A
Anonymous
Guest
[a href=\'http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4176725.stm\' target=\'_blank\'] Atheist loses Bush prayer fight[/a].
dogigniter
Ancient Mariner
Jesus, what is wrong with the world... including the USA. I don't believe in any God but surely in this day and age it is correct to be politically correct and to respect everyones religion, or people who don't have one. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, and by denying them you can no longer have 'freedom of speech' that so many Americans think they have. What a load of bollocks.
gor
Ancient Mariner
I am an atheist because of my reason and only that but I hate religions because of my experiences... the harm they do is matched only by the absurdity of their preachings.
...beware of religion when it gets too near
Disturbing the Priest from Born Again, Black Sabbath
sites with extreme intrest:
[a href=\'http://www.eclipse.co.uk/thoughts/\' target=\'_blank\']http://www.eclipse.co.uk/thoughts/[/a]
[a href=\'http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/\' target=\'_blank\']http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/[/a]
...beware of religion when it gets too near
Disturbing the Priest from Born Again, Black Sabbath
sites with extreme intrest:
[a href=\'http://www.eclipse.co.uk/thoughts/\' target=\'_blank\']http://www.eclipse.co.uk/thoughts/[/a]
[a href=\'http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/\' target=\'_blank\']http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/[/a]
A
Anonymous
Guest
Newdow is full of shit. If he really wants a state that is not run by anything religious at all, why doesn't he start protesting against christmas? I know the 25th of December isn't really the day when Jesus was born and all, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a religious, state-sponsored holiday. As long as Mr Newdow only goes against a state run by the church partially, his points are invalid.
The_7th_Son
Ancient Mariner
I'm Atheist. I dont know what i think here really, i dont have a definate opinion. I think perhaps prayer should be left out of non-religious events, the entire community isnt Christian after all.
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
I'm going to say something and I'm only going to say it once. I am not atheist, I am a devout, practicing Catholic and I am sick and tired of "atheist" who, because a nun hit them in school, because people (of THEIR own free will) kill other people equating that to the impossible fact that there is a good god, or who think they are in control of their own destiny take this crusade against religion and god. If you are an atheist fine, but keep your opinions objective "all the harm religions do"? what about all the good? all the orphanages, schools, charities, social work done and runned by the catholic church? you don't see that in the papers because that doesn't sell as well as Pedophilia. Personally I think this Newdaw or whatever his name is, is a moron. Saying "god" in a public school doesn't violate shit. TEACHING religion in public school does. I think Political correctness is complete and utter crap and if something offends you just suck it up and grow some thicker skin.
But no, now a days we have to be "aware" and "sensitive", and wear a red ribbon for AIDS, a pink one for Breast Cancer, a red, white an blue one for 9/11 and a yellow one to support our troops. Well I have a ribbon too, it's brown and its for "Eat Shit M*F*" He feels a second-class citizen for being atheist? well I'm tired of this air of superiority atheist surround themselves in because they think they got all the answers and look down upon religious people as ignorant, superstitious idiots. The bottom line is BELIEF is personal and you can't prove it wrong, follow any logical arguement try any philosophical arguement but you can't prove belief wrong. If I believe in green gnomes guess what? you can't prove me wrong. If you believe in a god or DON'T... good for you, keep it to yourself.
In the end everything is done by PEOPLE, and people make mistakes, and people are hypocrites and people lie and people get angry. Don't blame religions, philosophies or institutions, don't blame all the good because of a few bad apples (or a lot in some cases). I'm aware of all the abuse, violence and injustice carried out by my church, but it was done by people, not God (since this is an atheist thread.. if there is one).
But no, now a days we have to be "aware" and "sensitive", and wear a red ribbon for AIDS, a pink one for Breast Cancer, a red, white an blue one for 9/11 and a yellow one to support our troops. Well I have a ribbon too, it's brown and its for "Eat Shit M*F*" He feels a second-class citizen for being atheist? well I'm tired of this air of superiority atheist surround themselves in because they think they got all the answers and look down upon religious people as ignorant, superstitious idiots. The bottom line is BELIEF is personal and you can't prove it wrong, follow any logical arguement try any philosophical arguement but you can't prove belief wrong. If I believe in green gnomes guess what? you can't prove me wrong. If you believe in a god or DON'T... good for you, keep it to yourself.
In the end everything is done by PEOPLE, and people make mistakes, and people are hypocrites and people lie and people get angry. Don't blame religions, philosophies or institutions, don't blame all the good because of a few bad apples (or a lot in some cases). I'm aware of all the abuse, violence and injustice carried out by my church, but it was done by people, not God (since this is an atheist thread.. if there is one).
StrangerInAStrangeLand
Ancient Mariner
Onhell, you're reminding me of one of my favorite South Park episodes. It was the one where they tried to make it a non-offensive Christmas so they got rid of everything religion-related. Then the school play had nothing to do with Christmas so the crowd rioted and they all beat the hell out of each other. BTW, it was the first episode with Mr. Hanky.
I'm an atheist. Do I care if "god" is said in the American Pledge of Allegiance? Definitely not. Who cares? Having the word "god" said in schools isn't forcing any beliefs on anyone. Screw political correctness.
But similarily, extremely religious people shouldn't protest evolution being tought in schools either. It is recognized as scientific FACT and should be treated as such. And besides, there's no harm in simply learning about it.
I'm an atheist. Do I care if "god" is said in the American Pledge of Allegiance? Definitely not. Who cares? Having the word "god" said in schools isn't forcing any beliefs on anyone. Screw political correctness.
But similarily, extremely religious people shouldn't protest evolution being tought in schools either. It is recognized as scientific FACT and should be treated as such. And besides, there's no harm in simply learning about it.
My opinion:
Most people (atheists, Catholics, Muslims, anything) who are willing to share their beliefs with you are the same ones who are unwilling to listen to yours.
Right now, it's 'cool' to slam religion, especialyl Christianity. Anyone who admits to believing in God and Jesus is automatically labelled as stupid or naive. Atheiests, Jews, Muslims, and other faiths demand tolerance for their beliefs. That's wonderful. I'm more than willing to tolerate other beliefs. But my tolerance only goes so far. The rights of the majority, Christians, must also be respected.
Some less-tolerant people might quote the First Amendment and the seperation of Church and State. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, They interpret this as "All religion is banned from public life." Nothing could be further from the truth. Notice the comma after the word "religion"? The First Amendment in full reads Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances
President Bush is a Christian, and as an American he has as much right as anyone else to say, believe, and pray where and whenever he wants.
Cheers,
IronDuke
/Not Republican....or even American
//Member of a VERY left wing Liberal-Protestant Canadian Church
Most people (atheists, Catholics, Muslims, anything) who are willing to share their beliefs with you are the same ones who are unwilling to listen to yours.
Right now, it's 'cool' to slam religion, especialyl Christianity. Anyone who admits to believing in God and Jesus is automatically labelled as stupid or naive. Atheiests, Jews, Muslims, and other faiths demand tolerance for their beliefs. That's wonderful. I'm more than willing to tolerate other beliefs. But my tolerance only goes so far. The rights of the majority, Christians, must also be respected.
Some less-tolerant people might quote the First Amendment and the seperation of Church and State. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, They interpret this as "All religion is banned from public life." Nothing could be further from the truth. Notice the comma after the word "religion"? The First Amendment in full reads Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances
President Bush is a Christian, and as an American he has as much right as anyone else to say, believe, and pray where and whenever he wants.
Cheers,
IronDuke
/Not Republican....or even American
//Member of a VERY left wing Liberal-Protestant Canadian Church
Besides, this is Bush's inauguaration. He's a Christian - why not make him swear on the ideals he holds high? If an atheist were to be elected, he or she would be able to affirm or not mention God. It's up to the president-elect.