Should we set limits to science and knowledge?

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Mad, deluded, and downright evil -- these are only few of the negative characteristics associated with scientists in popular culture. From Mary Shelley's Frankenstein to Margaret Atwood's Crake, scientists have endured reputations best described as at odds with the humanity they are supposed to serve. But what really lies at the core of such views?

To answer this question, we must look beyond conventional wisdom. In The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction, for example, John Clute and Peter Nicholls link the image of the scientist to a distrust of science and technology. While this approach provides a good starting point, it offers only a partial story. The answer is actually found at a more fundamental level -- that is, humankind's ambivalence toward knowledge and the limits that we feel we must set in our pursuit of it.

Many of us are well aware that the push for science to concern itself with gathering information rather than advancing knowledge is highly influenced by this ambivalence, affecting everything from what grants gets funded (see one of my earlier rants) to what research gets published. On a side note, the recent resistance to stem cell research by the US government demonstrates how strongly science can be influenced by fears of man "playing God".

And this ambivalence also affects the image of scientists in popular culture, going back even 2,500 years to the first depiction of a scientist in Western literature: Socrates in Aristophanes' 5th Century BC play, Clouds. Clouds ridicules the "Athenian Enlightenment", and has a a nasty go at Socrates and the kind of knowledge he taught his students. Besides the fact that making fun of popular figures was commonly accepted in Greek comedy, why did Aristophanes portray Socrates so harshly? This is an important question to ask, mostly in the light of the fact that Plato, Socrates' student, claimed that Clouds influenced the jury to sentence Socrates to death for corrupting the youth and showing impiety toward the gods.

Aristophanes, obviously, took some literary license with Socrates, but the play does reflect a general nervousness emerging at the time, and therefore hit a raw nerve with its audience. Because Socrates was teaching the youth of Athens to question the notion of "truth," it was feared that he was asking them to question authority -- all authority, even that of the gods and their existence, a convention that enhanced the stability of the State. Furthermore, he taught students to explain the world as scientific phenomena rather than as responses borne out of the gods' whims, a stance resulting in one of the first documented rifts between science and religion.

By the time of Socrates, some Greeks were wrestling with the notion of the gods' existence, and even those that believed in the gods did not believe that the gods were essentially wiser than humans -- just that they lived forever and consequently attained an understanding that carried some level of authority over humans. Therefore, while the pursuit of knowledge and wisdom was regarded as a noble enterprise, it was also seen as one that must be limited to the hands of a select few with the proper authority. Literature (and Greek myth) is littered with human bodies punished for overstepping their bounds. Socrates, unfortunately, is an example of one that may not have been fictional.

The situation hasn't changed much since Socrates's day. The idea that knowledge corrupts because Man (as a species) is not capable of handling it wisely has prevailed throughout the evolution of science, from its philosophical roots to its current empirical and highly technological embodiment. We can also note that the same trend is evident in the move from pagan polytheism of the ancient Greeks to the monotheism present today in the three major religions of the planet -- Judaism, Christianism, and Islam.

We can see this view reflected in popular literature, particularly in science fiction. For example, Coppelius, the creator of the evil Sand-Man in Ernst Hoffman's The Sand-Man, is described as possessing an outward ugliness that reflects his inward depravity. Rappaccini, who kills his daughter in an experiment with botanical poisons, is portrayed as a sick and uncaring man in Hawthorne's short story "Rappaccini's Daughter". Dr. Moreau, the animal-butchering scientist from H. G. Wells's novel, The Island of Dr. Moreau, is both corrupt and physically hideous. Meanwhile, those who "play God" by giving immortal life, like Mary Shelley's Victor Frankenstein and Cornelius's Agrippa, are portrayed as arrogant, deluded men. And contemporary scientists, like Margaret Atwood's Crake from Oryx and Crake, and Pat Cadigan's Dr. Joslin from Synners, are frequently complete sociopaths.

As these narratives show, those who transgress the limits of human knowledge are depicted negatively as depraved, mad, and evil. Mankind's distrust of its own ability to use knowledge wisely compels us to set limits on what we can know, and it pushes scientists away from loftier pursuits and toward those more utilitarian -- in literature and, as Socrates' death suggests, in real life, as well.

So, should we set limits to knowledge, or should we simply make sure that appropriate committees oversee that the knowledge gained -- whichever it is -- is wisely used? The debate is now open...
 
It depends on the knowledge that the scientists have brought.  For example, if a scientist comes up with a "moral" issue, like cloning, (which is the most pupular), he/she will be depicted as mad, on the other hand, if he/she brings something like a cure to AIDS, that's when they will be cheered, and will be considered heroes.

We need to analyze what the scientific brought, seeing carefully if it will help mankind or if it is only new knowledge, but nothing relevant. Even though I like the idea that science should have no limits, we always have to respect what society has to say about it.  Society has a heavy weight towards this matters, it's sad though.

So, if a scientist comes with a "moral" issue, he or she must find a good reason to present it to the world, more than a reason, a very good excuse, since they have to carry on their back, society's opinion.
 
There once was a man, a Swedish scientist by profession, who in his search for more efficient methods of extracting ores, coal and other material from the mines in his country and througout the world, developed the infamous device we now know as TNT.  This man was shocked when, in 1888, he read his own obituary in a newspaper. 'The Merchant of Death is dead', it read, 'he who became rich by finding ever faster ways for people to kill each other'.  This man, the inventor of dynamite, was Alfred Nobel, who later founded the Nobel Prizes for Literature, Peace and Science, using his fortune to finance them. 

The question is not what limits we put on the knowledge we seek, but to what use do we put that knowledge, as Mav rightly said.  All knowledge can be used to benefit humanity, if we choose, but it may at the same time be used to further destroy ourselves.  I believe our role here on Earth is to further ourselves to the best of our ability, and that realistically the quest for truth and science (from the latin Scire: 'To know') should not be bounded by fears of misappropriate use of information that may be discovered.  For every Moreau or Frankenstein in fiction, there is a Van Helsing or a Doctor.
 
Nobel merely found a way to stabilise nitroglycerin. He didn't really invent anything. Although TNT is quite useful, as you said for ore extraction among other things, it's been used also for more gruesome purposes. Then again, so has fire, ever since Man found a way to make it and master it...
 
It is a commonly held myth among many in the scientific community that research is neutral and it is up to the society to decide whether to use knowledge for good or evil. Scientists (or any other form of researcher) have a responsibility tro forsee potential misuses of what they produce, and if the risk of harm is great enough to destroy their findings.
It has been a long time since I learned scientific ethics in high school (7 years, to be exact), but the very first thing we learned, before ever stepping foot into the lab, were the following:

Do no harm.
Attempt to do good.

Those two statements are not merely vice versa of one another. One can, of course, do no direct harm but still not do "good." Furthermore, it is possible to try to do good but inflict great harm.

Any researcher in any field of expertise should be aware of the potential consequences of what he or she is studying. If a researcher is attempting to do good, but his findings can be corrupted or perverted into a form of evil, the research should be modified or terminated.

In an extreme form of Enlightenment rationality, science in the late 20th and early 21st centuries has become almost completely detched from a sense of morality. The value of the individual is lost (a trend which is as equally a product of the militant secularism of today's post-structuralist society as it is one born within the scientific community) due to the compartmentalization of knowledge; liberal arts are scorned as "useless" because by their nature they cannot possibly produce a  marketable commodity, while "pure and applied science" (a term used by many universities which is self-evident of the lack of morality) is lauded as a good way to learn how to invent/discover new things to keep the economy going, wider implications be damned.
Remember, folks: Studying mathematics will help you count the bodies; studying history will help you stop the slaughter.

So what the heck did IronDuke mean by the above seemingly-pointless rant? Is he against science? Is he saying researchers are to blame for when their findings are used for evil purposes?
My point is this - Those who think, invent, discover, and research have a tremendous responsibility. As the "smartest" (not always, but usually) members of society, they have been given a huge amount of power over the fates of the rest of society. The are among the very few who should be able to "see", while those around them remind blind. They have essentially been handed a loaded gun and it is up to them do decided where they should point it and whether or not they should pull the trigger.

By my own logic, then, men such as Nobel and Oppenheimer are guilty. Not of murder, but at least of negligence.
 
If he had brains, he'd be dangerous, eh?

Maverick said:
So, should we set limits to knowledge, or should we simply make sure that appropriate committees oversee that the knowledge gained -- whichever it is -- is wisely used? The debate is now open...
Having a select committee to ensure knowledge gained is wisely used and distributed at their approval is a nanny state gone mad. Not really a good idea. If someone has the inclination to find more than they already know (and indeed, what no other person knows) and they wish to let others know, then so be it. And we will never stop people wanting to learn more - its human nature.

But then again; what we don't know can't hurt us - so if it kept from public consumption then we are none the wiser.
 
Albie said:
If he had brains, he'd be dangerous, eh?
Having a select committee to ensure knowledge gained is wisely used and distributed at their approval is a nanny state gone mad. Not really a good idea. If someone has the inclination to find more than they already know (and indeed, what no other person knows) and they wish to let others know, then so be it. And we will never stop people wanting to learn more - its human nature.

But then again; what we don't know can't hurt us - so if it kept from public consumption then we are none the wiser.

We also have to ask; is there a limit on the insanity of man?  We have seen the nightmares of Nagasaki and Hiroshima horrify the creators of that power ('Lo, I am become unto death'), and since then the majority of the world's population has realised that there have to be limits on warfare (Anti Nuclear Proliferation Treaty and SALT talks...which didn't work, but that's beside the point).  Thinking with IronDuke; if something potentially more destructive than a Hydrogen Bomb is discovered, would anyone be fool enough to use it offensively?  I think not, but then again I am quite naive when it comes to my estimation of the genocide some people would be willing to inflict on ourselves... :(
 
We could invert the debate (Blackie loves inverting things, and he's going to like this): how about "evil" research being used for good?

Some years ago, data was obtained by the Royal Air Force medics concerning hypothermia, its effects and what can be done to prevent death from it. They implemented what they deducted from the data and many pilots downed over the North Sea were saved thanks to a simple finding: that they should be pulled out of the water horizontally to prevent a backflow of the blood and subsequent arrest of the heart. Great stuff at saved many lives, and not just pilots!

However, it was made public that the data had been obtained in the Nazi concentration camps at the price of intense suffering and countless life loss. A debate was open and some actually proposed that the data should be destroyed and the findings never used again. Luckily, the courts decided that, no matter in what horrid conditions those results had been obtained, lives were now being saved thanks to them.

This apparently puts the discussion into a new light: whereas science should be performed for the good of people and can be "hijacked" by some evil minds, some "experiments" meant as inhuman torture can also be used for the benefit of Mankind.


Disclamer: I am not condoning whatever "medical research" took place in the death camps, as most of it was composed of irrelevant and useless "experiments" destined to make human beings suffer without thinking that the results could be used in any other way but torture. The "doctors" in charge were nothing but a bunch of despicable swines.
 
Silky said:
We also have to ask; is there a limit on the insanity of man?
Probably not. But as the Duke said,

IronDuke said:
Scientists (or any other form of researcher) have a responsibility tro forsee potential misuses of what they produce, and if the risk of harm is great enough to destroy their findings.

So if this scientist wishes to share their findings, it really is they that should have the say as to what should be divulged. And I do understand that a lot of powerful weapons have come from scientific discoveries and maybe, just maybe the discovering scientists may not have realised their potential.

I just don't like the idea of this committee deciding what is good for us or not - the story of 2112 sort of springs to mind, it was the priests (this "committee") that decided what they saw/knew/understood etc. They've taken care of everything.
 
The committee in question should naturally be composed of senior scientists, experts in their fields. We don't want a bunch of religious wackos decide, do we?  :rolleyes:
 
Maverick said:
The committee in question should naturally be composed of senior scientists, experts in their fields. We don't want a bunch of religious wackos decide, do we?  :rolleyes:
Indeed not, but it will still be a collection of (quite possibly) unelected people that will decide for us.
 
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