Hooligans

Albie

Albie

Keeping an open eye on the Weeping Angels.
There was a report on the news the other day about organised Polish hooligans that are going to Germany this summer for the sole purpose of causing trouble. They have their targets:

• the English
• the Germans
• & the Turks (the Turks have not qualified but apparently there is a large Turkish community where some of the games are to held).

Before I go any further, I will stress that I am fully aware of the problem of hooliganism associated with certain English fans. I'm not blinkered enough to know the potential for English thuggery is great and is more than likely to happen.

It is a sad situation that they (neo-Nazi Poles) have declared their intentions prior to the World Cup and by all accounts the German police are powerless to stop them not only coming to Germany but attending the games as well.

We all know that it is just a minority that start the trouble, but it also takes a few more fellow countrymen, fuelled by a few too many beers, to cause serious problems. Fortunately, as with previous European tournaments, once this lot is weeded out and sent home the real fans can then enjoy the rest of the tournament. For example, contrast the scenes during France '98 involving English fans, first at Marseille and then at any other game. Personally, I just hope that the German police are able to quash any sort of trouble from escalating into a complete riot.

Although we should not be too surprised to learn of potential violence, should we be overly concerned? Is it just over anxiety on the part of the media? Do we think the German police will be ready for any such trouble (I believe they will be)?

If it does happen, it will be the locals that will suffer.
 
Well, I think that so-called 'English hooliganism' is grossly exaggerated. I've been to many England matches and experienced no trouble whatsoever; compared to 20/30 years ago, no trouble at all occurs at English matches. Trust me, as we watch the World Cup this summer, trouble from English fans will be minimal.
 
I'd agree with NA, the 'hooligans' are grossly exaggerated. Watch out for the Polish, it'll make the news I bet
 
The other day I read a journal article written by an Italian journalist. He had been spying German nazi hooligans for weeks and explained they were getting organized together with Italian, French and English hooligans to be able to create as many chaos as they could. I remember the journalist explained they planned to attack (mostly) Turks and they decided to attack as far from the stadiums as possible because the police would be strongly concentrated around stadiums. Pretty intelligent he? [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/sad.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":(\" border=\"0\" alt=\"sad.gif\" /]
 
The last bit of trouble which involved English fans was an incident in Euro 2000 and the Marseille incident in France '98. The incidents at Euro 2004 were not football related and UEFA saw that and there was no trouble in Japan/Korea either. But if the Polish do start, it could be a catalyst for other nations to join in. If they goad the English it could be a problem.

But as I stated at the start of this topic, once the trouble makers are sent home the trouble goes with them. (One thing I did notice during Euro 2000 was the arrests were seemingly all middle-aged men. Its a dying trend).

I have travelled with England before and I have to add that >95% of them are the best fans in the world. They are the most vocal and travel in greater number than anyone else and create a fantastic atmosphere.
 
I read an article this morning in yesterday's Daily Telegraph concerning football chants at the World Cup:

[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]The official England football supporters' club is hoping to discourage Dambusters chants and songs such as Ten German Bombers during the World Cup in Germany. It is scouring league clubs for "witty" and inoffensive replacements.

Fiona McGee, of the Football Supporters' Federation, which is sending volunteers to join the 100,000 England fans expected in Germany during the summer, said: "If you go around the league grounds on a Saturday afternoon, you hear a lot of wit and repartee but that does not translate to the England games.

"England fans have a dearth of good songs. We are trying to get people to send in new and better ones."

The British embassy in Germany is hoping to make a contribution to harmony on the terraces by translating popular English football songs into German. Lord Treisman, a Foreign Office minister, said: "We have a dedicated fans' website with German translations of some songs."

Paul Sizeland, the director of consular services at the Foreign Office, said: "Anything that can promote footballing fraternity is great but I suspect that a lot of people will not get beyond 'ein Bier, bitte' [a beer, please]."

Charles Clarke, the Home Secretary, has already warned fans that they will be arrested and jailed if they perform a Nazi salute, chant Sieg Heil or goosestep in Germany.

He said the German authorities had not decided whether singing songs with war-time links, such as the Dambusters theme and Ten German Bombers, about the RAF shooting down Luftwaffe aircraft, would lead to arrest.

Yesterday the Foreign Office launched a package of support for travelling fans in a campaign called Avoiding Penalties. The service includes mobile phone alerts, a website and a free booklet of advice.

David Platt, the former England player, said good support from fans would help the players. "Hopefully the off-field stuff will help to bring the World Cup home."
[/quote]

So, no need to buy a phrase-book now that I know how to ask for a beer. Thanks! [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":P\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /]

[!--quoteo(post=135334:date=Apr 21 2006, 06:42 AM:name=JackKnife)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(JackKnife @ Apr 21 2006, 06:42 AM) [snapback]135334[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
The other day I read a journal article written by an Italian journalist. He had been spying German nazi hooligans for weeks and explained they were getting organized together with Italian, French and English hooligans to be able to create as many chaos as they could. I remember the journalist explained they planned to attack (mostly) Turks and they decided to attack as far from the stadiums as possible because the police would be strongly concentrated around stadiums. Pretty intelligent he? [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/sad.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":(\" border=\"0\" alt=\"sad.gif\" /]
[/quote]
I seem to remember reading/hearing a similar article about a year ago, in which it was claimed that there was a kind of organized hooligan network across Europe. So, Italian hooligans, or whoever, would come over to England for a particular game, with the expressed intention of causing trouble at a league game outside their own country!

On a side, but faintly related (and mildly interesting) note, I saw a TV programme a while ago about Fascism in football, focusing on Lazio in Italy. Traditionally a very Fascist football club, due to its links with Mussolini, there are some fans who have so much power that they can organize a meeting with the club captain to discuss how the team is performing. They showed how on one occasion, when Lazio had been playing particularly bad, the fans decided to stop cheering the team, and so the next game Lazio won about 4-0 and one guy started cheering, so the thugs around him beat him up with baseball bats. Pretty extreme, huh?
 
[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]He said the German authorities had not decided whether singing songs with war-time links, such as the Dambusters theme and Ten German Bombers, about the RAF shooting down Luftwaffe aircraft, would lead to arrest.[/quote]

Bloody hell! Let them do it! I wouldn't even be here if the RAF hadn't shot down those pesky aeroplanes!
*sigh*
It's not very welcoming if the first thing the Brits get to hear when they want to go to Germany is:
"Oh, by ze veyy, don't sing yoor songs or else yoo vill gett arrestett!!!"
What's next? Forbidding foreign fans to bring their own flags?
Die Welt Zu Gast Bei Freunden? Bloody hypocrites!

[!--quoteo(post=135345:date=Apr 21 2006, 10:10 AM:name=national acrobat)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(national acrobat @ Apr 21 2006, 10:10 AM) [snapback]135345[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
So, no need to buy a phrase-book now that I know how to ask for a beer. Thanks! style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":P\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /]
[/quote]

There's only three phrases you need to know when going to Germany:

"Hallo!"
"Ein Bier, bitte!"
"Wo geht es zum Flughafen?"

[img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\";)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"wink.gif\" /]


Anyway, Germany should keep away from hosting major international sporting events. The record is pretty bad:

1916: Olympic Games in Berlin. Skipped because Germany started a war. Bummer.
1936: Olympic Games in Berlin. nazi propaganda show everybody, including the IOC, would rather forget about.
1940: Olympic Games in Tokyo. Not in Germany, but skipped because Germany started a war. Again.
1972: Olympic Games in Munich. Overshadowed by a huge tragedy, and everybody, including the IOC would rather forget about it. Again.
1974: Football World Cup in (West) Germany. Germany wins a game against highly superior Poland because of unfair weather conditions. Thanks to this, Germany wins the World Cup. The Glory.
2006:
[img src=\"http://www.mgsonline.org.uk/mgsimages/learningimagegerman/fifa2006_logo.jpg

::
 
[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]He said the German authorities had not decided whether singing songs with war-time links, such as the Dambusters theme and Ten German Bombers, about the RAF shooting down Luftwaffe aircraft, would lead to arrest.[/quote]
What is the song "the Dambusters theme"? Is it similar to "The Dambusters March" played by Jethro Tull in their Live album released in 1978???
I love this tune... style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/happy.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\"^_^\" border=\"0\" alt=\"happy.gif\" /]
[img src=\"http://thierryzeppelin.free.fr/liverockannees/1978/tull1.jpg
 
[!--quoteo(post=135346:date=Apr 21 2006, 10:19 AM:name=Perun)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Perun @ Apr 21 2006, 10:19 AM) [snapback]135346[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]There's only three phrases you need to know when going to Germany...[/quote]There is one more important phrase: "Was ist Ihre Meinung über Wittgensteins Sprachspiel Theorie?"
 
[!--quoteo(post=135350:date=Apr 21 2006, 10:20 AM:name=JackKnife)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(JackKnife @ Apr 21 2006, 10:20 AM) [snapback]135350[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
What is the song "the Dambusters theme"? Is it similar to "The Dambusters March" played by Jethro Tull in their Live album released in 1978???
I love this tune... [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/happy.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\"^_^\" border=\"0\" alt=\"happy.gif\" /]
[/quote]
One and the same, I believe.
 
Do you mean Orchestral music?

Classical and Orchestral ain't the same, you know...
 
My father, an experienced world traveller, says you only need to know 3 words in any language: pizza, hotel, beer.

As for singing WW2 songs...that seems like a really, really bad idea. I don't think the English should get arrested for it, but I wouldn't walk into a country and start telling them that they got their arse beat.
 
Better not say what I said. I'm just playing grumpy at the moment [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\";)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"wink.gif\" /]
 
[!--quoteo(post=135346:date=Apr 21 2006, 02:19 AM:name=Perun)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Perun @ Apr 21 2006, 02:19 AM) [snapback]135346[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
Anyway, Germany should keep away from hosting major international sporting events. The record is pretty bad:
...
1936: Olympic Games in Berlin. nazi propaganda show everybody, including the IOC, would rather forget about.
[/quote]
Nay, there is one thing quite good and memorable about those olympics: Jesse Owens.

From Wikipedia:
[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]In 1936 Owens arrived in Berlin to compete for the United States in the 1936 Summer Olympics. Adolf Hitler was using the games to show the world a resurgent Nazi Germany. ... Nazi propaganda promoted concepts of "Aryan" racial superiority and depicted ethnic Africans as inferior or even non-human.

Owens surprised many by winning four gold medals:
On August 3, 1936 the 100 meter dash by defeating Ralph Metcalf
On August 4 the long jump (after some friendly and helpful advice from German competitor Lutz Long)
On August 5 the 200 meter dash
And after he was added to the 4 x 100 m relay team, he won his fourth on August 9

His performance wasn't duplicated until 1984 when Carl Lewis won gold medals in the same events at the 1984 Summer Olympics.[/quote]
 
[!--quoteo(post=135373:date=Apr 21 2006, 03:44 PM:name=SinisterMinisterX)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ Apr 21 2006, 03:44 PM) [snapback]135373[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
Nay, there is one thing quite good and memorable about those olympics: Jesse Owens.
[/quote]
I remember Carl Lewis in '84 and TV made a few comparisons with Jesse Owens (as they obviously would). I seem to remember seeing a clip with Jesse Owens where Hitler hade to, rather reluctantly, present him with a medal.
 
Take that, Nazis! A black man beating out all your pretty caucasians! That's what we call foot-in-mouth.
 
Yeah and, despite all logic, people still watch other people play it. (sometimes I do to, it kills time [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":P\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /])
 
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