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Official Star Wars Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by bearfan, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. LooseCannon

    LooseCannon Self-propelled artillery Staff Member

    This isn't far from the truth - high fantasy as George Lucas experienced it while growing up, maybe. The problem is that the way fantasy is told has grown by leaps and bounds since his youth. After the publishing of The Lord of the Rings and the sudden explosion of the fantasy genre, fantasy moved rapidly away from the broad strokes sort of method of myth-telling into a far more realistic-style of universe creation. Part of being a visionary director is recognizing how the landscape of the audience has changed from your own experiences - or perhaps, how it will change in the future. Lucas had that reputation once, but I'd say the prequels destroyed that thought.
     
    Maturin likes this.
  2. Mosh

    Mosh The years just pass like trains Staff Member

    There's tension between them in the very first scene of AOTC. Then you get Anakin whining about him to Padme.

    The problem is that there isn't a defining moment for their friendship in any of the films. In A New Hope it's Han Solo returning to the Death Star battle to assist Luke. In TFA the relationship between Rey and Finn develops gradually but is defined by Finn going to Starkiller base to rescue her. Rogue One had one of these moments between Jyn and Cassian but I honestly can't remember it. I know it was there though. Yes we know Anakin and Obi Wan are friends because the movie says so, but frankly that's lazy storytelling. They get along better in Episode III but how did they get there from II? Clone Wars can be excluded because I shouldn't have to consume extracurricular material to understand the character dynamic between the two main characters. That stuff should've been fleshed out in its own movie. If Clones was the first movie there would've been room for this.
     
  3. Perun

    Perun At the Heart of Winter Staff Member

    I'll play the devil's advocate here and argue that the lack of moments defining Anakin's and Obi Wan's friendship is sometimes a bit exaggerated. True, we don't have any moments between them like we did between Han and Luke (although you could argue that after the Hoth scenes, their relationship actually goes nowhere), but it's not like there is absolutely nothing between them. For one, their relationship is defined by Obi Wan's commitment to his old, beloved teacher. Then, the chase scene in AOTC is actually not such a bad character moment. It shows us Anakin's recklessness, Obi Wan's style of teaching and other things. I don't think it's particularly well written, and it has numerous other problems, but it works as a moment defining their relationship.
    I'll put it this way: I have less of a problem believing Anakin and Obi Wan are friends than believing that Padme is in love with Anakin.
     
  4. Mosh

    Mosh The years just pass like trains Staff Member

    I think this is precisely where it doesn't work for me. Obi Wan wants nothing to do with Anakin until Qui Gon dies. Fast forward ~10 years to the next movie and I'm not convinced that Obi Wan is training Anakin for any reason other than Qui Gon's wishes. Now there's nothing wrong with that if it's really the case, but III and IV both try to tell the audience that there's a much deeper bond between them.

    The chase scene is a good moment. The teacher/student dynamic is almost there and yes the characterization is a huge improvement after The Phantom Menace.
     
  5. soundwave

    soundwave Educated Fool

    In addition to many other things that I would like changed about the PT, I think the PT would have been better served had it started during the AOTC era, then a Clone Wars movie, and then finishing off with ROTS. I think Lucas could have really worked on the Anakin/Obi Wan relationship over three movies, and it would have really added to the emotional weight of ROTS when Anakin finally turns. We basically only get 1.5 movies with grown up Anakin and Obi Wan working together, which isn't enough to really establish an interesting enough connection for me. Other than Darth Maul and some narrative elements, TPM was a complete waste of time IMHO.
     
  6. bearfan

    bearfan Ancient Mariner

    Yeah .. I think starting with the start of the Clone Wars would have been better .. a little exposition could have taken care of the Trade Federation and Anakin got taken away from his Mom when he was little ... or start with Anakin in his Jedi training and end Ep1 with "begun the Clone Wars have"
     
    soundwave likes this.
  7. terrell39

    terrell39 Ancient Mariner

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