Mosh pits

[Anonymous]

Watch these before reading on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiXuRXKxyQc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCMtT9AU ... ed&search=


Alright, to start with - im 17 - love rock/metal concerts...so its not even like Im just some old guy who doesnt get all this
But what I dont get these days, is all this hardcore mosh shit going on...
I was at dragonforce on monday, supporting them  - Firewind and All that remains...

Firewind come on, cool  - Mini mosh pits (which can be fun) Loads of headbanging...
All that remains come on - half way through first song, Signer screams "lets get a fucking huge circle pit going" ...
Being with a girl I wasnt a huge fan of this idea...we move to the outskirts and it kicks off...
Annoyin at first, But when people are getting thrown at you from behind, punchin and kickin and shit...
I went to the bar in between bands, and saw 2 things - one of the people from the pit with a black eye...ok
But the thing that did it - was seeing a Kid...looked about 13-14 in a dragonforce shirt, unconcious...
It just doesnt sit with me....sure, its freedom of expression or something..but when people come to gigs to enjoy music - and come away injured, because of some fucked up 'dance'...

Im not anti-Mosh pit or anything, God knows I've been in a few myself, but when it gets to the point when people are getting hurt because of going to a gig to see music...yeah maybe that kid was in the pit intentionally...but maybe not - its almost as bad as people starting fights when someone touches them in a gig...or starts a fight when they spill their pint...when the crowd is going mental for a band...and they jump in the middle..
Oh, and worse than both these people, people who punch and kick Inside the pit...as I say, I've been in mosh pits myself and enjoyed them...But getting punched in the face for it - who the hell thought that would be a good idea

Sure this wasnt the best written rant..and I lost steam as I went on - but im sure most of you got the point I was trying to make...
or maybe not , but it makes sense in my head

 

[Anonymous]

A few kids (14 to about 16) started slam-dancing -- or whatever it's called these days -- near me. One of them slammed into me a couple of times. On the third time, I gave him a slap on the head. He turned to me and said, "sorry!" I just looked at him and told him, "you fucking will be if you carry on." Not a single one of them disturbed me for the rest of the show...

Of course, an older character would have had his lights punched out and would have needed extraction from the pit, like it was the case back in 2000.

When I go to a concert, I want to enjoy the show, and not be bothered by arseholes who are out of their heads and pestering everyone with their primitive behaviour. 

 

[SneakySneaky]

And it's exactly this kind of behaviour that drags Metal in the mud.  I am against this mosh/whatever shit.  I'm 17,  call me whatever you want,  but this stuff is as Maverick said primitive.  That's why I prefer not to be in the pit,  or I usually stand at a given distance from the stage,  where people who "want to listen to the music"  are.  I must say though,  I am regretting a little (but only a little),  the fact that I got seating tickets for the Dortmund show  .

 

[Onhell]

I can kind of see what you mean, but, If a Mosh pit is getting formed you have two choices: 1. Join in or 2. move elsewhere. It sucks that the 14-year-old or so was knocked out, but he is 14, old enough to decide either to stay or go, he chose to stay, obviously a bad decision, but now he knows that. Everybody who's been in a mosh pit knows that there is mosh pit etiquette. The videos you showed are extreme examples and to be honest they looked like fun. The first one reminded me of Brave Heart with the opposite clans just charging. I'm not saying war is fun, but there is something primitive in us that is satisfied by getting banged up. Think of it as a real fight club. Most of the people in those concerts are men, men realising agression that for the most part is unacceptable in society.

Thus Mosh Pits are quite fun, but I think it is the individuals responsibility whether he jumps in or not, but also the bands who think (and maybe rightly) the fans want such a circus.

 

[Anonymous]

Bruce has always been against moshers and told those arseholes time and time again to stop it. Many bootlegs attest of that.

As for those who think that mosh pit aggression is fun, they should be ready to face counter-aggression from people like me who don't take any shit from anyone, whatever it is. 

 

[Albie]

Back when I were a lad, stage-diving was the thing. I have to admit, when I first encountered this I hated it - I wanted to be up front by the stage, but I did not want some 13 stone lump landing on my head. Many a time I left a gig with a bruised rib or two or a crocked neck. But after many gigs with this going on, I actually started to join in. I threw myself of the stage many a time to be caught by the welcoming arms of the partaking audience. And with the security firm some of these bands (Slammer, Onslaught, Xentrix, etc) used to employ, they used to help you enjoy it.

However, as one who formed opinions on either side, if you do wish to embark on such "frivolities" - remember others don't. It is rather obvious who'd rather not - and if it's Mav, keep well away.

 

[Hunlord]

Before I begin I just want to say that I mosh, or toxic waltz or whatever you want to call it. I also stage dive and headbang to my hearts content. There is a big difference between what I do and what is shown on those videos. I would never dream of punching someone in the head, kicking them or causing them any kind of serious injury. I'm in there to have some fun when the song is appropriate (A good elbow thrower, The Toxic Waltz by Exodus as as example), and there is no one going to get hit off inadvertently, unless someone goes out of their way to do some damage.

This is at specific gigs however, mostly of the thrash variety. At gigs such as Maiden, I would never dream of moshing or crowd surfing or any of that stuff. With different music, there are different styles of things to do, in my opinion. Maiden isn't music that you mosh to, I can't see how it would work as I generally go with the beats of the song. The same could be said for a Dragonfarce gig that I was at about 7 months ago. I was appalled when the kids around me started to mosh to Dragonforce, not the friendly-ish kind either, they were punching and kicking for all that they were worth.

Maybe I'm being naive, but at gigs such as that Lamb Of God one shown on the video, people seem to want to cause violence and pain. They look fairly vicious in there and don't seem to care if anyone gets trampled over. I think that attitude to have is a disgrace. Go in to have some fun, if anyone falls down, give them a hand back up or if they're injured, get them somewhere that they can sit and try find some help. The other option is don't go in at all, in my eyes. It should all be either good friendly violent fun, or nothing at all.

Though I say this, the gigs that I mosh at are local and you would know most of the people there, I have so far never been in a giant pit such as the one shown in the videos, and have no intention to if people just want to injure others.

 

[Anonymous]

If I went to a lamb of God gig, I would expect to be in a huge 'hardcore' pit..
I only used that video because not many people choose to video pits at concerts where they are not so common...

And in response to Onhells comment :
" can kind of see what you mean, but, If a Mosh pit is getting formed you have two choices: 1. Join in or 2. move elsewhere. It sucks that the 14-year-old or so was knocked out, but he is 14, old enough to decide either to stay or go, he chose to stay, obviously a bad decision"

I dont agree at all...Most pits form near the frount of the stage...this is usually where people will want to stand when they go to gigs, unless they are old enough to spend time at the bar.
Many times people will get pushed into pits, or even just hit against by the people in the pit...
Also, if it is your first metal/rock gig...you may not even be aware what a mosh pit even is...Christ when I first heard of them, I thought of actually pits in the venue that you can jump in...man was I suprised when someone Started one with me...It could always have been a case of this...

 

[Kynisk Sokol]

Maybe I'm being naive, but at gigs such as that Lamb Of God one shown on the video, people seem to want to cause violence and pain. They look fairly vicious in there and don't seem to care if anyone gets trampled over. I think that attitude to have is a disgrace.

Notice the inverse correlation between the quality of the music on display and the tedious amount of moronic "Br00tAL HaRdXCOrE MoiSHNG!".

When I go to a concert, I want to enjoy the show, and not be bothered by arseholes who are out of their heads and pestering everyone with their primitive behaviour. 

It's sad to think that there are people who go to a show for that sole purpose, they're no different from football hooligans. They're also one of the reasons why I continue to distance myself from the metal scene and don't consider myself a "metalhead".

 

[Onhell]

I dont agree at all...Most pits form near the frount of the stage...this is usually where people will want to stand when they go to gigs, unless they are old enough to spend time at the bar.

Most pits don't take up most of the front stage and people can spend time at the bar regardless of age, they just can't purchase the alchohol.

Many times people will get pushed into pits, or even just hit against by the people in the pit...

That's when they can choose to move or not.

Also, if it is your first metal/rock gig...you may not even be aware what a mosh pit even is...Christ when I first heard of them, I thought of actually pits in the venue that you can jump in...man was I suprised when someone Started one with me...It could always have been a case of this...

That is hard to believe, but even if it is a person's first gig they'll recognize a pit when they see one, I know I did. It is a rock concert, not brain surgery. People that go to rock concerts are rock fans and have heard the stories whether from family, friends or the media. So unless the person is an alien or the Wild Child of Averyon, they'll recognize a mosh pit when they see it.

 

[SneakySneaky]

So unless the person is an alien or the Wild Child of Averyon, they'll recognize a mosh pit when they see it.

I'm an alien?  Don't answer that

 

[Albie]

This is at specific gigs however, mostly of the thrash variety.

I have no idea why this would happen outside of these type of gigs. But you're right, there is a difference to showing aggressive behaviour in the name of "fun", to just enjoying yourself without resorting to crass behaviour as shown in the youtube links.

I have to say, as in Hunlords experience also, that most gigs that I went to where stage diving was the norm was always the small local gig were you have the same old crowd doing the same old thing. And as I mentioned, we mostly had the same security firm employed at each gig to control the stage diving etc. Any nonsense, people would be chucked out. But this new so called "slamming" takes it to a different level and makes a bit of a mockery of it all (to say the least).

The worst experience I had at a gig, was when I saw Faith no More at the Astoria (1990ish - Big Jim was still in the band). As soon as it was announced that they where about to take the stage, the whole crowd started to sway back and forward and side to side quite violently. I was trapped in the middle of this and was thrown to the floor (simply by loosing your balance as it was pretty tough to stay upright) on many occasions. Fortuantly, as soon as any one went down - others around you yanked you up straight away. Had it not been for this, many would have been trampled upon. There was absolutely little chance of stopping this as it gained so much momentum it got out of control. It only stopped when FNM left the stage after 10 minutes to calm everyone down - this worked and the rest of the gig was far less manic.

 

[SinisterMinisterX]

I expounded on this subject a couple of years ago (on Aug 20, 2004) and I think that my post deserves a repost here. Keep in mind two things as you read this...
1. It was written in a thread about the question "What is a mosher?"
2. It is based on my experiences with old-school moshing in the late 1980s, and thus describes "moshing ethics" of 20 years ago. Much has sadly changed since then.

===Begin repost===
I used to be good friends with several moshers, back when I lived on the East Coast. I'm talking about "true" moshers, those who mosh as a legitimate dance to express how much they're enjoying the music - not posers who mosh to act out their violent urges or just to simply be an ass. There's a big difference, and I feel I need to stand up for the true moshers before they get ridiculed along with the jerks.

Moshing is typically done to "hardcore" music, a blend of punk and metal that started in New York City and Washington DC. (Those are just US origins; the style may have arisen independently in other countries as well.) The grandddaddy of the genre is Bad Brains; the most famous hardcore band is Suicidal Tendencies.

When a mosher goes to a hardcore show, they want to physically enjoy the music in the same way that a metalhead might band their head at a Maiden show. They are of the opinion that any "stationary" dance doesn't adequately express their love of the music and the energy they get from it. So they throw their entire body around - a whole crowd of moshers doing this at once leads to inevitable collisions, and thus slamdancing was born.

True moshers are a brotherhood. When slamming, they are careful with their hands, feet, elbows and knees and try not to hurt anyone else. They view slamming as an aggressive equivalent of a high five or a friendly slap on the back. This is why they catch the stage-divers (an activity which is encouraged at some club shows, though it's frowned upon more these days than it was in the 80's). This is also why they pick up the fallen right away - they don't want anyone to get hurt, that's not the point of slamming.

True moshers also look out for the "moshing-impaired". People who are trying to mosh safely but aren't good at it are usually kept at the edges of the mosh pit by their more experienced friends, so that they can escape if the going gets rough. Only a self-destructive fool goes into the center of a mosh pit on their first try!

Of course, there are idiots from outside the mosher community who only see the slamming and don't know the etiquette. They think it's all about violence, and so they act that way. I've seen some of these fools actually go into a mosh pit and start throwing punches around. The true moshers will invariably push these idiots out of the pit with well-placed slams, and confront them peacefully when the show is over.

In other words, don't look down on moshers as a group. You still have to judge them as individuals, and most of these individuals that I've known have been intelligent, decent people who just have an unusual way of having some fun at a show.
===End repost===