Iced Earth

Barlow never commented more than "he's family" on Jon's situation. He never posts anything politically related on Facebook other than sharing obituaries of dead fellow cops. He and Schaffer are brothers-in-law and Barlow wouldn't have a career without Jon. It would be hypocritical of him to run his mouth everywhere about the situation and to condemn Schaffer, so I genuinely prefer it this way. He doesn't talk about anything and we don't get 3 million articles on Blabbermouth such as "MATT BARLOW on SCHAFFER's situation: It is what it is, you know". Metal community would be a much better place if some musicians could just shut the fuck up.

Also, as I mentioned before, I'm not American so the whole Capitol thing doesn't bother me that much, but I understand why it would bother Americans. I can't tolerate anyone who supports people in power in Serbia, who are far worse than Trump. Also, we storm our government buildings almost every decade :p
 
Detective Beauregard said:
Trump was never convicted of inciting an insurrection.
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I never said he was, but all the evidence that he did is publicly available and was viewable in real time. People can draw their own conclusions.

Either way, my point is that there are plenty of people out there who are willing to look past what happened on January 6th. If Schaffer gets out of prison and decides to do some Iced Earth stuff, he will eventually have no problem finding a label and booking some shows IMO.

DJ James said:
Perhaps this isn't the thread to air out all my personal grievances on the state of things today, but I really wish politics didn't inevitably invade everything I like (I'm sure that statement alone is enough to get some snarky quotes about how bad of a person I am for not following this stuff 24/7). To be more specific, I wish I could keep politics out of music and discussion of music. I understand politics are very heavily involved in every discussion now, but there was a time not long ago when I didn't have to see it being discussed everywhere.

I can only speak as someone who lives a lower class to lower/middle class life. I don't make much money, but it's enough to survive. This is relevant because when it comes to music I still use it as a way to escape every day life, and I like talking with people online about it. My world is a lot smaller than the world on the news - and so is everyone I know's world. This may be because everyone else I know works mostly blue collar jobs like myself, and may not have the most money either, but just trying to get by and help those around me get by is more than enough to fill my world. Adding on top of that all this political drama that permeates everything (including the music I listen to now) is just a little tiring, and I'm atleast a little upset by the state of political discussions online.

All this is to say Jon's actions don't really affect my enjoyment of Iced Earth. In a morbid way, I do think it is funny that he "stormed" the capital. I understand Europeans or non-Americans might be appalled at that statement, but it is pretty funny to me. In a sort "man I can't believe he actually did it" kind of way. Not trying to diminsh the whole thing, but really to myself and just about everyone I talk to (in the real world of working class adults with busy lives), whole thing wasn't really that big a deal. If that last sentence puts me on "thin ice" can I at least get a warning so I know that expressing that opinion is a no-go? I truly don't have a temperature check on how serious the rest of the world views it. I know it certainly is talked about a lot still. Anyways, that's about all I got right now.
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I don't have a problem with anything you're saying here and I think it's a good reminder that there are a lot of working class people in America who don't have time or mental energy to follow what's going on politically. And the very real sentiment that politicians and elections are inconsequential when it comes to putting food on the table (I think that sentiment is debatable, but it's real and understandable nonetheless).

My take on politics and music is that music has always been political, but there are also plenty of artists out there who are pretty apolitical (Iron Maiden for example). I think, for example, it's weird that Taylor Swift gets dragged into politics (or she drags herself into politics) when her music has never been very political. As @MrKnickerbocker said, Jon has slowly brought more politics into his own music. He started a side project that was very political, and he made the very political decision of storming the capitol. I think it's OK to make the decision that Iced Earth has gotten too political and choose not to listen to them anymore.

Personally, I sold my Iced Earth CD collection after the insurrection, it felt wrong to still own those albums after what happened and it just wasn't the sort of thing I wanted to broadcast to others, even if it's not as big a deal offline (I agree with this). For my own personal ethics, I didn't want any Iced Earth in my collection. I haven't really listened to IE since then, although the GMSC has rejuvenated my interest in a few of their albums (mostly Stormrider and Burnt Offerings, which remain my favorite albums from the band). There are ways to enjoy their music without financially supporting them anyway.

I am reasonably certain that at least half the members of Maiden have political views that I strongly disagree with. But I don't know for sure and this side of them hasn't really seeped into the music, so it's not challenging to still enjoy the music and also respect them as artists. Other artists have made their political sides so dominant that it does impact my enjoyment of their music. Stranglehold is a cool song and Filosofem is an immense album, but I really struggle to listen to those albums without remembering that the artists behind them are massive pieces of shit. But that's on the artist, not me. It's not my fault Varg burned down those churches.

Edit: To better tie in that last point. I no longer have a problem with a lot of IE's work. As @Detective Beauregard said, most of their music is fantastical anyway and even the more political stuff within Iced Earth is not very preachy. So I can separate art from artist in that instance.
 
Mosh said:
Edit: To better tie in that last point. I no longer have a problem with a lot of IE's work. As @Detective Beauregard said, most of their music is fantastical anyway and even the more political stuff within Iced Earth is not very preachy. So I can separate art from artist in that instance.
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Being a dad of a 4-year old, my first instinct was to respond with an IE-related fart pun.

... Which I would have, had I actually come up with one.
 
Mosh said:
Im not gonna lie, I laughed when I saw that picture of Schaffer storming the capitol. It was a sort of “of course he was there” kind of reaction.

Not to diminish the severity of what happened - he should be deported.
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Same. My reaction was along the lines of "this is somehow the least surprising news ever".
In hindsight it was obvious that he'd do something like that.

Diesel 11 said:
I dislike the idea that it's a musician's fault that they've written about political issues. It's not a fault so much as it is a topic. There are plenty of artists who write songs that I find moving because of how they tackle political subjects. Others like Mustaine or Schaffer I find worse for their political material. But music is a perfect medium for expression, and that includes your takes on politics.
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Art is inherently political. The degree to which a musician is willing to express their views through their art is variable. Up til Horror Show Iced Earth was rather light on political themes, with the anti-religion view point being the only overt view expressed really. From The Glorious Burden onwards (and the entirety of Sons Of Liberty of course) Jon inserted his views into Iced Earth. Funnily at the same time the songwriting took a nosedive from which he barely recovered.
 
Vaenyr said:
Funnily at the same time the songwriting took a nosedive from which he barely recovered.
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I think that's mostly coincidental, especially since The Glorious Burden is one of the better latter stage albums (though still not very good). I'm not really sure what happened other than losing Barlow, the songwriting formula didn't really change that much but it just got more uninspired with each album.
 
I'm not implying that his views caused worse songs. I was a huge fan of Dystopia and thought Incorruptible (ironic title lol) was a return to form. I was looking forward to see what the new and stable line-up would produce next. My remark was genuinely noting a funny coincidence to me.

Early Iced Earth had far more complex and progressive song structures. From Dark Saga onwards the structures got simplified quite a bit and more and more European Power Metal influences were heard. Horror Show still had some very interesting riffs (the verse riff for Wolf is incredibly punishing to play and takes a ton of stamina, but it's so much fun once you've nailed it). At points it feels as if Jon was desperately looking to find a way to get a breakthrough success in more mainstream audiences. I've lost all respect for the man but can't deny that he worked hard to make Iced Earth work, so I can't fault him for that (if that assessment is even true and fair).

I remember reading some interviews before Framing Armageddon released, where they talked about how ambitious the album is going to be and how all these exotic instruments were used. At the end of the day it was just another modern Iced Earth album, with some percussion and a flute here and there. There were some cool songs on there, but nothing revolutionary.
 
I thought TGB and FA were great (although FA should have been trimmed a bit). I got into IE through TGB, after finding out Ripper were singing for them and was blown away by the Gettysburg trilogy, but really, there isn't a single song that does not meet the "good song" mark.

Having to leave in the midst of the trilogy being performed live is the single biggest gig-regret I have. I was 17 at the time, and had to catch the train back. There was no support band announced as far as I knew (and I checked, I think), but Turisas were doing a set, and thus, threw my anticipated time table off. I got onto the train by a couple of minutes margin, having travelled quite some ground in the 15 minutes it miraculously took, pre-google maps in a city I then did not know very well.
 
Yax said:
I thought TGB and FA were great (although FA should have been trimmed a bit). I got into IE through TGB, after finding out Ripper were singing for them and was blown away by the Gettysburg trilogy, but really, there isn't a single song that does not meet the "good song" mark.
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Even Red Baron/Blue Max or Greenface? There is quite a bit of good music on there, Valley Forge, Waterloo and Hold At All Costs being some of my favorites, but the other two I mentioned have always felt quite throwaway to me.
 
Vaenyr said:
Even Red Baron/Blue Max or Greenface? There is quite a bit of good music on there, Valley Forge, Waterloo and Hold At All Costs being some of my favorites, but the other two I mentioned have always felt quite throwaway to me.
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Red Baron is a good song, although the lyrics are about as shit as Alexander The Great. I like how they kept Barlow's backing vocals for that one. Greenface is decent too, although that wasn't on the European version if I recall correctly.

Edit: Yeah, it wasn't on the European release I bought.
 
Vaenyr said:
Even Red Baron/Blue Max or Greenface? There is quite a bit of good music on there, Valley Forge, Waterloo and Hold At All Costs being some of my favorites, but the other two I mentioned have always felt quite throwaway to me.
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Red Baron/Blue Max and Greenface are the absolute rock bottom IE ever hit. Truly atrocious songs, no redeeming musical quality whatsoever. Really surprises me that you would pick those two of all the tracks on that album. It's like fishing out two turds stuck in the arse of a rotting corpse to demonstrate that not all about it stinks.

EDIT: Never mind, I misread the context. Not deleting the post though, these two tracks deserve all the hate they can get.
 
I remember they played Red Baron/Blue Max on the 2014(?) tour and it was so shocking, such a WTF?WHY? moment, that I could not help but headbang while laughing hysterically and screaming "Red Baaaaaaaaaaaron" along with Stu.
 
Vaenyr said:
I've lost all respect for the man but can't deny that he worked hard to make Iced Earth work, so I can't fault him for that (if that assessment is even true and fair).
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He worked hard for Iced Earth, I agree, but he also likely hindered them. He took such a tight control over the band that he became a bitch to work with/for and was a large part of the reason the band had such a high turnover rate. The moment you start churning through bandmembers like that the clearer it becomes that he essentially saw Iced Earth through only the lens of himself.

Around the time of Horror Show he was making comments in interviews about how Barlow was essentially replaceable, but he turns in great performances so he keeps him in the band. Suddenly 9/11 happens and Barlow wants out; now Schaffer is scrambling to keep his vocalist in the band, only giving up when he deems the performances lacking. So he moves on to Ripper, who he's stated has the voice he (Schaffer) hears in his head when he writes an Iced Earth song. Was he lying or was the pressure so high that despite having the "voice of Iced Earth" in his band, he cans Owens to bring Barlow back for another unsuccessful stint. You gotta wonder if Schaffer wasn't losing control by this point but too stubborn to realize maybe he's the dipshit. It seems like when Stu came on board he relaxed a bit, "Brothers" is a nice bonding song between the two.

Perun said:
Red Baron/Blue Max and Greenface are the absolute rock bottom IE ever hit. Truly atrocious songs, no redeeming musical quality whatsoever. Really surprises me that you would pick those two of all the tracks on that album. It's like fishing out two turds stuck in the arse of a rotting corpse to demonstrate that not all about it stinks.
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I mean, RB/BM isn't that bad, and "Greenface" is actually one of my favorite songs on TGB. It's fun.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
I remember they played Red Baron/Blue Max on the 2014(?) tour and it was so shocking, such a WTF?WHY? moment, that I could not help but headbang while laughing hysterically and screaming "Red Baaaaaaaaaaaron" along with Stu.
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To think that the same mind that came up with Pure Evil, Burnt Offerings, Last December and A Question of Heaven not only also came up with Red Baron/Blue Max and still thought it good enough to play it live even ten years later, that's the real mystery of Jon Schaffer.
 
We're pretty much in agreement @Perun, these two songs really aren't to my liking.

@Diesel 11 , yeah, working with Jon seems to be a nightmare. He's always been a huge asshole which led to the band bleeding valuable members who brought a ton of potential to the band. That's actually one of the reasons I'm so salty that he sacrificed everything for Trump of all people: Stu is a great vocalist who was finally finding his own place in Iced Earth after trying to imitate Barlow for too long. Brent is a great drummer with some insane footwork. Luke started getting more involved and co-wrote some of my favorite modern Iced Earth songs. Jake is a very gifted guitarist , delivered great performances and I was looking forward to him being more involved in the songwriting on the next album. The line-up seemed stable and apparently worked great together, but now we'll never know how they would've continued. We'll never the Relic Part 2 (what the hell was up with that anyway? lol)
 
I can maybe buy a Steve Harris/Blaze situation where Jon genuinely liked Ripper better (his stylings are closer to the vocalists on the first two albums imo) and getting Barlow back was a commercial choice, but it doesn’t seem like the vocalist in Iced Earth makes that much of a difference. Plus he got Stu Block instead of bringing Ripper back and Stu leaned really hard into a Barlow vocal style.

Tbh if it weren’t for 1/6 I bet we would be talking about an Iced Earth/Barlow reunion right now. Timing seemed right and Barlow is clearly more interested in getting out there. IE was probably going to slow down a bit anyway with people getting older.
 
blabbermouth.net

JON SCHAFFER To Undergo Medical Procedure; Sentencing Delayed Until April

According to The Republic, a federal judge has agreed to push back Jon Schaffer's sentencing hearing until April 5 on medical grounds, as the ICED EARTH guitarist is scheduled to undergo an undisclosed medical procedure "with the need for a recovery afterwards." However, U.S. District Court...
blabbermouth.net blabbermouth.net
Sentencing hearing delayed to April 5, but it will not be stayed pending the outcome of Joseph W. Fischer v. United States.
 
I have a strange relationship with this band as my absolute favorite works by them are the Live in Athens, which is Iced Earth in their purest form, and... Gettysburg, which coincidentally is the less Iced Earth thing they have ever done.
 
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