Music Downloading Creates Listener Apathy

I think your thread title is misleading. The article doesn't say downloading causes apathy; it says that the advance of technology makes music commonplace and thus less emotionally engaging for many people.

I'd agree with that, with the limitation that there is maybe 10% of the population who places a higher value on music. People who care enough about music to post in a forum like this are in that 10%, and we're far less susceptible to regarding music as a disposable commodity.

In fact, that's exactly why so many of us find bad pop music to be so personally offensive. We're accustomed to treating music as something that will be around for a while, something worth listening to, and it offends our sensibilities to hear music from people who don't care about art, but only money.

Techology may encourage a fast-food attitude in those persons who were already prone to it, but for us - the lucky 10% - it's only a good thing.
 
[!--quoteo(post=130931:date=Mar 6 2006, 06:05 PM:name=Black Dragon)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Black Dragon @ Mar 6 2006, 06:05 PM) [snapback]130931[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
I realise that Conor had written a rant on this but since there are quite a few new members here I thought I would kick start a discussion like this.
[/quote]
Here it is
It basically says that downloading is such an easy thing to do and is dragging the standars of the music industry down. On the other hand, there are some positive aspects, like new bands getting free advertisement, like DragonForce and The Arctic Monkeys (I don't like them but they are a good example) [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\";)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"wink.gif\" /]
 
The main culprits are people's impatience and fickle nature that cause industry standards to decline by selling watered down crap to the masses. After all, with pop, there's nothing beneath the catchy hooks is there? We don't call it bubble-gum pop for nothing you know. [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\";)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"wink.gif\" /] The flavour goes away quickly no matter how sweet tasting it was. Since you mentioned Dragonforce Conor, their new video had a considerable amount of the song cut out in order to make it digestable to the morons who watch MTV2.
 
[!--quoteo(post=130945:date=Mar 6 2006, 06:51 PM:name=Black Dragon)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Black Dragon @ Mar 6 2006, 06:51 PM) [snapback]130945[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
The main culprits are people's impatience and fickle nature that cause industry standards to decline by selling watered down crap to the masses. After all, with pop, there's nothing beneath the catchy hooks is there? We don't call it bubble-gum pop for nothing you know. [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\";)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"wink.gif\" /] The flavour goes away quickly no matter how sweet tasting it was.
[/quote]
People want the "here and now". We live in a society that moves so fast that people can't take two minutes out of their day for prayer, never mind listening to technical, sloggy prog metal. Music is transient, like the rest of society, attitudes and tastes change on a weekly basis, which makes the music industry so fickle as you said. Take Eminem for example. A couple of years ago he was all the rage, the most popular man on the planet. Now that phase has passed, there is somebody new to take his place. The conveyor belt of "talent" spewed out in the industry and the quick fix attitude really sickens me.
[!--quoteo(post=130945:date=Mar 6 2006, 06:51 PM:name=Black Dragon)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Black Dragon @ Mar 6 2006, 06:51 PM) [snapback]130945[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
Since you mentioned Dragonforce Conor, their new video had a considerable amount of the song cut out in order to make it digestable to the morons who watch MTV2.
[/quote]
I'm sure DragonForce wouldn't complain about their work being modified if it earns them a few more pounds [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\";)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"wink.gif\" /] We're all capitalists deep inside but the difference between DF and the rest of popular bands is that DF could be around for quite a while. they don't need MTV2 or Kerrap to sell records. Their musicmanship and persistance will see them as one of the best metal bands of the noughties. [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/cool.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\"B)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"cool.gif\" /]
 
[!--quoteo(post=130975:date=Mar 6 2006, 09:35 PM:name=Conor)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Conor @ Mar 6 2006, 09:35 PM) [snapback]130975[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
People want the "here and now". We live in a society that moves so fast that people can't take two minutes out of their day for prayer, never mind listening to technical, sloggy prog metal.[/quote]

Another thing that annoys me is that people want the cleanest productions ever, but in my humble estimation, such a production can render the music inorganic and lifeless. (Listen to Judas Priest's Turbo or Def Leppard's Hysteria and see what I mean). Right now, I'm listening to Bathory's The Return which has a very raw production that amplifies the evil atmosphere (it is called "the most evil album of all time" after all [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/happy.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\"^_^\" border=\"0\" alt=\"happy.gif\" /]). On the other hand, most people would call the production tasteless or "just noise" because they would just judge it after three seconds flat instead of sitting down, putting on a pair of headphones and absorbing the atmosphere of the album. (although I do respect the fact that extreme metal bands aren't interested in making their music sound pleasing to a wide audience and don't compromise themselves to make what they want). Oh well, mass appeal and selling out are some things I will never understand in my lifetime. For I am mortal, and I don't have all the answers.
 
I don't identify with that at all. I do recognize that it is happening, but like SMX said, I want to kiss Steve Jobs' feet for creating the iPod, I get to listen to all my music to which I'm emotionally invested with where ever I go! That is awesome being on a 24 hour Maiden/Metal/classical/(insert whatever genre high.

What Conor said is quite true too. One of the things people tell me is, "how can you listen to such long songs?" Um... oh I don't know, becaue they're good? I think being able to listen to a 13:00 minute song is like being able to read a 800 page book or watching a 3 hour movie (that isn't Titanic...ugh). It takes deep appreciation of the art form.
 
I got an MP3 player about half a year ago. It has a storage volume of 256 MB, which means it will fit between 50 and 100 songs, depending on the filesize (I rip them at lower quality, which also means they are considerably smaller, but I also download files or receive them from other people).
I listen to it all day at work, or while riding the bus, waiting for lectures... anything where I'm not at home and I'm alone. I change the playlist about once per week on average, sometimes more often, sometimes less. One thing about my playlists is that the songs always fit together. Right now, I've got a list that is purely Maiden, after many weeks where the max number of Maiden songs was maybe five. It is emphasized on live songs (much from Beast Over Hammersmith and the 1998 Madrid bootleg) and recent stuff (many songs from BNW and DOD; everything from VXI, either live or studio). It also contains a few classics.
I never, ever throw together happy and melancholy songs, unless they fit together for some reason. The big problem is that I have limited control over the track order, and that I will listen to the list at least twice a day. So, the playlist must work in a random order and it must have replay value. So I don't include stuff I like to listen to once in a blue moon. That is why my MP3 player is usually crammed with nothing but my favourite music: Maiden, BLAZE, Bruce, Judas Priest, Deep Purple, Pink Floyd, Dio, etc. The consideration is: I must like it, else I'm torturing myself. When I'm at home, I will put on stuff I'm trying to get into or that I want to give a listen to because I haven't played it in a while. Not always, but often enough.
So this does not mean I'm not open-minded to other music when I am only listening to Maiden the whole day out, but it's cool consideration.

Now, to my appreciation of music. My basic rule is, if it does not give me something to make my mind going, it is not worth listening to. A guitar solo can already make my imagination go wild. For example, whenever I hear the instrumental section of "The Thin Line Between Love And Hate", I think of a lake in a mountainous landscape. Don't ask me why. But this sort of thing keeps going on in my mind.
That is also why I don't like a lot of music many people think I should like. For example, I am a big fan of Queen. No matter if it's the early hard rock days, the later pop days or anything else, I like almost everything in their discography (except for half the Hot Space album). So, people have recommended to me bands like Radiohead, Oasis, Weezer, Green Day and even Robbie Williams, with the argument "it's not that different". To me, it is. With Queen, I can lay back, close my eyes and let my mind going if I have the desire to. Bands like Weezer (Perunish for "overrated") sound just too much like they're trying to be modern, avantgarde and controversial, without reaching any sort of musical depth. Robbie Williams is an admittedly great singer, but his music is entertainment, nothing more. I don't listen to music for entertainment. I do that when I go to bars or something like that.

Oh well, this is going to go nowhere, so I'll better stop here.
 
your mp3 player has 256 MB?! DAMN perun... you know, 1 GB players have become quite affordable, you need to upgrade! the only reason I got my iPod is because I like having ALL my music with me because I never know what I'll be in the mood for and I like having it on random and not know what song out of all 3650 will come next. I have several playlists and for the past month I've had my "power metal" playlist (which has the largest selection after the main library with over 1000 songs) playing non-stop. I even go to sleep with it and I wake up to my 70's pop playlist. It is soothing to wake up to "Dancing Queen" [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":D\" border=\"0\" alt=\"biggrin.gif\" /]
 
[!--quoteo(post=131145:date=Mar 8 2006, 01:11 AM:name=Onhell)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Onhell @ Mar 8 2006, 01:11 AM) [snapback]131145[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]The only reason I got my iPod is because I like having ALL my music with me[/quote]

That's why I don't like iPods. They're too convenient. You're not supposed to be able to get your music that easily. You're supposed to have to work for it. Besides, most people I see with iPods are just trendy prats who wouldn't be bothered to buy the proper CD. (Not that the stuff they listen to is actually worth 1 tenth of the price [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/sleep.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\"-_-\" border=\"0\" alt=\"sleep.gif\" /]) Hell, I still listen to cassetes and people make fun of me for doing so, not that I care (although one comment of particular interest I got was "Have you still got your VCR rigged up at home?"). Bah, humbug! But hey, I'm just old school right? [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\";)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"wink.gif\" /]
 
21 days BD, you really must be bored or in desperation of bumping your thread.

What's wrong with having your full music collection with you at any time? Is that not tr00 enough for you? From what I can judge you by, you seem to take music on such a superficial level. Not everybody who owns an iPod is a "trendy prat"... Just like Onhell said [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/cool.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\"B)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"cool.gif\" /]
 
I'm just irritable these days, that's all. Getting old you know. [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\";)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"wink.gif\" /]
 
[!--quoteo(post=133411:date=Mar 30 2006, 12:24 PM:name=Black Dragon)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Black Dragon @ Mar 30 2006, 12:24 PM) [snapback]133411[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
That's why I don't like iPods. They're too convenient. You're not supposed to be able to get your music that easily. You're supposed to have to work for it. Besides, most people I see with iPods are just trendy prats who wouldn't be bothered to buy the proper CD. (Not that the stuff they listen to is actually worth 1 tenth of the price [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/sleep.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\"-_-\" border=\"0\" alt=\"sleep.gif\" /]) Hell, I still listen to cassetes and people make fun of me for doing so, not that I care (although one comment of particular interest I got was "Have you still got your VCR rigged up at home?"). Bah, humbug! But hey, I'm just old school right? [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\";)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"wink.gif\" /]
[/quote]
Just cause I have an iPod doesn't mean I buy my music online, actually the Music store has a very crappy metal selection (read practically non-existant). I hate buying music online anyway, I buy cds, I have a lot of them and I don't want to carry them around in my back pack or have them in my car where they can get scratched and/or stolen. My room is a fucking mess, only my cds and my books are in order, in other words I may put a little too much importance on disposable commodities, but I like them, enjoy them and take care of them. Thus, being able to have all my cds on one mp3 player means my precious cds can stay safely in their case and I can take them anywhere without worrying about getting them scratched, not having enough room in my back pack for them or them getting stolen. If my iPod gets stolen... well tough shit, but in the end I still have all the "hard copies" at home, if the cd gets stolen I'm only left with the mp3 file which can get corrupted or erased and it's gone forever.
I can burn a copy you say? sure... but it is no longer the ORIGINAL cd. So it is more than a matter of convenience, it is about loving music more than life itself... in my case anyway.
I do agree however that most of the people I see with iPods have them just because they can afford them (I'm still paying for mine) and because they are "in". But that is them.
 
I kind of feel like an outside in this thread...
...fact is, I download music quite a lot. Well, not a whole load (maybe one album every once in a while, if I haven't bought a CD for ages), but the point is, I delete it if I don't like it (I'm so picky with my music that anything I probably won't like doesn't get downloaded, anyway [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\";)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"wink.gif\" /] ). I have an mp3 player, and like to have all my music with me, so if I can't decide what album to listen to, I can just put it on shuffle until I get the 'urge' for a particular artist or album. However, I take a special joy from buying a new CD. It's not just about the music. Being able to blast the CD out of my Hi-Fi in all its natural glory is brilliant, but the presentation, the booklet and actually owning something by the band/artist you like is the best part.
And on a final note (now that I've been reminded by the BitTorrent of Beast over Hammersmith I was downloading finishing), sometimes finding the albums you want to buy is half the trouble. I'm going to try and get all the albums I've downloaded sometime in the future ('atoning for my sins', I joke to my friends), but since my local store is crap and many of my favourite bands are foreign, therein lies the problem-the availability of music. Many CDs online, even if you can import them, are hiked up in price, and the postage fees are often exorbitant. Well, that's my piece. Feel free to flame me now.
 
Well, although this is something I feel strongly about, I'm tired, so this won't be long.

I am completely opposed to services such as Limewire, which allows anyone to download anything for free. Yes, they may prefer not to pay for it but the fact of the matter it, it's stealing. They are taking all this music, and not paying for it. And yet, many of these people profess to be "music lovers." Bollocks. They love music so much they're perfectly willing to take the music of their "favourite" artists for free, thus said artist receives nothing in return. Yeah. Music lovers.

They may say "well, just one more person can't hurt; there are millions of people already doing it." That's exactly the point. Millions are already doing it, and there are more and more people getting involved in this the whole time. The only outcome of this is negative. The artists lose profits, meaning they get paid less for what is essentially their job. Granted, they may be bloody rich already, but if they receive no mopney for their music, they will run out, and they'll stop making music. Now say one person can't fucking hurt.

One such service is "Soulseek." This is used by some of my friends. It claims to be different to the other filesharing software, in that, and I quote "Soulseek is an inventive way for up and coming artists and bands to get themselves known." Now this is all well and good, but the point is that as soon as "Soulseek" take this music, it can then be accessed by anyone with the software. It is exactly the same a any other service based upon fileshare software. The fact is that they take an artist's music, and give it to millions for free.

If a band wants to get themselves noticed, they would undoubtably prefer to offer a sample of their music to potential fans, rather than all of their music to every Tom, Dick and Harry. It's really not hard to create a MySpace with a couple of songs on for people to listen to, or play at a local club for dirt cheap, and make a bit of money from tickets. These kind of bands cannot afford to have people taking their music for free. I have a group of friends who have formed a band, played a few small-scale gigs, and managed to get enough money to record an album. This, along with the equipment they needed, used almost all of the funds they had earned. Emphasis on earned, there.

Now, they started to sell their CDs at their gigs for a fiver, which I think is a very good price for any CD, and this band are really quite good. To support them, I have been to every gig I can, and bought a copy of their album.

Most of the people who have bought their CD will have then copied it onto their computer, so that they can listen to it on their computer, and MP3 players. Nothing wrong there, as I have done exactly that.

But then, a problem arises. Those of these friends who have a program such as "Soulseek" automatically then submit that music to the service, so that anyone can get it for free. No up and coming band or artist can afford for this to happen. Thus, instead of helping new artists, such programs are destroying their chance of success.

Right, I'll stop now, or I'll never get finished. Basically, don't use illegal music downloaders!
 
[!--quoteo(post=133428:date=Mar 30 2006, 05:36 PM:name=Onhell)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Onhell @ Mar 30 2006, 05:36 PM) [snapback]133428[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
I have a lot of them and I don't want to carry them around in my back pack or have them in my car where they can get scratched and/or stolen. [/quote]

I know the feeling.


"Human beings are worthless and stupid" - Varg Vikernes

I felt like quoting that because today I got back my Destroyer 666 and The Chasm CDs after lending them out and they're in rather poor condition. The opening cases are shattered and the CDs themselves are fairly dirty. *sighs* This has certainly put me in a foul mood. Why on earth are people so fucking careless? These bands are actually good and worth listening to and this is how people treat their art? Shame on them, worthless consumerist whores. Of course people will react if they accidentaly break their CD of some disposable pop "artist". I can just imagine it. "Oh no! I broke my Lil' N**** Dawg CD! Wah, wah! Whine, whine!" Ugh, the same goes for when they have a great, expensive Hi-Fi system and they use it to play worthless garbage while I use a generic 50 euro system to play superb music. Well, I know this is slightly off-topic but I have to put it somewhere. Of course, they treat the CDs with care when they're in, but then after a few months they pretend they never existed and move on like a fucking parasite to the next piece of garbage. Okay, sorry for going on like this but I'm just annoyed at how people don't appreciate real quality these days. All they want is their fashionable garbage to keep with the "in" crowd so they won't be exposed for the worthless cowards that they are. It is strange, to say the least, that art has fallen so far.
 
[!--quoteo(post=135027:date=Apr 17 2006, 05:02 PM:name=Black Dragon)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Black Dragon @ Apr 17 2006, 05:02 PM) [snapback]135027[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]It is strange, to say the least, that art has fallen so far.
[/quote]Listen to some classical music then [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\";)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"wink.gif\" /]
As for your rant about damaged CDs and "disposable heroes" that are pop musicians today, I think I need to sit down. How other people treat their secular fancies is not something you should worry about. Why should we care how good or neighbour's stereo system is?

Live and let live [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/cool.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\"B)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"cool.gif\" /]
I know that you don't often let off steam like this ( :: ) but blaming other people for the decline in musical standards is not fair. "If there is any hope, it lies in the proles"... if this is true, we should stop being so elitist in our views of society. We have become so blinded by the walls of capitalism and secularism that we vent our anger at people who like pop music. Let it drop [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/sleep.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\"-_-\" border=\"0\" alt=\"sleep.gif\" /]
 
I agree with Conor, to many what we listen to is considered garbage, but do we care? no not really. As for mishandling of cds I couldn't agree more. I've lent out two cd's and after both were returned with broken cases and scratched I no longer lend out anything. Fortunately I finally have a burner so I just do that, and I don't burn cd's for people unless they are REALLY good friends. To most I just burn "Sample" cd's with 20 tracks from different artists. If they like it they can go and buy it or download it or whatever. There is a limit though, I have a friend who freaks out if you "fold" the cd booklet or leave finger prints on it... ugh. So Neither side of the spectrum is tolerated by... me [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/cool.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\"B)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"cool.gif\" /] oooooh yeeeah
 
About downloading music... Well, I'll star with a brief preamble:

I live in Mexico, a country with almost no metal music culture.  That means, getting some CDs is quite difficult, or if you can get them, they are pretty expensive, so, what I do is downloading the music I want to hear. This does not mean I don't own CDs, I have a lot actually (I have ALL Iron Maiden studio albums, and 4 DVDs), but for some bands (Iced Earth for example), in my contry it's very hard to find some CD's, or like I said before, they are very expensive ($40 USD approx.).
 
Metal_Made... what about trying online shops, or even if the worst comes to the worst, use iTunes to buy your music.  I am in no way an advocate for iTunes but it's better than stealing people's art and livelihood ;)  I don't mean to sound judgemental, as I'm sure it is very hard for some people to buy their music but if you love a band, you have to show commitment :)
 
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