Metallica Week on Maidenfans (June 29-July 5, 2009)

SinisterMinisterX

SinisterMinisterX

Illuminatus
Staff member
This week, Maidenfans invites all our members to listen to Metallica and discuss the music here.

Next week: Queensryche
After that: Megadeth

I don't have time for a long post, but I will quickly note that "The Call Of Ktulu" is freaking awesome.
 
I am not into current Metallica. This band is succesful but I can’t see the quality on their studio albums, since the nineties. The Black album is good but not really my style. I can’t judge Metallica’s live performances. I never went to a festival where they played and I have never had the motivation to pay for and go to a Metallica concert.

My favourite three albums:

I really enjoy Metallica's second album the most. Ride The Lightning sets itself apart because of some really nice melodies, solos and harmonies (the Maidenish ending harmony in Fade To Black still sends shivers down my spine!). Also I notice that this album contains a lot of variety.

Master of Puppets is the more succesful/popular album but apart from a few tracks I miss the melodic/catchy-aspects from its predecessor. My favourite tracks are the title track and Welcome Home (Sanitarium). Of course there are some amazing riffs but some tracks tend to bore more me sooner. There’s also less variety, especially the mood feels the same most of the time.

I really like the debut album as well, especially the The Four Horsemen with the ultimate Metallica riff!
 
All right. :ok:  Starting with Kill 'Em All, I suppose?

I'll say this: It's vastly underrated as a Metallica album, eclipsed by the later ones, but it's a damn good piece of headbanging thrash metal.  It's got a clear Dave Mustaine influence and some really excellent songs by him, namely Phantom Lord and The Four Horsemen.  Whiplash is just a song to go crazy to, and I don't think I've ever had so much "fun" in a pit than during Seek and Destroy.  The only song I regularly skip is Anesthesia Pulling Teeth, which, while a good show of Cliff's bass, is usually quite boring to listen to in between the other songs.

In other words, it's probably the best debut album ever.
 
I've seen Metallica Live three times. My very first concert at 15 back in '99 in Mexico City and twice Last year at the largest concert ever held in Tucson (50,000+ people) Which was AWESOME, the perfect setlist. And then in Phoenix for the Death Magnetic tour. Metallica is AMAZING live. Even after all these years the energy they have is amazing.

As far as the albums go. I used to hate their 90's stuff, but lately I am not ashamed to admit I like it, quite a lot even. It is as simple as this. I am not the same person I was 10 years ago and in 10 years I certainly hope to have matured and changed some more. Obviously artist grow and change too (unless you're AC/DC). One may not like that change, fair enough, but most people dislike it when bands change using the "sell out" argument and frankly the older I get the older that argument gets. If the music is good who gives a shit as to WHY they are writing it.

The only album I cannot stand is St. Anger. It never happened. But Death Magnetic is a good redeemer.
 
Invader said:
It's got a clear Dave Mustaine influence and some really excellent songs by him, namely Phantom Lord ...
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Really? Mustaine wrote that?

"Phantom Lord" was the name James Hetfield gave to one of his first bands - long before he met Ulrich, let alone Mustaine. (Although Phantom Lord did include Ron McGovney, Metallica's original bassist.) Since Hetfield was using the phrase "Phantom Lord" that far back, I always figured he wrote the song.
 
SinisterMinisterX said:
Really? Mustaine wrote that?
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That's what Wikipedia says, I'm too lazy to dig up my CD.  I didn't know that he wrote Metal Militia, though, and I thought he wrote Whiplash... :S
 
SinisterMinisterX said:
"Phantom Lord" was the name James Hetfield gave to one of his first bands - long before he met Ulrich, let alone Mustaine. (Although Phantom Lord did include Ron McGovney, Metallica's original bassist.) Since Hetfield was using the phrase "Phantom Lord" that far back, I always figured he wrote the song.
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I suppose it's possible that Hetfield named it.
 
Writing credits for Phantom Lord on my CD is Hetfield/Ulrich/Mustaine.

@Invader: Best debut ever? I agree. And I never, ever skip Anesthesia. ;)

So right now I am enjoying that debut album, Kill 'em All ("We wanted to call it Metal Up Your Arse..."#) and I have to say this is without doubt the most consistent album they have done - no duds and a few absolute masterpieces thrown in  for good measure (Seek & Destroy and Whiplash to name two). A few of the lyrics were just a bit too cheesy (No life 'til leather, we are going to kick some ass tonight) - I guess they were pretty young back then, but it has a good raw sound to it that makes up for this.

Brilliant start for any band's career. Gets a 9.8/10 from me. :D

#From Cliff 'em All.
 
I always thought Maiden's debut was one of the strongest and freshest debut albums of all classic (hard)rock/metal groups. Hmm, come to think of it, Queensryche's debut EP and Helloween's debut EP also top my personal ranks. And people should check out the first album by Candlemass. :)
 
Maidens debut is second to this one - in my opinion. But only just.

After Kill 'em All I queued up the Creeping Death/Jump in the Fire EP containing the best cover - Am I Evil? What started out as a very good song had been given a meatier punch by Metallica. Never cared too much for Blitzkrieg, but the two live tracks (Seek & Destroy and Phantom Lord) are worth a listen.
 
Albie said:
Maidens debut is second to this one - in my opinion. But only just.
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I agree.  Maiden's debut has some weak tracks, Kill Em All none.  Anesthesia doesn't count as weak, it's a friggin' bass solo.

And I have to say James Hetfield sounds great on this album, whereas nowadays I find Paul Di'Anno a bit annoying in some songs.
 
Invader said:
I agree.  Maiden's debut has some weak tracks, Kill Em All none.  Anesthesia doesn't count as weak, it's a friggin' bass solo.
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None? That's your opinion (and Albie's and some others ;) ) but I beg to differ. I often skip several tracks when playing this record.

I never do that while playing Iron Maiden which has imo no weak tracks (apart from perhaps Charlotte The Harlot, though that midpart is really cool).

But hey, this isn't my favourite forum for nothing and I stay far away from any website that has to do with Metallica. ;)
 
Kill 'Em All really impressed the hell out of me when I first heard it, but it sounds dated now. Knowing that Metallica went on to much better albums, I don't bother with this one much anymore. Not that it's bad, but it ranks fairly low for me (7th place out of 9 albums).
 
@Foro: I agree that Maiden's debut had no weak tracks, but Kill 'em All just shades it for me.

Ride the Lightning, for me, was let down by just one track - Escape. This track falls short of the quality of the rest, but lyrically I think they upped their game on this album as a whole. Quite possibly two of the greatest tracks by Metallica live on this album - For Whom the Bell Tolls and Creeping Death, absolute classics. When I saw them live around 89/90, they opened with these two - I mean, how good is that? :D

To compare like for like on this and Puppets, Orion is a lot better than The Call of Ktulu (this may have something to do with the way it was used on Cliff 'em All), but Fade to Black knocks the socks of Sanitarium.

Unlikely to play this album tonight, but I will play both this and Puppets tomorrow.
 
I find both Orion and Ktulu quite repetitive tracks. Ktulu has an intruiging intro and Orion a cool riff. The intro is over at some point and the riff gets repeated for aeons.
 
Forostar said:
None? That's your opinion
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Well, that sentence was preceded by "I agree", meaning that it's my opinion. ;)

As for Ride the Lightning, my opinion for it grown over time.  For Whom the Bell Tolls, Creeping Death, Trapped Under Ice, Fight Fire with Fire, Call of Ktulu, and Fade to Black are amazing classics that I never ever skip. 
Trapped Under Ice, For Whom the Bell Tolls, and Fight Fire with Fire are amazing live.

And Albie, continuing your comparison, Fight Fire with Fire beats Battery's socks off, but I think Ride the Lightning loses to Master of Puppets. :)
 
Comparing the two albums (winners in red):

"Fight Fire With Fire" vs. "Battery"
"Battery" wins easily. FFWF sounds like some leftover primitive thrash from the Kill 'Em All sessions. I'm a prog-head, and I like a little more complexity in my music. "Battery" gives me that, plus much better lyrics.

"Ride The Lightning" vs. "Master Of Puppets"
Perhaps unfair, since few Metallica songs can compete with "Master Of Puppets". But I've always loved RTL; given a better matchup, RTL could have beaten several songs from the MOP album.

"For Whom The Bell Tolls" vs. "The Thing That Should Not Be"
I know most people think FWTBT is a classic - and it is very good - but "The Thing That Should Not Be" wins for me. It has atmosphere and Lovecraftian lyrics, which go together like Perun and Asian ladyboys chocolate and peanut butter. FWTBT sounds like an experiment that worked out fantastically well, but TTTSNB sounds more like a real song which took more time and skill to write.

"Fade To Black" vs. "Welcome Home (Sanitarium)"
"Fade To Black" is the easy winner - not because of anything wrong with Sanitarium, but because FTB is just that brilliant. One of James' best lyrics, one of Kirk's best solos.

"Trapped Under Ice" vs. "Disposable Heroes"
Anyone who thinks this is even a contest is sick in the head. "Disposable Heroes" beats up TUI and steals its lunch money. DH was br00tal before anyone knew what br00tal was.

"Escape" vs. "Leper Messiah"
I've got to go with "Escape", probably Metallica's most underrated song. Those dumb lyrics meant something to me when they came out (then again, I was 14). And "Escape" is built on some real melodies, while the endless riffage of LM is too much after the much better riffage of DH.

"The Call Of Ktulu" vs. "Orion"
Yes, these aren't a real match - but it seems natural to pit the instrumentals against each other.
Both are awesome. Ktulu may seem repetitive, but it's the good kind of repetitive - the hypnotic kind of repetitive. But "Orion" is the clear winner - better writing and better playing all around. And a killer bass solo!

"Creeping Death" vs "Damage Inc."
"Creeping Death" is the perfection of pure thrash. Remember how I said few songs could compete with Puppets? This is one that could. Damage is solid, but pales in comparison.
 
SinisterMinisterX said:
which go together like Perun and Asian ladyboys
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Where's that middle-finger smiley when you need it?

Anyway, since I've already posted in here, why not include something productive...

If you want me to pick my winner between Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets, Master wins hands down. I don't think it is the best thrash album ever - that honour is split by Alice in Hell and Reign in Blood - and it is not even Metallica's best album - that would be Kill 'em All. And yet, Master is one juggernaught of a record, perhaps it is the blitzkrieg invasion of Poland of metal albums. Sanitarium, The Thing that should not Be, Orion and the title track are top contenders for the best pieces of mid-eighties metal songwriting, and Battery, Disposable Heroes and Leper Messiah plain kick you arse. It is an energetic and violent album, but at the same time contains an amazing amount of musical expertise.
The only flaw this album has for me, and that is why I don't think it is their best work, is that it is lacking in terms of rawness and hungry aggression. In other words, it is too refined, too polished and too sophisticated for a thrash metal album. Kill 'em All may be a recording of a bunch of drunk teenagers shredding their souls out, but that is what thrash metal is all about, in my opinion. But I am complaining at a high level, and the world would certainly be a lot poorer without this masterpiece.

That is not to say Ride the Lightning is a bad album. It definitely isn't. It's just the poor little record that was shoved inbetween to uber records: Too raw to compare with Master of Puppets and too polished to stand up against Kill 'em All. Unless you know what I mean, you are probably thinking that I'm contradicting myself. I don't think I am, though... it just doesn't hit the bull's eye like the other two.
 
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