Tournament of Instrumentals (r1): 73 vs 74 + 75 vs 76
- Thread starter Forostar
- Start date
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Don't forget to vote @Saapanael
Cornfed Hick
Ancient Mariner
Is there an error? 73 & 74 are the same track (Battle Hymn) on my screen. I see Saap's reference to Eruption, but that isn't what plays. (Eruption is fantastic, though.) I'll wait to vote for now.
EDIT: Now it's showing properly, must have been a problem with my internet connection. Red wins because it's a real song, not a mere intro. Also voted for Eruption.
EDIT: Now it's showing properly, must have been a problem with my internet connection. Red wins because it's a real song, not a mere intro. Also voted for Eruption.
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The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
74 & 76
A metal intro of 57 seconds beats a legendary prog rock instrumental. Typical. I looked up all the rounds so far to find out if there's any non-metal song that beat a metal song in its matchup. (Bear in mind that I went with the metal song in some of those matchups as well)
Round 1: Both matchups won by metal songs
Round 2: No metal songs featured
Round 3: Both matchups won by metal songs
Round 4: Both matchups won by metal songs
Round 5: Both matchups won by metal songs
Round 6: Both matchups won by metal songs
Round 7: One matchup won by metal song, no metal song featured in the other matchup.
Round 8: One matchup won by metal song, no metal song featured in the other matchup
Round 9: Both matchups won by metal songs
Round 10: One matchup won by metal song, no metal song featured in the other matchup
Round 11: One matchup won by metal song, no metal song featured in the other matchup
Round 12: One matchup won by metal song, non-metal song beats metal song in the other matchup (La Villa Strangiato, Rush)
Round 13: One matchup won by metal song, no metal song featured in the other matchup
Round 14: One matchup won by metal song, no metal song featured in the other matchup
Round 15: Both matchups won by metal songs
Round 16: Both matchups won by metal songs
Round 17: No metal song featured in one matchup, non-metal song beats metal song in the other matchup (Beck's Bolero, The Jeff Beck Group)
Round 18: Both matchups won by metal songs
Only two non-metal songs managed to advance against metal songs.
A metal intro of 57 seconds beats a legendary prog rock instrumental. Typical. I looked up all the rounds so far to find out if there's any non-metal song that beat a metal song in its matchup. (Bear in mind that I went with the metal song in some of those matchups as well)
Round 1: Both matchups won by metal songs
Round 2: No metal songs featured
Round 3: Both matchups won by metal songs
Round 4: Both matchups won by metal songs
Round 5: Both matchups won by metal songs
Round 6: Both matchups won by metal songs
Round 7: One matchup won by metal song, no metal song featured in the other matchup.
Round 8: One matchup won by metal song, no metal song featured in the other matchup
Round 9: Both matchups won by metal songs
Round 10: One matchup won by metal song, no metal song featured in the other matchup
Round 11: One matchup won by metal song, no metal song featured in the other matchup
Round 12: One matchup won by metal song, non-metal song beats metal song in the other matchup (La Villa Strangiato, Rush)
Round 13: One matchup won by metal song, no metal song featured in the other matchup
Round 14: One matchup won by metal song, no metal song featured in the other matchup
Round 15: Both matchups won by metal songs
Round 16: Both matchups won by metal songs
Round 17: No metal song featured in one matchup, non-metal song beats metal song in the other matchup (Beck's Bolero, The Jeff Beck Group)
Round 18: Both matchups won by metal songs
Only two non-metal songs managed to advance against metal songs.
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Crimson Idol
Caveman
I am not surprised. This is a metal forum, and even if it weren't, there is always just a chance people find those songs better.
For instance this round, sure Battle Hymn is only a 57 second intro and going into the round I kinda figured I wouldn't end up voting for it, but I just didn't enjoy "Legendary prog rock instrumental" at all.
For instance this round, sure Battle Hymn is only a 57 second intro and going into the round I kinda figured I wouldn't end up voting for it, but I just didn't enjoy "Legendary prog rock instrumental" at all.
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The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
If the forum's overall taste is that metal heavy, there really is no point in doing an "All Genres" game. That's the point in my arguments to begin with. This is essentially a Best Metal Instrumental game. I don't care about people's tastes, I can't do anything about it. I'm complaining about the lack of variety and very predictable voting pattern that doesn't do the "All Genres" style justice.
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Crimson Idol
Caveman
So basically, you DO care about people's tastes and are asking that they change them? Seeing as how the variety and voting pattern are a direct result of said tastes. Doesn't matter how many styles/genres are included, if people simply don't like them then they won't vote for them. It's not like people are going "I really like this song, but it's not metal so I won't vote for it".
Crimson Idol
Caveman
The format of the game doesn't matter at all. It's not a best metal instrumental game, it's a best instrumental game. The fact that people prefer the metal songs doesn't change what the game is. The game itself has plenty of variety in there, but people don't have to vote for them. Sure, there may not be much point in the variety if no one cares for them enough for them to get through, but that variety is there so complaining about a "lack of variety" has no basis at all, the game has it, the voters don't - and that is not something you can nor should complain about. Literally the only possible lack of variation that there is within this game is peoples tastes, which is no fault of the game itself.
Wow, The Flash.
Wow, The Flash.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
I'll do as you wish, master.
It's funny, during the world cup game a common complaint was that no metal bands were going through and that the forum doesn't like Metal. Now the complaint is too much Metal.
I get what Flash is saying though. People can vote for what they want, but the lack of variety in the results is a little bit predictable and boring. I was hoping to see a top ten that mixed well known with more obscure and Metal with other genres. Maybe give some people some new favorite bands. Nobody is complaining about people's tastes, like I said, people can (and should) vote for what they want. It's more the format of the game, I think it may have helped if the matchups were less randomized.
Anyway, first matchup both songs were good but Battle Hymn doesn't really work on its own the way other Metal intros do, so I went with the more interesting Red.
Second matchup was also easy. Lifeless boring Halloween vs Eruption.
I get what Flash is saying though. People can vote for what they want, but the lack of variety in the results is a little bit predictable and boring. I was hoping to see a top ten that mixed well known with more obscure and Metal with other genres. Maybe give some people some new favorite bands. Nobody is complaining about people's tastes, like I said, people can (and should) vote for what they want. It's more the format of the game, I think it may have helped if the matchups were less randomized.
Anyway, first matchup both songs were good but Battle Hymn doesn't really work on its own the way other Metal intros do, so I went with the more interesting Red.
Second matchup was also easy. Lifeless boring Halloween vs Eruption.
73 and 76. I didn't find this one too easy. Liked the sound of 73 best, but as someone said earlier, it's more of an intro than anything.
I have to confess I struggled with the second pairing too. Great guitar in 76, which tipped the balance in the end, but 75 actually felt like more of a complete song.
As for the game format - maybe I didn't read everything properly, but isn't Foro choosing the pairings at random?
I have to confess I struggled with the second pairing too. Great guitar in 76, which tipped the balance in the end, but 75 actually felt like more of a complete song.
As for the game format - maybe I didn't read everything properly, but isn't Foro choosing the pairings at random?
Crimson Idol
Caveman
Arranging the matches specifically so that the top 10 ends up with a mix of genres would defeat the purpose surely? As then it wouldn't actually be the top 10 at all. No matter the format, if people want metal songs to go through, they will.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
I didn't say anything about pairings. I only think the all genre thing doesn't work on this forum (in any game, be it an album based game or song based game of any form) so genre thing should be established. "Best Hard Rock/Metal Instrumental" game, for example.
He is, but I would've liked less randomization.
That's not what I'm suggesting at all. I would've liked to see the initial group be matched up according to genre. Metal songs against Metal songs, Prog songs against Prog songs and so on. And then after that it can be randomized. This probably wouldn't affect the top ten since people are still going to vote for the metal songs, but it would at least make early rounds more interesting and personally I'd have an easier time voting. Some of these matchups have been difficult for me because a lot of them are songs I'd have no reason to compare in the first place.
This is obviously a personal preference though.
EDIT: By the way, this isn't an attack on how Foro is running the game. It's a great setup otherwise, this is just the one thing I would've done differently.
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Forostar
Ancient Mariner
This is not done totally random. I have lots of seeded songs, in different gradings. Tracks which I estimated to be stronger than others and which I rather have not meeting each other in the first round. There are some more factors. E.g. I have also looked at the people and the songs they brought in. E.g., if someone brought two songs, then these should not meet each other in the first round. That's just one of such factors. I tried to give every player a chance with at least one of their songs. To keep it fun for the people involved. I also looked at the artists and tried to spread them a bit over the sheet. Still, this has been lots of guess work as well. I can't regulate what goes to round two. In lots of matches I can't predict what will be the most popular song.
Apart from some regulation, at the same time, I wanted to make this game a bit unpredictable (that's something I find interesting). To just pair all genres to each other would IMO be less interesting, and I am not sure if it would serve the purpose. The goal of the game is not to have every genre in an as comfortable position as possible. Also, I think less people would be involved when certain genres come on, every once in a while.
Flash has a point, and I have been saying it as well: 2014 is a time in which not many Maidenfans are into long, complex/proggy/you name it- tracks. Still, length is not an absolute measurement for popularity. Just look at a top 10 from any survivor; these do not consist out of the 10 shortest or longest songs. So, there's still an uncertainty when it comes to length. Personally, I can be moved by a great vibe or melodic acoustic guitar, even if it's one minute long. Who knows in advance how this work with others? I can't predict it because lots of songs might have never been heard before.
So instead of grouping songs per genre, I rather have people listening to everything when they play the game, as unprepared as possible (not knowing what kind of song will go on, until the moment they're playing the game (selecting a favourite) because it fits better to the idea behind this. I do that by mixing up various sounding stuff.
I like it that people do not have an easy time voting.
Comparing (or even listening to) music can be challenging. Nothing wrong with that.
I also understand Flash's view (and conclusion) on the voting pattern. But that's about the voting pattern and I do not think it does conclude anything about the set-up of the game. The pattern is something you can deduce from the result of the votes. Another factor which should not be untold is that the amount of people, who've brought in proggy songs, is small. Naturally there is a chance that this may reflect on the voting as well.
Perhaps there's interest in seeing only (legendary) prog songs battling each other. Well, we can always still organize that in a different game.
Apart from some regulation, at the same time, I wanted to make this game a bit unpredictable (that's something I find interesting). To just pair all genres to each other would IMO be less interesting, and I am not sure if it would serve the purpose. The goal of the game is not to have every genre in an as comfortable position as possible. Also, I think less people would be involved when certain genres come on, every once in a while.
Flash has a point, and I have been saying it as well: 2014 is a time in which not many Maidenfans are into long, complex/proggy/you name it- tracks. Still, length is not an absolute measurement for popularity. Just look at a top 10 from any survivor; these do not consist out of the 10 shortest or longest songs. So, there's still an uncertainty when it comes to length. Personally, I can be moved by a great vibe or melodic acoustic guitar, even if it's one minute long. Who knows in advance how this work with others? I can't predict it because lots of songs might have never been heard before.
So instead of grouping songs per genre, I rather have people listening to everything when they play the game, as unprepared as possible (not knowing what kind of song will go on, until the moment they're playing the game (selecting a favourite) because it fits better to the idea behind this. I do that by mixing up various sounding stuff.
I like it that people do not have an easy time voting.
Comparing (or even listening to) music can be challenging. Nothing wrong with that.It certainly is. I think it tells something how you listen to music. I have stated that when one plays this game, as much "bias" (or: factors) as possible should be tried to be denied. Leave out these genres, leave out intro/song or not song (Eruption is not a song and look how popular it is; The Alan Parsons intro is not a song according to some, but look how popular it is / length or other aspects. Just go to the core: the feeling of enjoyment when you play two songs. I find that interesting, to see how that works.
I also understand Flash's view (and conclusion) on the voting pattern. But that's about the voting pattern and I do not think it does conclude anything about the set-up of the game. The pattern is something you can deduce from the result of the votes. Another factor which should not be untold is that the amount of people, who've brought in proggy songs, is small. Naturally there is a chance that this may reflect on the voting as well.
What exactly does not work? Perhaps it doesn't work for you because you don't like to see so many prog songs eliminated? The game still works (I hope!). Because this has to work: The point of the game is to share and hear new music and find out which tracks are the most popular.
Perhaps there's interest in seeing only (legendary) prog songs battling each other. Well, we can always still organize that in a different game.
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The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
I'm not saying you should change the game's format Foro, I knew your essential idea was to make the game as diverse as possible to make people learn about new music which is why I tried to fill in with a lot of suggestions that mostly were non-metal tracks.
I'm absolutely disappointed by the outcome, not because prog rock tracks get torched, but any non-metal entry gets torched. I think I had different expectations from the forum members and didn't expect such a metal-oriented vibe. This is an Iron Maiden forum and Iron Maiden features just as much prog or hard rock elements as they feature metal elements, really.
I'm absolutely disappointed by the outcome, not because prog rock tracks get torched, but any non-metal entry gets torched. I think I had different expectations from the forum members and didn't expect such a metal-oriented vibe. This is an Iron Maiden forum and Iron Maiden features just as much prog or hard rock elements as they feature metal elements, really.