Ardius
Trooper
Yes, Forostar, I was talking about their earlier stuff.
Besides, the fact is that close to no-one has heard of Rush around here anymore. Its not like Queen or Zeppelin where EVERY englishman (or welshmen or scottsmen or northern-irishmen) has heard of them.
If I play any famous Rush song around here, people nearly always ask "whos this?" in which I reply "Rush" and theyre like "oh, never heard of them, are they new?". (unless its something thats tell-tale 70s/80s like Tom Sawyer or Red Sector A etc, then its more like "oh, they dont sound as good as Queen/T.Rex/Rolling Stones/Led Zeppelin etc)
Even if they were included they wouldnt get very far.
Theres something you need to understand about bands from America - theyre not necessarily popular in England.
Although Metallica are popular in the metal crowd overhere, its nowhere near the popularity they have in America.
Same for Rush, just the hard rock fans really know them, but I think theyre less famous than Metallica overhere because Metallica are a more recent band and Kerrang and MTV cover Metallica fairly regularly.
To put some perspective on things, Oasis were easily as popular as the Beatles were at their height....maybe not anymore, but theyre still there, making new albums and selling them pretty well. For the record, I prefer Morning Glory over Definitely Maybe but both are top notch albums.
In fact, Id go as far to say that Oasis almost (and this is a big almost!) are as popular as Iron Maiden and Judas Priest. The problem is its hard to judge how popular bands are because some are covered better by the media than others. Maiden are still on top because its quite evident theres many fans out there from album and ticket sales.
However, the public doesnt mention them very much.
Another band that had similar kind of success and from the same scene as Oasis is the Stone Roses who didnt really hit it off anywhere except the UK.
Also, Id just like to say: Manchester music c'est magnifique!
Besides, the fact is that close to no-one has heard of Rush around here anymore. Its not like Queen or Zeppelin where EVERY englishman (or welshmen or scottsmen or northern-irishmen) has heard of them.
If I play any famous Rush song around here, people nearly always ask "whos this?" in which I reply "Rush" and theyre like "oh, never heard of them, are they new?". (unless its something thats tell-tale 70s/80s like Tom Sawyer or Red Sector A etc, then its more like "oh, they dont sound as good as Queen/T.Rex/Rolling Stones/Led Zeppelin etc)
Powergirl81 said:
Even if they were included they wouldnt get very far.
Theres something you need to understand about bands from America - theyre not necessarily popular in England.
Although Metallica are popular in the metal crowd overhere, its nowhere near the popularity they have in America.
Same for Rush, just the hard rock fans really know them, but I think theyre less famous than Metallica overhere because Metallica are a more recent band and Kerrang and MTV cover Metallica fairly regularly.
To put some perspective on things, Oasis were easily as popular as the Beatles were at their height....maybe not anymore, but theyre still there, making new albums and selling them pretty well. For the record, I prefer Morning Glory over Definitely Maybe but both are top notch albums.
In fact, Id go as far to say that Oasis almost (and this is a big almost!) are as popular as Iron Maiden and Judas Priest. The problem is its hard to judge how popular bands are because some are covered better by the media than others. Maiden are still on top because its quite evident theres many fans out there from album and ticket sales.
However, the public doesnt mention them very much.
Another band that had similar kind of success and from the same scene as Oasis is the Stone Roses who didnt really hit it off anywhere except the UK.
Also, Id just like to say: Manchester music c'est magnifique!
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Ardius said:
That's 1974, 1975.
Ardius said:
That's 2008. I don't know why those people never heard of them. Can't help it.
Concluding: To say the following:
"Band A from country A sounded like band B from country B, THIRTY-something years ago, and that's why band A is hardly known nowadays in land B."
..I find, with all respect, almost the same as:
"Remember that cranberry jam that came on the market in the mid seventies? It tasted a bit like strawberry jam. That's why all my friends of today don't know cranberry jam, and even if they know it, they all think it's worse than strawberry jam".
On a more serious note:
-Rush had a very succesful tour (most succesful tour ever) last year, including England.
-Perhaps your friends don't know Rush because they like bands which honestly sound pretty different. Zeppelin and Queen are just totally different. If people like these bands a lot and know less of progressive rock music, no wonder that they might not have heard of Rush and no wonder they might not like it better than the bands they like. Especially after a first listening, the golden era of Rush (1976-1981 - do you know these albums?), if I might call it this way, might not be easy cake to take. At the time the band made their most complex music. Way and way more complex than any of those "classic & big" rock bands ever tried.
While speaking about Rush, Ardius said:
Rush is from Canada, and they're damn proud of that. For instance, their classic instrumental "YYZ" takes its name from the international code for the Toronto airport (Toronto being the specific Canadian city Rush calls home).
There are countless other corrections I could make about the stuff in this thread (I recall someone misspelling "albeit" as the three words "all be it", as one example), but I'm not in the mood right now. Perhaps later.
However, I will note the following about the topic in general...
1. Best British band of all time? Queen probably deserves that title, as they were the most consistent of the great ones. Their albums and their shows were consistently excellent. However...
1a. Some British bands, at their very best, were better than Queen. This includes the Beatles, the Stones, Zep and the Who. The latter three, at their peak, were all better live than Queen. Not that Queen was bad; the Stones, Who and Zep were that good. Listen to their live albums: Get Yer Ya-Yas Out (Stones), How The West Was Won (Zep) and Live At Leeds (Who) - that Who album being the greatest live album ever recorded, bar none.
1b. You should all be ashamed. I think I read every word of this thread, and the fact that no one mentioned The Who before me stands as a testament to all of you not knowing your British rock.
1c. There are a few other bands that come to mind as being rightful contenders, many of which have not been mentioned here yet. Pink Floyd has been mentioned. But how about The Kinks, Jethro Tull or Yes? And while Jimi was American, the Jimi Hendrix Experience was two-thirds British. And that's not even getting into metal yet...
2. Best British singer? I understand the arguments for Mercury, Halford and Dickinson. But I'd have to go with Robert Plant. And Mick Jagger also deserves consideration; he's been around so long that he's become vastly underrated. Plant and Jagger together defined what it is to be a big-time rock singer (along with Mercury).
3. Since they've gotten so much attention, let me address these three bands...
3a. Iron Maiden. We're all biased on this site. I think that Maiden was questionable for much of their career, in terms of being considered with those A-list bands. But their last 3 studio albums have been so spectacular that they belong there now. It's a shame that metal is often considered separate from mainstream rock, otherwise Maiden (and Sabbath and Priest) would get the respect they deserve.
3b. Rush. In terms of their creativity, lyrics, arrangements and musicianship, I think there are few better. But somehow, they still fall short. Maybe it's because much of their music is so intellectual and complicated; it doesn't have that special something that grabs you by the cojones and makes you want to dance. It's great to listen to, but even hits like "Limelight" won't get most people moving the way half a dozen Queen songs will.
3c. Metallica. I can't recall now who said it above, but someone said they sold out back when they made the "One" video. Bullshit. Many ages ago, I addressed this topic at length in another thread. I do intend to write an even longer bit for this thread later tonight, and I'll look up that post. But the point is: Metallica has never sold out. They've always done their own thing, whatever that was at the time. Just because they stopped writing thrash epics after the 80s doesn't mean they sold out. People change, and so their music changes. Get over it.
Now I'm off to check on the rest of the forum before I return to further school you all.
Ardius said:
Rush is from Canada, and they're damn proud of that. For instance, their classic instrumental "YYZ" takes its name from the international code for the Toronto airport (Toronto being the specific Canadian city Rush calls home).
There are countless other corrections I could make about the stuff in this thread (I recall someone misspelling "albeit" as the three words "all be it", as one example), but I'm not in the mood right now. Perhaps later.
However, I will note the following about the topic in general...
1. Best British band of all time? Queen probably deserves that title, as they were the most consistent of the great ones. Their albums and their shows were consistently excellent. However...
1a. Some British bands, at their very best, were better than Queen. This includes the Beatles, the Stones, Zep and the Who. The latter three, at their peak, were all better live than Queen. Not that Queen was bad; the Stones, Who and Zep were that good. Listen to their live albums: Get Yer Ya-Yas Out (Stones), How The West Was Won (Zep) and Live At Leeds (Who) - that Who album being the greatest live album ever recorded, bar none.
1b. You should all be ashamed. I think I read every word of this thread, and the fact that no one mentioned The Who before me stands as a testament to all of you not knowing your British rock.
1c. There are a few other bands that come to mind as being rightful contenders, many of which have not been mentioned here yet. Pink Floyd has been mentioned. But how about The Kinks, Jethro Tull or Yes? And while Jimi was American, the Jimi Hendrix Experience was two-thirds British. And that's not even getting into metal yet...
2. Best British singer? I understand the arguments for Mercury, Halford and Dickinson. But I'd have to go with Robert Plant. And Mick Jagger also deserves consideration; he's been around so long that he's become vastly underrated. Plant and Jagger together defined what it is to be a big-time rock singer (along with Mercury).
3. Since they've gotten so much attention, let me address these three bands...
3a. Iron Maiden. We're all biased on this site. I think that Maiden was questionable for much of their career, in terms of being considered with those A-list bands. But their last 3 studio albums have been so spectacular that they belong there now. It's a shame that metal is often considered separate from mainstream rock, otherwise Maiden (and Sabbath and Priest) would get the respect they deserve.
3b. Rush. In terms of their creativity, lyrics, arrangements and musicianship, I think there are few better. But somehow, they still fall short. Maybe it's because much of their music is so intellectual and complicated; it doesn't have that special something that grabs you by the cojones and makes you want to dance. It's great to listen to, but even hits like "Limelight" won't get most people moving the way half a dozen Queen songs will.
3c. Metallica. I can't recall now who said it above, but someone said they sold out back when they made the "One" video. Bullshit. Many ages ago, I addressed this topic at length in another thread. I do intend to write an even longer bit for this thread later tonight, and I'll look up that post. But the point is: Metallica has never sold out. They've always done their own thing, whatever that was at the time. Just because they stopped writing thrash epics after the 80s doesn't mean they sold out. People change, and so their music changes. Get over it.
Now I'm off to check on the rest of the forum before I return to further school you all.
Ardius
Trooper
^Woops, an oversight on my part there SMX. I know all too well theyre from Canada. I should have worded that bit better as "bands that are popular in america"...but too late now.
Yes, I know they had a successful tour, I saw them, lol.
No, my friends are big into all kinds of hard rock and they should have surely heard of Rush, yet they have not. Its not a matter of taste, its a matter of Rush not being that popular here in their heyday and as a result, the media does not remember and do not cover them in their "best bands" or "best albums" polls and lists, even in the 70s ones........if they do, they rarely get above no.50.
Yes, I know their early albums I have 2112 and Permanent Waves and have a large amount of songs off the rest of the albums. Yes, these albums were very progressive and are definition of "those 70s bands that made long songs and long solos".
Hmmm, perhaps I did get confused somewhere about saying their unpopularity was because of Zeppelin and Maiden. I suppose youre right, the reason theyre unpopular overhere is because of their prog elements......but that doesnt explain why they arent as big as other prog-rock artists....like Pink Floyd.....overhere. By the way, Im not just working this out from the opinions of my friends......Im also going by their coverage by the media (which is basically none).
Forostar said:That's 1974, 1975.
That's 2008. I don't know why those people never heard of them. Can't help it.
Concluding: To say the following:
"Band A from country A sounded like band B from country B, THIRTY-something years ago, and that's why band A is hardly known nowadays in land B."
..I find, with all respect, almost the same as:
"Remember that cranberry jam that came on the market in the mid seventies? It tasted a bit like strawberry jam. That's why all my friends of today don't know cranberry jam, and even if they know it, they all think it's worse than strawberry jam".
On a more serious note:
-Rush had a very succesful tour (most succesful tour ever) last year, including England.
-Perhaps your friends don't know Rush because they like bands which honestly sound pretty different. Zeppelin and Queen are just totally different. If people like these bands a lot and know less of progressive rock music, no wonder that they might not have heard of Rush and no wonder they might not like it better than the bands they like. Especially after a first listening, the golden era of Rush (1976-1981 - do you know these albums?), if I might call it this way, might not be easy cake to take. At the time the band made their most complex music. Way and way more complex than any of those "classic & big" rock bands ever tried.
Yes, I know they had a successful tour, I saw them, lol.
No, my friends are big into all kinds of hard rock and they should have surely heard of Rush, yet they have not. Its not a matter of taste, its a matter of Rush not being that popular here in their heyday and as a result, the media does not remember and do not cover them in their "best bands" or "best albums" polls and lists, even in the 70s ones........if they do, they rarely get above no.50.
Yes, I know their early albums I have 2112 and Permanent Waves and have a large amount of songs off the rest of the albums. Yes, these albums were very progressive and are definition of "those 70s bands that made long songs and long solos".
Hmmm, perhaps I did get confused somewhere about saying their unpopularity was because of Zeppelin and Maiden. I suppose youre right, the reason theyre unpopular overhere is because of their prog elements......but that doesnt explain why they arent as big as other prog-rock artists....like Pink Floyd.....overhere. By the way, Im not just working this out from the opinions of my friends......Im also going by their coverage by the media (which is basically none).
I see a disturbing pattern:
Please learn how to separate sentences and punctuate correctly. The period key on your keyboard is not a toy.
Ardius said:
Please learn how to separate sentences and punctuate correctly. The period key on your keyboard is not a toy.
Ardius
Trooper
Forostar said:
Ew, that video makes Geddy look like he put on loads of weight. He didnt look like that when I saw them, and that was only 3 days before that video.
EDIT: Im interested to see what you think of these covers, Forostar:
Limelight - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=J4SzpdhF9-g
Tom Sawyer - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eh3RxnoowA8
Personally, I think the limelight cover is pretty good considering they were trying to avoid sounding "too much like original artist". As they were almost sued over the Romantics song on Guitar Hero 80s sounding too much like the original. In fact, I think that case is still ongoing.
Anyway, despite this, I think its not bad considering very few people could match Geddy, just like the Iron Maiden covers are fairly close (although, in some cases I think they could have done better, the Wrathchild cover was terrible and the Trooper cover was medicore, at least Run to the Hills retains some its original charm.) The Tom Sawyer cover however, leaves a little to be desired. At least with this game though, you can sing over the vocals and turn them off. It just depends whether you think you can sing better than the cover.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
The drummer makes quite some mistakes if you ask me! A couple of times he's too late, too slow, too messy.
I missed this post, sorry! -->
It shows how much you(r friends) are dependent on media. I did not get into Maiden because of media, I did not get into Rush because of media (well, I read a good review of "Different Stages", so that's not entirely true). I find it rediculous that someone's taste is solely dependant on media. That's selective listening. By the way, where are your facts, that Rush was not that popular in your country? Figures of concert attendances?
Rush recorded "A Show Of Hands", partly in Birmingham.
The third disc of "Different Stages" (1998) is taken from a performance at the Hammersmith Odeon in London during the A Farewell to Kings tour in 1978.
EuCon is the annual convention in Europe of fans of the rock band Rush.
Originally called the UK Rush Convention it has been held in England annually since its inception on 14th July 1996.
This article of 1982 shows you some interesting links between Rush & Britain
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/rush/bio-rush.php
I grouped the bonds with Britain here:
About the 1978 tour (2nd time in Britain):
...In addition, every night was a sell-out. It eventually dawned on even my feeble brain that I was witnessing a rock and roll phenomenon. I was seeing a band break through to the major league in Britain on only their second tour of the country....
..That British tour was a sell- out two solid months before it started. Their first half dozen albums were selling as fast as they could be brought into the country to a hardcore but rapidly burgeoning legion of fans. What they were doing was breaking through in Britain in exactly the same inevitable inexorable manner that they had done in their native Canada and neighbouring United States...
(about Neil Peart)
...at the beginning of the Seventies, went to London to see if it was possible to make a full-time living out of music in what was then the rock capital of the world. Unlike fellow Canadian Pat Travers who was to do precisely that, Peart had no luck. He ended up selling souvenirs in London's tourist trap, Carnaby Street, before returning home when the money and the impetus ran out."..
...But there was also a certain gentleman by the name of Geoff Barton writing then - and now - for Sounds who was carrying on what was practically a one man crusade on behalf of Rush.
He got hold of a copy of 'All The World's A Stage' in November 1976 and gave it a rave review, rating it a five star album. He concluded a list of superlatives with the following advice: "Rush are probably the best undiscovered band in Britain at the moment. I strongly recommend you to check them out. Now."...
...One of their plans for the future which they announced at the end of 1976 was that they would be coming to Britain in the middle of 1977 to record their next album. Fans in Britain reasoned that if that were so the odds were that Rush would also be playing some live dates - their first outside of North America.
The decision to try recording in England was an interesting one. The band had never recorded outside of Toronto, at least not successfully.
At the end of 1976 they'd tried working in New York's Electric Lady Studios - the operation set up by the late Jimi Hendrix and immortalised on his 'Electric Ladyland' album with its notorious British cover. However they'd been forced to scrap what they'd done simply because they were dissatisfied with the results. One of the reasons was apparently that they didn't feel at home in an American studio - curious, since they were spending most of their time in the States at this stage.
Favourite studio for the new album, at the time, appeared to be George Martin's AIR Studios in London's Oxford Street. Easily one of the best appointed in the country it would have been a natural choice. Also it would have been something of a spiritual home-coming for Neil Peart since the last time he'd been in London he'd been working a stone's throw away in Carnaby Street selling trinkets to the tourists.
As it turned out, however, Rockfield Studios in South Wales were to get Rush's custom and the album they recorded there was the excellent 'A Farewell To Kings.' But that's getting ahead of ourselves. Before Rockfield beckoned Rush had a lot more dates to get through....
..The first time I spoke with Rush, Geddy and Neil were both resigned to the seeming fact that they would never get any radio airplay.
Geddy told me: "As far as we're concerned it seems that radio programmers don't believe we exist. No matter how many sell-out shows we do, no matter how many albums we sell they still don't seem to be interested. "I don't think there's any point in being bitter about it, though. It seems to be just a fact of life. As long as we keep pulling in audiences and selling records we believe that we're doing the right thing. Anyway, we've been on the road for so long now I don't think we could imagine any other kind of lifestyle."...
....There was quiet confidence in the Rush camp about the upcoming dates but significantly in Britain tickets for the three shows were put on sale well up front (about seven weeks ahead as a matter of fact).
Of course, they sold out within days. To appreciate the significance of that achievement you have to remember that this was the summer of '77. The Clash were singing 'London's Burning' and The Sex Pistols were finding it hard to get anywhere to play at all - and getting maximum publicity out of their predicament.
Rush seemed about as at home in this musical maelstrom as the Duke of Edinburgh would be at the Marquee. And yet they thrived.
The biggest surprise among the British rock critics appeared to be that a band like Rush came from Canada. Writer Dave Redshaw who reviewed Rush's Manchester date recalls his astonishment that Canada - land of Joni Mitchell and The Band - could cough up anything like Rush.
Redshaw zeroed in on the band's affection for Ayn Rand - a decidedly unfashionable stance in the punk days - and also likened Geddy's singing voice to that of David Surkamp of the relatively obscure Pavlov's Dog, a comparison that was to be repeated many times in the British rock press over the next few years.
What was highly important about those first dates in Britain was that it was obvious that Rush, despite little if any promotion, had sufficient fans for them to sell out major venues up and down the country.
In addition, those fans were sufficiently loyal to have searched out the Rush albums that were available in this country on import. As Redshaw recalls "They seemed to know every single riff that Rush played."
With those dates to their credit, plus the European ones which went equally well, Rush hightailed it to the wilds of South Wales and Rockfield Studios. They were to begin work on an album which had the working title of 'Closer To The Heart.' When it was finally released in September of 1977 it had been renamed 'A Farewell To Kings.'...
...All in all it was fair to say that Rush had broken through in Britain....
...'Hemispheres' probably more than any other Rush album brought the band in touch with a much wider audience.
Up till then they were still regarded very much in the symphonic end of heavy metal mainstream. 'Hemispheres' seemed to make the band an appealing prospect to the thousands of Yes and Genesis fans throughout the country...
...The band was set for 18 dates during April and May of 1979 - three nights at London's Hammersmith Odeon, two apiece at Newcastle, Glasgow, Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham and Bristol and one-offs at Edinburgh, Coventry and Southampton. The original plan was for them to do 36 dates, such was the demand by fans, but the band felt that they couldn't cope with such a large addition to an already exhausting schedule which they had set themselves.
After all, apart from Britain the band were also lined up to play dates in Germany, Holland, Norway, Sweden, Belgium and Finland in a six week sell-out tour.
Eventually, the number of nights they ended up playing at Hammersmith Odeon was five - a remarkable achievement for any band. Incidentally, before they set off for the tour they were awarded yet another Juno in Canada for being "Best Group Of The Year" and when they got to London they were presented with a silver disc for sales in Britain of 'A Farewell To Kings'.....
...However, within a month of their getting back home, it was announced in the music papers that Rush would be coming back to the UK to do a one-off show at the massive, barn-like Stafford Bingley Hall on September 21. The reason, according to the papers, was that Rush were planning to record their next album in the UK - the betting was on Trident in London as the favoured studio - and that they would take the opportunity to play a special concert here.
There had been such an overwhelming demand for tickets on the previous visit that Rush felt they should give the fans who had missed them a chance to see the band - and the people surrounding Rush obviously felt highly confident they'd have no trouble filling the 10,000 plus capacity hall.
No trouble? Too right - because within a week of the date being announced it had been sold out and the promoters, Straight Music, quickly organised another one for the following night. All in all 20,000 tickets sold without too much trouble at all - if anyone needed confirmation that Rush were a major act they had only to look at those figures.....
(about "Permanent Waves")
..The album was mixed at Trident on their British jaunt and it was eventually released in January, 1980. Two of the album's songs, 'Spirit Of Radio' and 'Free Will' were heard for the first time in the UK at the Bingley Hall shows and, significantly, the former received a tumultuous response. Almost on a par, in fact, with the classic 'Farewell To Kings'. The show that I went to - the first - was a complete and utter triumph for the band. I'm told by others who went to the second show that that one went equally well.
The band played for about two hours each night, punctuating their show with their spectacular light show. By the time it was over that first night the crowd filed out in an almost reverent fashion, as though they'd been witnesses to a religious experience, more than a rock concert....
...On the record front the band enjoyed spectacular success with 'Permanent Waves' spiralling up the album charts and eventually making Five in the three majors - Billboard, Cashhox and Record World.
In Britain it made number three....
..The fans were repaying Rush in kind on the record sales front by making 'Permanent Waves' go gold in the States, platinum in Canada and silver in Britain - all within two months of the album's release...
....Rolling Stone's David Fricke was far more on the ball and to the point. He wrote: "It's easy to criticize what you can't understand which at least partly explains why Canadian power trio Rush have suffered so much at the hands of rock journalists since the band's debut album in 1974." Fricke dished out praise all round and concluded with one of the most perceptive remarks ever committed to print by a rock journalist on the subject of Rush.
"Rush's problem has rarely been competence. They simply don't play fashionable music. If they couldn't cut it on their own terms it would be different but this band is among the very best in its genre.
"And, if the Top Five status of 'Permanent Waves' is any example it's a genre wherein critics don't count at all."
And that's exactly the point the band were trying to make with the album and its title. Neil Peart said 'Permanent Waves' was intended as a dig at the British music press which, he reasoned, by virtue of being weekly was desperate for new people to write about every week. As a result the press was either killing off somebody or raising up someone else as the "unheralded new God."...
....Still, if Rush didn't much like the British music press and the attitudes of most of its members they couldn't deny that they got plenty of coverage when their next British tour was announced.
The band were revealed as having a month long touring schedule in Britain for June, 1980. They opened at Southampton Gaumont (June 1 and 2), followed by five nights at London's Hammersmith Odeon (June 4 to 8 ), Glasgow Apollo (10 and 11), Newcastle City Hall (12 and 13), Leeds Queens Hall (15), Chester Deeside Leisure Centre (16), Manchester Apollo (17 and 18), Birmingham Odeon (20), Leicester De Montfort Hall (21) and Brighton Centre (22).
By the time the tour was announced ticket demand had already been quite remarkable. Simply on speculative mail order bookings, or information via word of mouth, Hammersmith Odeon had sold out for the first two nights, both shows at Glasgow Apollo had already gone and Newcastle City Hall reported that by the time their dates had been announced they'd had enough postal bookings to fill the place anyway....
(Neil Peart
..."We've worked so hard at establishing ourselves in Britain, for example, that when we come over here now we expect to have a good tour. I don't want this to sound conceited in any way but we expect sell-out concerts and we expect good responses from the audience.
"We put in the work and now we're seeing the results. Of course if we did a bad show I wouldn't expect a good response, but I'd be really surprised if we did a bad show these days.
"In America I think a lot of the disc jockeys are being forced to play our songs now because the kids are phoning them up and demanding that they play them. For me that's ideal. I don't want a jock playing our material because the record company promotion man is his best friend, or his brother-in-law. I either want them to play it because they're into it, or better still, play it because the kids want to hear it.
"It's pleasant enough getting response from radio stations and from the American press now but I can't say that we're all too excited about it. It's okay but we're not about to start celebrating because some jock has finally discovered who we are - they all had plenty of chances over the last eight years, when we really needed them. Now, it's nice to have them but I can't say that we really need them, now when we have audiences like the one we had here at Hammersmith and like so many of the crowds we're getting in America now.
"You know, it's tremendously satisfying to do well in Britain. It's not the most important market in the world in terms of record sales but we all have a special relationship with this country. I've lived here for a while, we've recorded several albums here and enjoyed doing them tremendously and we've also experienced a lot of loyalty from the fans. You really can't have a better relationship than that."...
(Tour which followed Moving Pictures)
....They weren't back on the road until October when they played a massive tour of the UK, not so much in number of gigs but the sheer size of venues - playing multiple dates in the biggest arenas Britain could offer, like Stafford Bingley Hall and Wembley Arena.
To coincide with that they finally got out their live album, 'Exit . . . Stage Left'. The band had done what they promised which was to take recordings from the last British tour and combine them with tapes from the North American tour....
(about "Exit...Stage Left")
...the British public who ordered 40,000 copies of the album before it was released....
In other words. Unfortunately you are wrong informed. The current media might not play Rush much, but media don't always tell you what's good or not, and also media don't tell you always what's popular or not. Let's look at our own beloved band, Iron Maiden. They became big, not because of the media attention. Because of their records, and concerts.
Pink Floyd's music is the most opposite kind of music you can imagine.
Alright.
I missed this post, sorry! -->
Ardius said:
It shows how much you(r friends) are dependent on media. I did not get into Maiden because of media, I did not get into Rush because of media (well, I read a good review of "Different Stages", so that's not entirely true). I find it rediculous that someone's taste is solely dependant on media. That's selective listening. By the way, where are your facts, that Rush was not that popular in your country? Figures of concert attendances?
Rush recorded "A Show Of Hands", partly in Birmingham.
The third disc of "Different Stages" (1998) is taken from a performance at the Hammersmith Odeon in London during the A Farewell to Kings tour in 1978.
EuCon is the annual convention in Europe of fans of the rock band Rush.
Originally called the UK Rush Convention it has been held in England annually since its inception on 14th July 1996.
This article of 1982 shows you some interesting links between Rush & Britain
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/rush/bio-rush.php
I grouped the bonds with Britain here:
About the 1978 tour (2nd time in Britain):
...In addition, every night was a sell-out. It eventually dawned on even my feeble brain that I was witnessing a rock and roll phenomenon. I was seeing a band break through to the major league in Britain on only their second tour of the country....
..That British tour was a sell- out two solid months before it started. Their first half dozen albums were selling as fast as they could be brought into the country to a hardcore but rapidly burgeoning legion of fans. What they were doing was breaking through in Britain in exactly the same inevitable inexorable manner that they had done in their native Canada and neighbouring United States...
(about Neil Peart)
...at the beginning of the Seventies, went to London to see if it was possible to make a full-time living out of music in what was then the rock capital of the world. Unlike fellow Canadian Pat Travers who was to do precisely that, Peart had no luck. He ended up selling souvenirs in London's tourist trap, Carnaby Street, before returning home when the money and the impetus ran out."..
...But there was also a certain gentleman by the name of Geoff Barton writing then - and now - for Sounds who was carrying on what was practically a one man crusade on behalf of Rush.
He got hold of a copy of 'All The World's A Stage' in November 1976 and gave it a rave review, rating it a five star album. He concluded a list of superlatives with the following advice: "Rush are probably the best undiscovered band in Britain at the moment. I strongly recommend you to check them out. Now."...
...One of their plans for the future which they announced at the end of 1976 was that they would be coming to Britain in the middle of 1977 to record their next album. Fans in Britain reasoned that if that were so the odds were that Rush would also be playing some live dates - their first outside of North America.
The decision to try recording in England was an interesting one. The band had never recorded outside of Toronto, at least not successfully.
At the end of 1976 they'd tried working in New York's Electric Lady Studios - the operation set up by the late Jimi Hendrix and immortalised on his 'Electric Ladyland' album with its notorious British cover. However they'd been forced to scrap what they'd done simply because they were dissatisfied with the results. One of the reasons was apparently that they didn't feel at home in an American studio - curious, since they were spending most of their time in the States at this stage.
Favourite studio for the new album, at the time, appeared to be George Martin's AIR Studios in London's Oxford Street. Easily one of the best appointed in the country it would have been a natural choice. Also it would have been something of a spiritual home-coming for Neil Peart since the last time he'd been in London he'd been working a stone's throw away in Carnaby Street selling trinkets to the tourists.
As it turned out, however, Rockfield Studios in South Wales were to get Rush's custom and the album they recorded there was the excellent 'A Farewell To Kings.' But that's getting ahead of ourselves. Before Rockfield beckoned Rush had a lot more dates to get through....
..The first time I spoke with Rush, Geddy and Neil were both resigned to the seeming fact that they would never get any radio airplay.
Geddy told me: "As far as we're concerned it seems that radio programmers don't believe we exist. No matter how many sell-out shows we do, no matter how many albums we sell they still don't seem to be interested. "I don't think there's any point in being bitter about it, though. It seems to be just a fact of life. As long as we keep pulling in audiences and selling records we believe that we're doing the right thing. Anyway, we've been on the road for so long now I don't think we could imagine any other kind of lifestyle."...
....There was quiet confidence in the Rush camp about the upcoming dates but significantly in Britain tickets for the three shows were put on sale well up front (about seven weeks ahead as a matter of fact).
Of course, they sold out within days. To appreciate the significance of that achievement you have to remember that this was the summer of '77. The Clash were singing 'London's Burning' and The Sex Pistols were finding it hard to get anywhere to play at all - and getting maximum publicity out of their predicament.
Rush seemed about as at home in this musical maelstrom as the Duke of Edinburgh would be at the Marquee. And yet they thrived.
The biggest surprise among the British rock critics appeared to be that a band like Rush came from Canada. Writer Dave Redshaw who reviewed Rush's Manchester date recalls his astonishment that Canada - land of Joni Mitchell and The Band - could cough up anything like Rush.
Redshaw zeroed in on the band's affection for Ayn Rand - a decidedly unfashionable stance in the punk days - and also likened Geddy's singing voice to that of David Surkamp of the relatively obscure Pavlov's Dog, a comparison that was to be repeated many times in the British rock press over the next few years.
What was highly important about those first dates in Britain was that it was obvious that Rush, despite little if any promotion, had sufficient fans for them to sell out major venues up and down the country.
In addition, those fans were sufficiently loyal to have searched out the Rush albums that were available in this country on import. As Redshaw recalls "They seemed to know every single riff that Rush played."
With those dates to their credit, plus the European ones which went equally well, Rush hightailed it to the wilds of South Wales and Rockfield Studios. They were to begin work on an album which had the working title of 'Closer To The Heart.' When it was finally released in September of 1977 it had been renamed 'A Farewell To Kings.'...
...All in all it was fair to say that Rush had broken through in Britain....
...'Hemispheres' probably more than any other Rush album brought the band in touch with a much wider audience.
Up till then they were still regarded very much in the symphonic end of heavy metal mainstream. 'Hemispheres' seemed to make the band an appealing prospect to the thousands of Yes and Genesis fans throughout the country...
...The band was set for 18 dates during April and May of 1979 - three nights at London's Hammersmith Odeon, two apiece at Newcastle, Glasgow, Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham and Bristol and one-offs at Edinburgh, Coventry and Southampton. The original plan was for them to do 36 dates, such was the demand by fans, but the band felt that they couldn't cope with such a large addition to an already exhausting schedule which they had set themselves.
After all, apart from Britain the band were also lined up to play dates in Germany, Holland, Norway, Sweden, Belgium and Finland in a six week sell-out tour.
Eventually, the number of nights they ended up playing at Hammersmith Odeon was five - a remarkable achievement for any band. Incidentally, before they set off for the tour they were awarded yet another Juno in Canada for being "Best Group Of The Year" and when they got to London they were presented with a silver disc for sales in Britain of 'A Farewell To Kings'.....
...However, within a month of their getting back home, it was announced in the music papers that Rush would be coming back to the UK to do a one-off show at the massive, barn-like Stafford Bingley Hall on September 21. The reason, according to the papers, was that Rush were planning to record their next album in the UK - the betting was on Trident in London as the favoured studio - and that they would take the opportunity to play a special concert here.
There had been such an overwhelming demand for tickets on the previous visit that Rush felt they should give the fans who had missed them a chance to see the band - and the people surrounding Rush obviously felt highly confident they'd have no trouble filling the 10,000 plus capacity hall.
No trouble? Too right - because within a week of the date being announced it had been sold out and the promoters, Straight Music, quickly organised another one for the following night. All in all 20,000 tickets sold without too much trouble at all - if anyone needed confirmation that Rush were a major act they had only to look at those figures.....
(about "Permanent Waves")
..The album was mixed at Trident on their British jaunt and it was eventually released in January, 1980. Two of the album's songs, 'Spirit Of Radio' and 'Free Will' were heard for the first time in the UK at the Bingley Hall shows and, significantly, the former received a tumultuous response. Almost on a par, in fact, with the classic 'Farewell To Kings'. The show that I went to - the first - was a complete and utter triumph for the band. I'm told by others who went to the second show that that one went equally well.
The band played for about two hours each night, punctuating their show with their spectacular light show. By the time it was over that first night the crowd filed out in an almost reverent fashion, as though they'd been witnesses to a religious experience, more than a rock concert....
...On the record front the band enjoyed spectacular success with 'Permanent Waves' spiralling up the album charts and eventually making Five in the three majors - Billboard, Cashhox and Record World.
In Britain it made number three....
..The fans were repaying Rush in kind on the record sales front by making 'Permanent Waves' go gold in the States, platinum in Canada and silver in Britain - all within two months of the album's release...
....Rolling Stone's David Fricke was far more on the ball and to the point. He wrote: "It's easy to criticize what you can't understand which at least partly explains why Canadian power trio Rush have suffered so much at the hands of rock journalists since the band's debut album in 1974." Fricke dished out praise all round and concluded with one of the most perceptive remarks ever committed to print by a rock journalist on the subject of Rush.
"Rush's problem has rarely been competence. They simply don't play fashionable music. If they couldn't cut it on their own terms it would be different but this band is among the very best in its genre.
"And, if the Top Five status of 'Permanent Waves' is any example it's a genre wherein critics don't count at all."
And that's exactly the point the band were trying to make with the album and its title. Neil Peart said 'Permanent Waves' was intended as a dig at the British music press which, he reasoned, by virtue of being weekly was desperate for new people to write about every week. As a result the press was either killing off somebody or raising up someone else as the "unheralded new God."...
....Still, if Rush didn't much like the British music press and the attitudes of most of its members they couldn't deny that they got plenty of coverage when their next British tour was announced.
The band were revealed as having a month long touring schedule in Britain for June, 1980. They opened at Southampton Gaumont (June 1 and 2), followed by five nights at London's Hammersmith Odeon (June 4 to 8 ), Glasgow Apollo (10 and 11), Newcastle City Hall (12 and 13), Leeds Queens Hall (15), Chester Deeside Leisure Centre (16), Manchester Apollo (17 and 18), Birmingham Odeon (20), Leicester De Montfort Hall (21) and Brighton Centre (22).
By the time the tour was announced ticket demand had already been quite remarkable. Simply on speculative mail order bookings, or information via word of mouth, Hammersmith Odeon had sold out for the first two nights, both shows at Glasgow Apollo had already gone and Newcastle City Hall reported that by the time their dates had been announced they'd had enough postal bookings to fill the place anyway....
(Neil Peart
..."We've worked so hard at establishing ourselves in Britain, for example, that when we come over here now we expect to have a good tour. I don't want this to sound conceited in any way but we expect sell-out concerts and we expect good responses from the audience.
"We put in the work and now we're seeing the results. Of course if we did a bad show I wouldn't expect a good response, but I'd be really surprised if we did a bad show these days.
"In America I think a lot of the disc jockeys are being forced to play our songs now because the kids are phoning them up and demanding that they play them. For me that's ideal. I don't want a jock playing our material because the record company promotion man is his best friend, or his brother-in-law. I either want them to play it because they're into it, or better still, play it because the kids want to hear it.
"It's pleasant enough getting response from radio stations and from the American press now but I can't say that we're all too excited about it. It's okay but we're not about to start celebrating because some jock has finally discovered who we are - they all had plenty of chances over the last eight years, when we really needed them. Now, it's nice to have them but I can't say that we really need them, now when we have audiences like the one we had here at Hammersmith and like so many of the crowds we're getting in America now.
"You know, it's tremendously satisfying to do well in Britain. It's not the most important market in the world in terms of record sales but we all have a special relationship with this country. I've lived here for a while, we've recorded several albums here and enjoyed doing them tremendously and we've also experienced a lot of loyalty from the fans. You really can't have a better relationship than that."...
(Tour which followed Moving Pictures)
....They weren't back on the road until October when they played a massive tour of the UK, not so much in number of gigs but the sheer size of venues - playing multiple dates in the biggest arenas Britain could offer, like Stafford Bingley Hall and Wembley Arena.
To coincide with that they finally got out their live album, 'Exit . . . Stage Left'. The band had done what they promised which was to take recordings from the last British tour and combine them with tapes from the North American tour....
(about "Exit...Stage Left")
...the British public who ordered 40,000 copies of the album before it was released....
In other words. Unfortunately you are wrong informed. The current media might not play Rush much, but media don't always tell you what's good or not, and also media don't tell you always what's popular or not. Let's look at our own beloved band, Iron Maiden. They became big, not because of the media attention. Because of their records, and concerts.
Ardius said:
Pink Floyd's music is the most opposite kind of music you can imagine.
Ardius said:
Alright.
Albie
Keeping an open eye on the Weeping Angels.
I agree with you that Metallica never actually sold-out - as such. They changed and some people did not like it and with a knee jerked reaction they screamed "sell out". Metallica has always maintained that they write what they want - not what they think people might want to hear, but to follow up a multi platinum selling MTV friendly album with another does not keep some people from thinking what they already want to think. And to say they would never do a promo video only to release One, did not help either.SinisterMinisterX said:
Raven
Ancient Mariner
Albie said:
It's rather interesting that both Megadeth and Slayer had released or would release videos around this time (Megadeth...1986, Slayer 1990), and yet the accusation was not levelled at them. I think many people saw the betrayal as more important than the actual event, but I don't see why a band cannot change their views 5 years down the line.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Sometimes, the driving force behind making a music video is not the cash to be gained from it, but the desire to create some sort of illustration to the music- One pretty much looks like that to me.
Albie
Keeping an open eye on the Weeping Angels.
Possibly the reason it was not levelled at them was due to the fact that they did not state they would not do a video at all - Metallica did make such a statement (as testified on their Cliff 'em All notes).Raven said:
Agreed. I still have this (original) video on VHS.Perun said:
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Slightly off-topic: Mercury's unseen side revealed
InfiniteDreamer
Trooper
At least Mercury, the planet, still had unknown sides to be revealed ...because Freddie revealed all of his sides, positions, likes, dislikes in his life !
Genghis Khan
Ancient Mariner
I can't believe Bon Jovi is not only still in this race, but actually has a strong chance of winning. I put my efforts behind Led Zeppelin.