Radio friendly tracks are between 3-4.
 
The lyrics of "Blood Brothers" may be cheesy to some, but to some others, they have a personal meaning.
I'm always careful to make ultimate judgements.
 
I don't have anything to say on their next album when I think everything after Fear of the Dark has been very good indeed with a few exceptions...

For the next tour on the other hand:

1: Ditch Fear of the Dark!
2: Let Wrathchild and Run to the Hills rest for at least this tour and replace them with Another Life, Prowler or something in those lines
3: Play two songs from X-factor/VXI and let al least one of them be one previously unheard with Bruce.
4: It's time to bring back som Powerslave-No Prayer stuff, maybe play Powerslave, Heaven Can Wait, The Evil That Men do and No Prayer for the Dying or Public Enema Number One.
5: Play the stuff that we know will be in the set (like Hallowed, Trooper and Number) early in the show? What's the point of an encore when you know what's coming?



Ok, and then I have some wishes:

1: Play Alexander the Great!
2: Play Ghost of the Navigator
3: Play Dance of Death and Pachendale on one more tour at least
4: I would love to hear Lord of the Flies again
5: Play Drifter in the encore and do the 'yo yoy yo'-part!!!
 
Leather_Rebel's suggestion for a setlist:

1. Another Life
2. Prowler
3. Lord Of The Flies
4. Song from VXI
5. Powerslave
6. Heaven Can Wait
7. The Evil That Men Do
8. No Prayer For The Dying/Public Enema Number One
9. Hallowed Be Thy Name
10. The Trooper
11. The Number Of The Beast
12. Alexander The Great
13. Ghost Of The Navigator
14. Dance Of Death
15. Paschendale
16. Drifter

16 songs, the same number as on the DOD tour. Do you want to hear any new material? ::
 
[!--quoteo(post=131152:date=Mar 8 2006, 08:04 AM:name=Perun)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Perun @ Mar 8 2006, 08:04 AM) [snapback]131152[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
The lyrics of "Blood Brothers" may be cheesy to some, but to some others, they have a personal meaning.
I'm always careful to make ultimate judgements.
[/quote]
My point is that not that the lyrics are bad, but that they are in places poorly put together for singing. Just like in some places in Dance of Death, Steve has written lyrics that are often clumsy for Bruce or whoever to sing. I think that: [!--QuoteBegin-Blood Brothers+--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Blood Brothers)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Will we ever know what the answer to life really is?
Can you really tell me what life is?
Maybe all the things that you know that are precious to you?
Could be swept away by fate's own hand[/quote]
Is particularly clumsy and difficult for Bruce to sing. He has to speed up the whole meter of the song, just vocally, for that one part, and it makes it sound slightly out of place.
 
You're right, the part you quoted does sound a bit out of place. It has never bothered me, though.
 
I've always considered Steve to be average as a lyric writer on the whole. There's some gems in his lyrical catalogue but there's also quite a few really uninspired and dull pieces, with lines and that feel completely out of place, tongue-twisting vocal melodies and repetitive structures. Then there's stuff like Alexander the Great which sounds like it was copied and pasted from a grade school history book.

For the next album, most of all I'd like to be surprised. While Dance of Death has palled horribly for me over time, at least some of it was different from the band's earlier efforts and I'd like to see that continue. It'll be interesting to see if Maiden can still produce something new at this stage in their career.

Of course there are details I'd like to change. For instance, I think they need to get a better balance between shorter and longer songs, write less repetitive songs, leave the lyric writing primarily to Bruce and get a better production. But that's just my opinion and there's probably lots of fan with completely different wishes.
 
I am surprised when fans describe the band as being in a new 'golden era'. Yes the band is very strong live, Bruce’s voice is fantastic and the boys have written some good songs since the reunion, but they have not produced a classic album. Brave New World only seemed fantastic until the novelty wore off. Dance of Death did have some interesting elements but it also had a strong whiff of 90s left-overs about it. However, I can understand, if BNW or DOD was the first Maiden album you heard, why you'd think it was brilliant. I remain perplexed by those mad people who refer to 'Fillerslave'. Losfer Words is brilliant! [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":D\" border=\"0\" alt=\"biggrin.gif\" /]

I agree with Shadow that lyrics should be left to Bruce (and Adrian) and I would like Steve to break out of his Clansman/No More Lies formula. I must admit that I have grown to love No More Lies - except for the triple solo part - but most of the long songs on BNW and DOD bore me after a while, especially the over-egged Blood Brothers. The energy (and sheer brilliance of the riffs) of the 80s epics is missing, though even in the 80s Steve didn't always get it right, i.m.o. To Tame a Land and Alexander the Great just don't work. On the new album I'd like to hear more shortish and up-tempo tracks, more Montsegur-type heaviness, and less of the 70s prog rock element. It's gone too far! Also, less of the samey Dave and Janick solos. You could cut and paste them from song to song and not always notice the difference.

I'm all for progression in Maiden's sound. When I got into Maiden in '87 the first albums I heard were the debut and Powerslave. The albums are quite different yet both definitely Maiden. However, since No Prayer it seems like the band haven’t really been moving forward musically. Perhaps 7th Son was the creative highpoint. If Maiden really were in a new golden era there wouldn't be this kind of debate.
 
[!--quoteo(post=131210:date=Mar 8 2006, 04:06 PM:name=Parmenion)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Parmenion @ Mar 8 2006, 04:06 PM) [snapback]131210[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
I am surprised when fans describe the band as being in a new 'golden era'. Yes the band is very strong live, Bruce’s voice is fantastic and the boys have written some good songs since the reunion, but they have not produced a classic album. Brave New World only seemed fantastic until the novelty wore off. Dance of Death did have some interesting elements but it also had a strong whiff of 90s left-overs about it. However, I can understand, if BNW or DOD was the first Maiden album you heard, why you'd think it was brilliant. I remain perplexed by those mad people who refer to 'Fillerslave'. Losfer Words is brilliant! [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":D\" border=\"0\" alt=\"biggrin.gif\" /]
[/quote]

I actually started listening to Maiden in the mid-80's and I think that BNW is comparable to anything from the so-called "golden era." 6 years later, and I still love that album -- every time I listen to it I hear something I hadn't noticed before. At least half of the songs on the album have been my "favorite" at one point or another -- that is one of the surest measures of a great album! DoD, I agree, is not as good. Paschendale is as good as anything Maiden has ever done, but the rest of the album hasn't aged well for me.

I agree that the lyrics should be left to Bruce and Adrian -- though if Steve could write more lyrics like 'Sign of the Cross' or 'Ancient Mariner' I would be quite happy.

Over all, I guess I really like the direction Maiden has taken on the last two albums towards progressive metal. I would like to see that continue.



[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--] If Maiden really were in a new golden era there wouldn't be this kind of debate.
[/quote]

That is certainly false. I remember there was a lot of dissatisfaction back in '86 with the direction Maiden took on Somewhere in Time and later on 7th son. I confess I also didn't particularly like those albums when they first came out, but they have aged pretty well, especially 7th son. So the fact that there is a thread on an Iron Maiden MB about what fans would like to see the band do differently next time around doesn't mean that we won't look back on these days as a second "golden era."
 
[!--quoteo(post=131214:date=Mar 8 2006, 09:18 PM:name=macunaima)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(macunaima @ Mar 8 2006, 09:18 PM) [snapback]131214[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--] I remember there was a lot of dissatisfaction back in '86 with the direction Maiden took on Somewhere in Time and later on 7th son. I confess I also didn't particularly like those albums when they first came out, but they have aged pretty well, especially 7th son.[/quote]

I imagine there was also a similar fuss when Number of the Beast was released, fans missing the punkier style of IM, Killers etc.
 
[!--quoteo(post=131168:date=Mar 8 2006, 02:49 PM:name=LooseCannon)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Mar 8 2006, 02:49 PM) [snapback]131168[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
My point is that not that the lyrics are bad, but that they are in places poorly put together for singing. Just like in some places in Dance of Death, Steve has written lyrics that are often clumsy for Bruce or whoever to sing. [/quote]

That's not true, at least not often at all.
When we talk about Steve's lyrics, it's even the opposite. He is very careful with the lyrics.

We all remember the Rainmaker discussion between Steve and Bruce.
http://forum.maidenfans.com/index.php?showtopic=2289
 
A good thing Maiden could do on their next album is to make the art look less seedy. In DoD, the members look like they are 70s pimps in a rundown whorehouse:
dance02.jpg
dance05.jpg
 
[!--quoteo(post=131234:date=Mar 8 2006, 10:47 PM:name=Forostar)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Forostar @ Mar 8 2006, 10:47 PM) [snapback]131234[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
That's not true, at least not often at all.
When we talk about Steve's lyrics, it's even the opposite. He is very careful with the lyrics.

We all remember the Rainmaker discussion between Steve and Bruce.
http://forum.maidenfans.com/index.php?showtopic=2289
[/quote]
Thanks for the link, Forostar. But I have to disagree with Steve. The first thing I listen to is the lyrics. It's different for every single one of us, mind you. But the lyrics are important to me. But Steve says in the interview that "the lyrics are important too, but at the end they have to fit the melody and not the other way around." To me, this says that he cares about making it fit, yes, but the tune is what matters, not the lyrics. He succeeds 95% of the time, in my opinion, but there quite a few moments where I find that Steve-composed lyrics have to be sung quickly and sloppily just to get them out in time.

I can go through and cite many more examples of rushed lyrics if you want me to.
 
To be honest, I completely agree that Steve isn't always brilliant with the lyrics, but that's not to say he's subpar. On the contrary, a lot of what he writes is good enough to qualify him as one of the better lyrics writers in metal.

I don't get the seemingly religious devotion to the lyrics of "Hallowed Be Thy Name" when they're really not all that above-average, at least in my opinion (this is all MY OPINION, of course). I think the reason we all love the lyrics is because they fit the music so well--on their own, they wouldn't sound all that hot, but the music serves as "Hallowed"s emotional center and everything else follows. The lyrics have become iconic.

Everyone loves "Phantom of the Opera," in spite of the fact that it's got some pretty clumsy moments, lyrically. But once again, everything else fits when the music's good. This is the genius of Steve Harris.

But he deserves credit for some kickass lyrics too. Rime comes to mind, and I think that alone gives him some amount of credibility. For every "Iron Maiden" or "Alexander the Great," there's a "Rime."

Bruce, on the other hand, is pretty reliable in the lyrics department and he's superior to Harris. So of course any album would benefit if he wrote more material.
 
[!--quoteo(post=131253:date=Mar 9 2006, 01:39 AM:name=LooseCannon)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Mar 9 2006, 01:39 AM) [snapback]131253[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
To me, this says that he cares about making it fit, yes, but the tune is what matters, not the lyrics. [/quote]

This is exactly what he means, I think. The tune matters.

The lyrics have to fit the tune. In the case of Rainmaker, Bruce wanted to have a bit different lyrics, so that the words get a better meaning or more depth (or whatever reason). Steve doesn't want that since the lyrics should fit to the tune.

I think that Bruce sees the music and lyrics as two different components. Steve sees the music and lyrics as one component, and within this "structure", the music (or melody, tune, whatever) is the most important, at least in Rainmaker.

So, The tune comes first, then the rest. Ok, he says "melody" instead of the word tune, but the melody is the essence of every maiden tune.

I understand that the lyrics are very important for you, but in 99% of the Iron Maiden songs the music is even more important than the lyrics. At least for Steve.

In the case of Blood Brothers, the lyrics are very personal. So in some parts of the song Steve finds the words more important than the fitting-aspects. I would never bother about it if I knew why these lyrics were written.
 
Well, I agree, it is Steve's songs and he has perogative on what the meaning is. But if you listen to Bruce's solo work, very rarely does he stumble or spit out the words at an increased pace. A vocalist generally knows how to write things singable. Steve still doesn't, at least not all the time.

Rainmaker, lyrically, was very well done and I approve of Steve's efforts there. But there are some parts of songs I simply find to be clumsy.
 
[!--quoteo(post=131291:date=Mar 9 2006, 03:23 PM:name=LooseCannon)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Mar 9 2006, 03:23 PM) [snapback]131291[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
But if you listen to Bruce's solo work, very rarely does he stumble or spit out the words at an increased pace.[/quote]

For someone who is being "tortured" by Steve to do this with Maiden, Brucie is doing this quite often in his solo work. "Kill Devil Hill", "Abduction" or "Navigate The Seas Of The Sun", anyone? ::
 
[!--quoteo(post=131062:date=Mar 7 2006, 11:50 AM:name=Conor)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Conor @ Mar 7 2006, 11:50 AM) [snapback]131062[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
This is clearly a matter of opinion but at the end of a long album like BNW, the last thing we need is a complicated section like this. I like the general laid back mood of the song but the solos are just... too much
[/quote]

Well, I guess it is a matter of opinion, but some opinions are biased and uninformed. [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":D\" border=\"0\" alt=\"biggrin.gif\" /]

If you're listening to this song while playing video games or surfing the internet for pornography then I can see that it might be a bit boring. But if you actually pay attention to it, it is fucking beautiful.. and a great album closer. [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":p\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /]
 
[!--quoteo(post=131328:date=Mar 9 2006, 05:15 PM:name=macunaima)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(macunaima @ Mar 9 2006, 05:15 PM) [snapback]131328[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
If you're listening to this song while playing video games or surfing the internet for pornography then I can see that it might be a bit boring. But if you actually pay attention to it, it is fucking beautiful.. and a great album closer. [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":p\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /]
[/quote]
Was the edit to include the word "fucking" or maybe tone down the insult [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":p\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /]
I do pay close attentio to the songs when i'm lying in bed listening or on a bus etc. I agree that when I'm playing computer games and browsing forums, music cannot be fully absorbed and no-brainer music is good like most thrash metal. Maiden is so great because they have easy to listen to rockers as well as complicated, almost proggy songs [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\";)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"wink.gif\" /]
 
[!--quoteo(post=131336:date=Mar 9 2006, 01:28 PM:name=Conor)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Conor @ Mar 9 2006, 01:28 PM) [snapback]131336[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
Was the edit to include the word "fucking" or maybe tone down the insult [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":p\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /]
[/quote]

It was to add the smilies -- in order to tone down the insult. [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":p\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /]

[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
Maiden is so great because they have easy to listen to rockers as well as complicated, almost proggy songs [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\";)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"wink.gif\" /]
[/quote]


I agree completely. I wouldn't want an album without short, up-tempo rockers like Aces High or The Wickerman. But I also wouldn't want an album without long, complex prog-metal tracks.

In fact, one of my complaints about DoD, is that all the short up-tempo rockers pretty much suck. Wildest Dreams, for example, I found pretty much unlistenable at first...it then grew on me and I was able to enjoy it a few times, but now it has pretty much worn out its welcome. The great thing about BNW and Powerslave is that they are a very nice blend of long complex tracks as well as short rockers that are good background music when you're playing video games or football. ::
 
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