Jer
A window to the west, a blazing star above
You might also be pleasantly surprised by “Another Hit And Run” from the same album:
The Greatest Metal Song Cup - Part II, Round 3, Matches 55-60
- Thread starter LooseCannon
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____no5
Free Man
Awesome Stoner Rock from Greece, here are some other noteworthy songs (there are too many):
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
I’ma say it, all offense intended, because this is an awful take on a truly great song, but Ozzy >>> Dio.
Diesel 11 has been banned from Maidenfans.com. The moderators want to apologize for the offense he has levied.
The Dissident
Ancient Mariner
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
Re: Nightwish vocalists…
- Floor is, without a doubt, the most capable, consistent, broadly talented singer the band has ever had. Unfortunately, she joined the band during the nadir of Tuomas’ enjoyment of the genre that he (almost single-handedly) created.
- Anette’s albums, though often derided by fanboys, are peak Nightwish. I came to the band via Dark Passion Play, which I still think is their peak, and Imaginaerum is the “overdose” record. Tuomas proved his band concept with DPP and then had to take it one step too far before reinventing the entire band.
- Tarja, though iconic, was certainly not the perfect performance queen that fanboys make her out to be. Floor wipes the *ahem* floor with her any day in terms of consistency.
You know, IRYO and all, but it seems to me that regarding the vocalists, for a Tom Waits fan (for example) you are concentrating way too much solely on the technical aspects of the performance.
With that logic, yeah, Franks Wild Years is awesome, but it would be even more awesome if it was re-recorded with Dio vocals!
Kalata
Out of the Silent Planet
You should vote for the song you like better, not because we have ''enough'' nominees from a certain band.
This Nightwish song is far from uninspiring. And it's full of memorable vocal lines.
This part is so awesome and really elevates the song from the onslaught of riffs.
Tarja was perfect for the early era of the band and with her, the band was unique among the other female-lead vocal bands. They were at their best with her. She is great live and always will the best for the band. Floor is one of the best too, that's for sure. Imagine the Anette albums with her. She just joined the band when they decided to focus more on the instrumental parts, which is a waste with such a singer. I think Anetter sings better now than when she was in the band, although I like most of her studio performances. She had difficulties live with the older material, unlike Floor, she can sing everything, but Tarja is Tarja. At the end of the day, I think each of them is great for its era.
Another one of their best songs. With one of their best riffs.
This is a serious game, Diesel! Concentrate.
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Poto
Ancient Mariner
Nightwish were at their magical best with her though. With Floor it's a bit too polished, too nice. Tarja was perfect for the sound they had.
Dio is a better singer, but Black Sabbath was much better during the Ozzy era. Not because of Ozzy probably, Iommi just wrote better music back then.
Kinda similar to how Hagar is obviously a better singer than DLR, but the music was better when DLR was around.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
Indeed.
Hot take: I think that Floor would be actually much better fit in Epica, who are way more "loud" and more technically proficient and much less based on atmosphere.
To me, her in Nightwish is kinda like Michael Angelo Batio or Paul Gilbert joining Iron Maiden.
And like I said, Floor may be a better vocalist on paper, but even she just cannot do some of the stuff that Anette did, with Anette being light and breathy and slightly acrobatic in a way, her being more of a folky singer, whereas Floor is the bazooka that blasts everything in its path.
Amaranth live with Floor, for example, is absolutely terrible.
Kalata
Out of the Silent Planet
Hmm, Black Sabbath's albums with Dio are really strong.
That's actually true.
KidInTheDark666
What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine too
Strongly disagreed, I think their albums got way better once Ozzy was out of the band.
MindRuler
Ancient Mariner
Some of the last with Ozzy (like Technical Ecstasy) were pretty bland but their first remain the classics.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
As for innovativenes, personality, complexity of the songwriting and variation (including influences from outside the genre), the OG Ozzy albums are much grander, much more artful. That's the original metal band that loved Beatles just as much as being heavy. Also, Iommi's riffwork is legendary mainly because of the first 6-7 albums.
The Dio albums are fine, but the best (HnH) still sounds like Rainbow a bit too much and all the later ones are pretty spotty. Also, there's this tendency at least in particular songs to lose everything in a mindless, melodyless chug where only Butler himself saves the day (Turn Up the Night, The Mob Rules, Neon Nights etc...)
The Dio albums are fine, but the best (HnH) still sounds like Rainbow a bit too much and all the later ones are pretty spotty. Also, there's this tendency at least in particular songs to lose everything in a mindless, melodyless chug where only Butler himself saves the day (Turn Up the Night, The Mob Rules, Neon Nights etc...)
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
They certainly have different strengths and weaknesses, that's why I still hope there's going to be a reunion with all three vocalists one day à la Helloween.
I spent about 5 minutes on this during my lunch break, so don't judge it too harshly, but I would love seeing this live:
She Is My Sin (Tarja)
Noise (Floor)
Dead to the World (Tarja + Floor)
The Poet and the Pendulum (Anette)
Amaranth (Anette)
Planet Hell (Floor on Marco vocals, Tarja on hers)
Sacrament of Wilderness/Crownless (Tarja)
Nemo (Tarja)
The Islander (Floor on Marco vocals, Anette doing the backing ones)
I Want My Tears Back (Floor + Anette)
Élan/Alpenglow (Floor)
The Last Ride of the Day (Anette)
Beauty and the Beast (Tarja)
Ghost Love Score (Floor)
Dark Chest of Wonders (Tarja and Floor)
Bless the Child (Tarja and Anette)
Wishmaster (all three)
Shmoolikipod
Stranger to the Light
You can use whatever excuse you want to break ties.
The reasoning is not relevant, just vote for the song you think should win. Most people will generally pick the song they like the most. Some will hate-vote against bands. Judas will vote contrarian for no real reason other than to be contrarian. Sometimes I listen to 10 seconds of a song and pick which 10 second blip I like most. It's not always fair, but that's life.
Kalata
Out of the Silent Planet
True, but we compare the strength of the songs. The first 2 albums with Dio also have legendary songs (and riffs) for the metal.
Of course there will be a hint of the Rainbow sound on them. Tony Martin's albums are solid imo. I think songs like Neon Knights and Mob Rules don't need any more different parts to be great. Not every song on an album has to have the same structure or formula.
Fair enough.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
I'm not even gonna touch the heresy being spoken here about Dio Sabbath. 'Tis a silly place to go.
As far as vocalists go, my main concern is whether they fit the music. Whether they sound right for the song. Tom Waits always sounds right for his songs, because he writes them. He inhabits them. He is those songs. It doesn't matter that he's not a world-class singer, he's a world-class songwriter and vocalist. I can't honestly compare Tom Waits to the lead singer of a symphonic metal band who performs songs written by someone else. They're not comparable.
I do also differentiate between "singers" and "vocalists". Some people are just one or the other, some (the best) are both. I think Floor and Tarja are both, I tend to think of Anette as more of a vocalist.
Focusing on the technical aspects of a performance is literally the singer's job. Do we not judge the band by their instrumental performance? It's their job. Sure, there's a lot to be said for a spirited, wild, less technical live performance, but come on: we're talking about replicating symphonic metal operatics, and you can't just be "good enough" at a gig for that.
Floor is capable of incredibly light, breathy vocals. She's actually far breathier than Anette, who has more of a consistent "bell" tone to her voice (think Disney Princesses, of which I am, sadly, very familiar). The reason Floor is great, despite being a bazooka during live performances, is her versatility. She can be light and breathy, she can belt, she can do opera, she can growl - she's a Swiss Army Knife.
Anette has a great sound and she exists purely within that sound, with very little room to stretch outside of it.
I would pay so much money to hear Franks Wild Years as sung by Dio!You know, IRYO and all, but it seems to me that regarding the vocalists, for a Tom Waits fan (for example) you are concentrating way too much solely on the technical aspects of the performance.
With that logic, yeah, Franks Wild Years is awesome, but it would be even more awesome if it was re-recorded with Dio vocals!
As far as vocalists go, my main concern is whether they fit the music. Whether they sound right for the song. Tom Waits always sounds right for his songs, because he writes them. He inhabits them. He is those songs. It doesn't matter that he's not a world-class singer, he's a world-class songwriter and vocalist. I can't honestly compare Tom Waits to the lead singer of a symphonic metal band who performs songs written by someone else. They're not comparable.
I do also differentiate between "singers" and "vocalists". Some people are just one or the other, some (the best) are both. I think Floor and Tarja are both, I tend to think of Anette as more of a vocalist.
Focusing on the technical aspects of a performance is literally the singer's job. Do we not judge the band by their instrumental performance? It's their job. Sure, there's a lot to be said for a spirited, wild, less technical live performance, but come on: we're talking about replicating symphonic metal operatics, and you can't just be "good enough" at a gig for that.
I completely agree that Tarja and Anette were perfectly suited for their era of the music. I also agree that Floor, unfortunately, could be given much better material that fits her voice more appropriately.
"Absolutely terrible" is a bit much, but I do agree it does not suit Floor's voice. But if we're comparing, I'd take Floor's live version of Amaranth over most of Anette's live versions of Tarja material.
Floor is capable of incredibly light, breathy vocals. She's actually far breathier than Anette, who has more of a consistent "bell" tone to her voice (think Disney Princesses, of which I am, sadly, very familiar). The reason Floor is great, despite being a bazooka during live performances, is her versatility. She can be light and breathy, she can belt, she can do opera, she can growl - she's a Swiss Army Knife.
Anette has a great sound and she exists purely within that sound, with very little room to stretch outside of it.
That would be amazing, but I just don't ever see it happening. Firstly, for monetary reasons: they can't pay three lead vocalists an equal wage and there's no way in hell Tarja is doing it for less than Floor. And I can bet with the way she was fired from the band that Anette would also demand equal pay. Secondly, they'd have to do a bit of downtuning for Tarja and Anette. Tarja has been singing in more of a mixed tone for awhile due to age. She stills sounds very good, but her operatics are not what they used to be on the old Nightwish material. I don't even think Anette performs live anymore and she couldn't pull off her songs too well in 2015, so, I can't imagine it's gotten any better.
Wild takes like what Diesel posted about Dio and Ozzy is what I come to this forum for. Well done!
I agree with NP though. Heaven and Hell is an all time great, maybe the best of all the Sabbath albums, but the other two are not very good at all. Meanwhile, with the exception of Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die, all Sabbath albums with Ozzy are classics and it's easily their best work. Ozzy just fit the band better. Even the reunion album, 13, is better than the reunion album they made with Dio (although I'm not crazy about either).
Also, since this is mainly about Ozzy's solo work, I will take a lot of that over Dio's solo work as well. We're talking about cornerstone Metal albums here and it's definitely one of the weird Maidenfans quirks that Ozzy era Sabbath and Ozzy in general isn't that well regarded around here.
I agree with NP though. Heaven and Hell is an all time great, maybe the best of all the Sabbath albums, but the other two are not very good at all. Meanwhile, with the exception of Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die, all Sabbath albums with Ozzy are classics and it's easily their best work. Ozzy just fit the band better. Even the reunion album, 13, is better than the reunion album they made with Dio (although I'm not crazy about either).
Also, since this is mainly about Ozzy's solo work, I will take a lot of that over Dio's solo work as well. We're talking about cornerstone Metal albums here and it's definitely one of the weird Maidenfans quirks that Ozzy era Sabbath and Ozzy in general isn't that well regarded around here.