The case AnC^MaRiNeR

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AnC^MaRiNeR seems to have become a special case on the Commentary's forum and I'd be interested to know what you lot make of his rantings and ravings. Do you consider him a nuisance or does he make you laugh?

I personally take what he says with a massive pinch of salt (a few tons of the stuff, actually! [!--emo&:P--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--] ) and I find what he writes rather amusing. Amusing, well... except in a few instances where some kind of racism was made apparent, although I'd like to think that this is due to language difficulties and not to the character being a real racist himself.

On the other hand, I know that a few people here have been offended by the content of some of his posts and I don't want my visitors thinking that I allow all sorts of crap happening on my forum. This is why I have had an idea.

Although it's nice to argument with him and I've seen a few interesting exchanges on the forum, AnC^MaRiNeR's posts shouldn't be on a "serious" forum such as the Commentary's where we are supposed to discuss Iron Maiden songs. This is the best way to make newcomers run away and never come back.

So what would you do? I am personally in favour of not banning our resident Sci-Fi author and of creating a special forum just for him instead, so he can express himself without disturbing the rest of the discussions. It can be entertaining and shouldn't be taken too seriously.

As for AnC^MaRiNeR himself (I know you'll read this! [!--emo&^_^--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/happy.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'happy.gif\' /][!--endemo--] ), I'd like to have your opinion too. If a special forum is created for you, will you stick to it and avoid posting in the songs discussion? I have nothing against little green men from Andromeda, but they have nothing to do in the Commentary's forum.


So now, I am waiting for your feedback -- from all of you who feel concerned by this topic. And when you vote, please also leave a little explanation of why you voted the way you did [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
Make a sub-forum in the Madness forum for him [!--emo&;)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'wink.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

Don't ban him though, banning is never good. The more people who are banned the more people cry 'censorship' and stay away from the board.
 
I vote sub-forum, but I'd also make it a Commentary sub-forum instead of the usual Madness area. This is where he likes to post, after all.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-SinisterMinisterX+Feb 28 2004, 09:07 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ Feb 28 2004, 09:07 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] I vote sub-forum, but I'd also make it a Commentary sub-forum instead of the usual Madness area. This is where he likes to post, after all. [/quote]
My thoughts exactly!
 
As much as I like the idea of a sub-forum for him I rather he be banned. Sure it is censorship, but he is the only person in this forum who makes such irrational, ridiculous and sometimes racist post CONSISTANTLY. I vote for banning him because he is a nuissance. Creating a sub-forum for him does two things, makes him special and he is not, and he also shouldn't be here for our amusement, he is not a pet nor our jester, turning him into one will be worse for the forum in the effect that what does that say about the people running it and the people posting here?
 
An alternative would of course be to moderate all of his posts so only the acceptible ones get through.... but then is that greater censorship than a banning?
 
That's just more work for you guys! [!--emo&:rock:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/headbang.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'headbang.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
Keep him he makes me laugh with some of his crap albeit..... Creating a Sub forum and place him there dedicate his rantings ........ but nah dont ban him
 
It wouldn't be a bad idea having a madness forum, i swear i ll only post there, and maybe that way what i write will sound consistent. Instead of bits and pieces everywhere,( I tend to think everyone read my other guest posts,, and the everyone actually was like only 2 people; Mavz and loosecannon) and i will paste alot of things!!!!,( thats due to my nativeness) , And i wont be racist, those comments were made at the spur of the moment thing,, (I love Jesus).
 
The KKK, The Inquisition, Hitler and Bush love Jesus too. In other words that doesn't save you from not being racists, watch your comments and think before you write. I often come to the board angry sad or something on the board makes me angry, I think about it for a couple of hours, think up a response and then post. If not my post wouldn't make a lot of sense (not that they do already lol).
 
Give him the madness forum but if he becomes too much then give him the boot ..... didnt like like his last little comment but all is forgiven but give him the forum so we can toast him with his silling rantings ....
 
I vote leave him alone. Not because I do or don't think he's funny. I'm just uncomfortable with the act of isolating one person's contributions for being too "far out."

Either proposed solution -- a ban or a special forum -- would bar him from participating here, with us. How is that a good thing for him or for us? A special forum may give the appearance to everyone (particularly newcomers) that his views have the unofficial sanction of the board, since they'll have privilege of place in a forum where we aren't all there posting counterpoints or more "rational" alternatives.

But most importantly I don't like the idea that someone making an honest attempt to discuss what the songs mean to him/her would be barred. It feels a wee bit totalitarian. If his -- or anyone else's -- views are not credible, I think the best course is to trust members and guests alike to discern this. And if his posts are competing with the rest of ours, then I think we should trust ourselves to be more persuasive.

Furthermore... AnC^MaRiNeR's posts may be nonsensical, but even if we discount them I think we can find nuggets of interest in them. The sci-fi voyeurism they afford is entertaining, and if we use our imaginations, these ravings may lead us to other considerations we might not have arrived at otherwise. Take the following sequence from a post in the Out of the Silent Planet thread:
[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]the red demon like thing on the Number of the beast poster is a draconian, a wingless one.

plz dont say its irrelevant , plz, coz it is!!!!!!! relevant. There super city posters r cities of advanced races,,
Close this mind dull this brain
B4 messiah fall..


Our world leaders hav sold us out long time ago, 

The blind man shouts , let the creatures out and show the unbelievers,

The time is close near,, When california divides into 8 islands due to an earth quake remember me, coz thats a plan too.
[/quote]
We have a mixture here of direct references to scattered Maiden lyrics and artwork and otherworldly conspiracy fantasy. The leaps it makes are not rational, but they are intriguing in their way. Apart from Eddie himself, what are the themes that cross over from album cover to album cover? Are they significant? I've never seen anyone else propose that they are. Obviously they do not herald the galactic hegemony of an alien super-race. But one man's conspiracy fantasy may lead a more rational mind to ask new questions: who are those background figures in the NotB cover, and what if anything do they have in common with the background figures in the SiT cover, and the Powerslave cover, and others? It appears that background chaos is something of a theme for Mr. Riggs in his landscapes... is this a theme reflected in the songs? Is this where the affinity between artist and band emerged? What the hell, I'm just rambling, brainstorming... the point is, these could be interesting questions, and they are certainly questions I had never asked myself until reading AnC^MaRiNeR's post. And I haven't even gotten to the slightly less mad parts about the theme of "leaders selling us out" as rendered in Two Minutes to Midnight.... By responding to madness, we may occasionally stumble on wisdom.

Now, if he were posting deliberate hate speech, that would be something else -- that's crossing a line that can't be tolerated. But I don't see our strange friend in that light. I think forcibly removing him would be a mistake, both ethically and practically. That's my $0.02.
 
Very good point! I agree there might be some insight to his madness. HOWEVER, I still move for banishment UNLESS he starts writting coherently. My biggest problem with him is his hostility towards the other members of the board, calling us 'blind' and 'pagans' and throughing in racist comments to top it off. This hostility turns off the reader to any insight his post might contain. I see no reason why he shouldn't stay if he changes his writting. I don't see banishment as totalitarian, we are voting after all! But either he stays or he goes, a special forum is not an option (for reasons i've expressed in other posts and supported by comments by zgodt).
 
I've been reading all of your answers with great interest. You all have many enlightening views on this special case.

The fact that AnC^MaRiNeR's post are pretty far-fetched and incoherent does not seem to bother the vast majority of you. However, some racism -- which is not always blatant -- does. And rightly so!

AnC^MaRiNeR has been talking about the Jews in pretty disgusting terms, but then again he's done the same thing with the so-called "Alpha-Draconians". To me, it is not really clear anymore to whom he refers when he mentions "them".

What are my options here?

1. I create a special forum for him. Then, I give his rantings and ravings more importance than they deserve. I not only make him special, but I also implicitly condone what he's writing -- which I don't! This would also imply that AnC^MaRiNeR is being treated like some kind of freak in a circus. Regardless of what he posts, he is human and has human feelings. He cannot be considered a pet of the forum.

2. I leave him free to post whatever he likes wherever he feels like it. Then many visitors will get upset to see their well-thought thread polluted by inane ramblings, and some may be offended -- as it is already the case -- by the content of his posts and by the latent racism they seem to contain.

In both cases nb 1 and nb 2, the forum gets swamped by posts that have nothing to do there and I run the risk of seeing valuable contributors to my forum simply leave because they've had enough. This leaves me with a third possibility:

3. I ban him. Then, the forum will continue its fruitful discussions without his crazy interventions. On the other hand, I'll pass for some kind of dictator who doesn't tolerate some opinions, as wacky as they may be. Well, I'm supposed to be the boss here anyway...


So the only option to me seems to be a ban of AnC^MaRiNeR. I don't want to disrespect him and treat him as part of some kind of freak-show, and I don't want my contributors to get upset and stop posting.

Although the ban only had the minority of the votes, I consider that this is probably for the best. I'm sorry for not respecting the democratic vote I tried to implement, but a forum is a bit like a rock band, as R.J. Dio put it: "a democracy with a dictator". If no one makes a decision, nothing will be achieved.

AnC^MaRiNeR is there fore banned from posting and his posts will be removed.
 
I'm going to have to toss in with Maverick. Not because I think he's totally right, and I believe this was a hard choice on his behalf. But I have been offended a few times by the AnC's postings. And I'm not the only one. I know Le Hibou - The Owl has been as well.

I hope none of you go off on Maverick for making this choice. Yes, it does seem a bit totalitarian. But I can assure you that he's considered all the options and selected the one he thinks will be the best for the forum.

On a side note, I think it's interesting how much serious discussion this case has generated. Lots of people came out with many interesting and intelligent points. I think everyone who contributed deserves a high five.
 
I am forced to agree with Maverick.

The arguement of "freedom of speech and expression" does not, in my opinion, apply in this case. In most democratic nations, a person is free to speak his/her mind onall issues UNLESS that opinion is harmful to another person/people.

This means that racist comments cannot be defended. Admittedly, I am probably the newest person on these forums, but after having read some of AnC^MaRiNeR's past posts, I don't think his opinions and views reflect the spirit for which these forums were created.

His posts, while sometimes comical, add nothing to the discussions, and can be annoying at times.

Good move, Maverick!
 
I'm a bit sad to see it happen, but I can't argue with the logic behind the ban. I guess we'll have to be happy confining our discussions to Maiden-related topics now!
 
[!--emo&:(--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/sad.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'sad.gif\' /][!--endemo--] Well, you do what you feel you must.
 
It didn't appear on this thread, but I made my choice clear in other posts (now deleted) and on email sent directly to Maverick : I was, and in an angry way, for the ban.
I followed what was said on this thread and very much agreed with Onhell's post (except for the censorship part) :

[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]As much as I like the idea of a sub-forum for him I rather he be banned. Sure it is censorship, but he is the only person in this forum who makes such irrational, ridiculous and sometimes racist post CONSISTANTLY. I vote for banning him because he is a nuissance. Creating a sub-forum for him does two things, makes him special and he is not, and he also shouldn't be here for our amusement, he is not a pet nor our jester, turning him into one will be worse for the forum in the effect that what does that say about the people running it and the people posting here ?[/quote]

As far as I am concerned, this is not a question od censorship of dictatorship.
AnC^Mariner had already been banned for a short time because of what he wrote. He therefore had been warned of the problem. Still, he went on and wrote again some rubbish. He took his responsabilities and knew what he was doing.

This is a forum where people from all over the world are talking. But we never met, we don't know the feelings of the others and I think we must take care not to offend the others.
That doesn't mean we must only talk about maiden related subjects. I think we can discuss any subjects as long as we are discussing it with a minimum of respect, courtesy and tolerance.
 
Very well said, Hibou. I think everyone should ignore my post and read his instead [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
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