GATEKEEPERS!!!! ... or: the butthurt modern listeners.

Eddie's Uncle

Eddie's Uncle

Educated Fool
DISCLAIMER:
I start this thread because of the discussion about Ghost in the Maiden tour thread. I chose Ghost here again, because they (or rather parts of their fanbase) are a very good example for what I am trying to say. Of course, most of my points also apply to a whole bunch of other bands too.
So, this is NOT a thread about Ghost specifically, and while reading, you can also fill in Rammstein, Slipknot, Nightwish, Marilyn Manson....

Ok?

I noticed that a significant part (!!!) of Ghost's fanbase (or other bands mentioned above) seem to have a serious problem with their self esteem. How so?
Write anything remotely critical about the band online. Then sit back.

3.... 2.... 1.... Here they come:

GATEKEEPER!!!!
ELITIST!!!!
HATER!!!!!!

How very predictable.

Well, in some cases, yes, you are right. Some people are just that. However, mostly people simply bring up actual facts and add their opinion to it, and nothing else. You immediately starting yelling about it, merely proves that they obviously hit some sore spot right on..

What do "Gatekeepers / Haters / Elitists" usually "criticise" about Ghost (/the other mentioned bands)?
Let's see.

1) "Ghost is commercial". Well, they fill arenas, are in the charts and get played on the radio. This simply does not happen if a band is not commercial. Why are you even debating this?
2) "Ghost are selling out". What does selling out mean? It means that you are deliberately streamlining your art with the goal to sell more. Wether this is alright or a no-no can surely be debated. The fact that Ghost are actually doing exactly this, however, can not.
3) "Ghost are a gimmick band". Again, why do you even dispute this? They have costumes, their own lore, staying in character constantly, use huge props and special imagery constantly without exception. If that's not gimmicky, then what is?
4) "Ghost are not Heavy Metal". Well... they aren't. They are a crossover band with slices of Heavy Metal influences. So what's so problematic about saying they are not a Heavy Metal band? If I say "they ain't funk rock", you would not be enraged. "Not Heavy Metal" is the same thing. Why do you explode about this?

So, what if I bring up any of those 4 points?
Did I say they suck and are fucking faggots? That would make me a hater.
Did I say they HAVE to be Heavy Metal? That would make me a gatekeeper.
Did I say they are terrible musicians because they are gimmicky? Did I say they can't be good if they are selling out? That would make me an elitist.

But I didn't say any of that. I just said I don't like them much (a legit personal opinion) and grounded this opinion on one or several of the above mentioned facts. And you call such a thing "hating" and "elitism"?
That's very worrying, actually. At the very least, it just shows you are butthurt because someone does not appreciate what you like. In that case, not the "gatekeeper" is the crybaby here. You are.

This has become a common trend among current audiences. Someone disapproves what you like? HATER! Someone cares about certain values within the subculture that you don't care about? GATEKEEPER!
Gatekeeper is the most overused accusation of the past 5 years.

Equally funny / sad are the usual responses from such fans after you dared to not agree with their holy heroes. We can play bingo with the predictable "rebuttals"

Oh yeah? How many albums have YOU sold? Much less. So what's your point here? Am I only allowed to dislike something if I can do better? Ok, I remind you of that next time you complain about politicians / your favourite basketball team / your kindergarten teacher.

But they sell millions of records!!! Yeah. They do. Thanks. I know. How is this going to prove me wrong? In fact, it SUPPORTS my claims.

Band XY is doing the same!!! Yeah, maybe so. So what? Do you know the word whataboutism?

You are just too stupid to understand the band!!!! Yeah, I am really dumb. Wait, who is the elitist right now? Hmmm....

A sad development. And no, I am not saying all the fans are like that. Repeat: a significant part of the fanbase!


Thanks for reading. Opinions?
 
Last edited:
Saying Ghost IS a gimmick that play shit music concocted for playlist-idiots full of earworms is elitist and dismissive. Sayin they have gimmicks isn't. Saying they aren't metal isn't elitist either because it's true; they are genre transcending with pop, disco, metal etc influences in a Rock overcoat. Lamenting them for not being Metal (and suggesting they because of that are an inferior shit band, which makes up 99% of their social media criticism), is however elitist and gatekeeping.

And your post is absolutely wild.
 
Last edited:
Yax said:
Saying Ghost IS a gimmick that play shit music concocted for playlist-idiots full of earworms is elitist and dismissive. Sayin they have gimmicks isn't.
Click to expand...
That's pretty much the same thing I said.
Yax said:
Saying they aren't metal isn't elitist either because it's true; they are genre transcending with pop, disco, metal etc influences in a Rock overcoat. Lamenting them for not being Metal (and suggesting they because of that are an inferior shit band, which makes up 99% of their social media criticism), is however elitist and gatekeeping.
Click to expand...
Dito.

That's exactly what I was saying (except for the 99%).


... and you still call my post absolutely wild? Weird.
 
Some people don't like some music.

Other people do like that music.

Some people like to tell other people they are stupid because they do not like, or, because they do like, that music. These people are children or acting like children.
 
Eddie's Uncle said:
That's pretty much the same thing I said.

Dito.

That's exactly what I was saying (except for the 99%).


... and you still call my post absolutely wild? Weird.
Click to expand...
What's wild is the tone of it, not really the core content. I should have made that clear. And I was copying my post from the original thread by the way.
 
Ghost's "gimmicky" image makes them appeal to teenagers. Good marketing.
Their music is commercial but very well done. I prefer Roxette, but they are no more, so...
 
Funny you mention Roxette...they were actually my favourites long before I discovered Hardrock and metal. Joyride is a great album!
(Planning to get the 30 anniversary 3 disc edition with loads of bonus material)
I wouldn´t consider them rock though. They´re pop with some rock influences.
 
Eddie's Uncle said:
DISCLAIMER:
I start this thread because of the discussion about Ghost in the Maiden tour thread. I chose Ghost here again, because they (or rather parts of their fanbase) are a very good example for what I am trying to say. Of course, most of my points also apply to a whole bunch of other bands too.
So, this is NOT a thread about Ghost specifically, and while reading, you can also fill in Rammstein, Slipknot, Nightwish, Marilyn Manson....

Ok?

I noticed that a significant part (!!!) of Ghost's fanbase (or other bands mentioned above) seem to have a serious problem with their self esteem. How so?
Write anything remotely critical about the band online. Then sit back.

3.... 2.... 1.... Here they come:

GATEKEEPER!!!!
ELITIST!!!!
HATER!!!!!!

How very predictable.

Well, in some cases, yes, you are right. Some people are just that. However, mostly people simply bring up actual facts and add their opinion to it, and nothing else. You immediately starting yelling about it, merely proves that they obviously hit some sore spot right on..

What do "Gatekeepers / Haters / Elitists" usually "criticise" about Ghost (/the other mentioned bands)?
Let's see.

1) "Ghost is commercial". Well, they fill arenas, are in the charts and get played on the radio. This simply does not happen if a band is not commercial. Why are you even debating this?
2) "Ghost are selling out". What does selling out mean? It means that you are deliberately streamlining your art with the goal to sell more. Wether this is alright or a no-no can surely be debated. The fact that Ghost are actually doing exactly this, however, can not.
3) "Ghost are a gimmick band". Again, why do you even dispute this? They have costumes, their own lore, staying in character constantly, use huge props and special imagery constantly without exception. If that's not gimmicky, then what is?
4) "Ghost are not Heavy Metal". Well... they aren't. They are a crossover band with slices of Heavy Metal influences. So what's so problematic about saying they are not a Heavy Metal band? If I say "they ain't funk rock", you would not be enraged. "Not Heavy Metal" is the same thing. Why do you explode about this?

So, what if I bring up any of those 4 points?
Did I say they suck and are fucking faggots? That would make me a hater.
Did I say they HAVE to be Heavy Metal? That would make me a gatekeeper.
Did I say they are terrible musicians because they are gimmicky? Did I say they can't be good if they are selling out? That would make me an elitist.

But I didn't say any of that. I just said I don't like them much (a legit personal opinion) and grounded this opinion on one or several of the above mentioned facts. And you call such a thing "hating" and "elitism"?
That's very worrying, actually. At the very least, it just shows you are butthurt because someone does not appreciate what you like. In that case, not the "gatekeeper" is the crybaby here. You are.

This has become a common trend among current audiences. Someone disapproves what you like? HATER! Someone cares about certain values within the subculture that you don't care about? GATEKEEPER!
Gatekeeper is the most overused accusation of the past 5 years.

Equally funny / sad are the usual responses from such fans after you dared to not agree with their holy heroes. We can play bingo with the predictable "rebuttals"

Oh yeah? How many albums have YOU sold? Much less. So what's your point here? Am I only allowed to dislike something if I can do better? Ok, I remind you of that next time you complain about politicians / your favourite basketball team / your kindergarten teacher.

But they sell millions of records!!! Yeah. They do. Thanks. I know. How is this going to prove me wrong? In fact, it SUPPORTS my claims.

Band XY is doing the same!!! Yeah, maybe so. So what? Do you know the word whataboutism?

You are just too stupid to understand the band!!!! Yeah, I am really dumb. Wait, who is the elitist right now? Hmmm....

A sad development. And no, I am not saying all the fans are like that. Repeat: a significant part of the fanbase!


Thanks for reading. Opinions?
Click to expand...

You have described a good number of Maiden fans down to a T.

They are, however, not modern listeners and probably sport bald spots the size of a frying pan.
 
Eddie's Uncle said:
DISCLAIMER:
I start this thread because of the discussion about Ghost in the Maiden tour thread. I chose Ghost here again, because they (or rather parts of their fanbase) are a very good example for what I am trying to say. Of course, most of my points also apply to a whole bunch of other bands too.
So, this is NOT a thread about Ghost specifically, and while reading, you can also fill in Rammstein, Slipknot, Nightwish, Marilyn Manson....

Ok?

I noticed that a significant part (!!!) of Ghost's fanbase (or other bands mentioned above) seem to have a serious problem with their self esteem. How so?
Write anything remotely critical about the band online. Then sit back.

3.... 2.... 1.... Here they come:

GATEKEEPER!!!!
ELITIST!!!!
HATER!!!!!!

How very predictable.

Well, in some cases, yes, you are right. Some people are just that. However, mostly people simply bring up actual facts and add their opinion to it, and nothing else. You immediately starting yelling about it, merely proves that they obviously hit some sore spot right on..

What do "Gatekeepers / Haters / Elitists" usually "criticise" about Ghost (/the other mentioned bands)?
Let's see.

1) "Ghost is commercial". Well, they fill arenas, are in the charts and get played on the radio. This simply does not happen if a band is not commercial. Why are you even debating this?
2) "Ghost are selling out". What does selling out mean? It means that you are deliberately streamlining your art with the goal to sell more. Wether this is alright or a no-no can surely be debated. The fact that Ghost are actually doing exactly this, however, can not.
3) "Ghost are a gimmick band". Again, why do you even dispute this? They have costumes, their own lore, staying in character constantly, use huge props and special imagery constantly without exception. If that's not gimmicky, then what is?
4) "Ghost are not Heavy Metal". Well... they aren't. They are a crossover band with slices of Heavy Metal influences. So what's so problematic about saying they are not a Heavy Metal band? If I say "they ain't funk rock", you would not be enraged. "Not Heavy Metal" is the same thing. Why do you explode about this?

So, what if I bring up any of those 4 points?
Did I say they suck and are fucking faggots? That would make me a hater.
Did I say they HAVE to be Heavy Metal? That would make me a gatekeeper.
Did I say they are terrible musicians because they are gimmicky? Did I say they can't be good if they are selling out? That would make me an elitist.

But I didn't say any of that. I just said I don't like them much (a legit personal opinion) and grounded this opinion on one or several of the above mentioned facts. And you call such a thing "hating" and "elitism"?
That's very worrying, actually. At the very least, it just shows you are butthurt because someone does not appreciate what you like. In that case, not the "gatekeeper" is the crybaby here. You are.

This has become a common trend among current audiences. Someone disapproves what you like? HATER! Someone cares about certain values within the subculture that you don't care about? GATEKEEPER!
Gatekeeper is the most overused accusation of the past 5 years.

Equally funny / sad are the usual responses from such fans after you dared to not agree with their holy heroes. We can play bingo with the predictable "rebuttals"

Oh yeah? How many albums have YOU sold? Much less. So what's your point here? Am I only allowed to dislike something if I can do better? Ok, I remind you of that next time you complain about politicians / your favourite basketball team / your kindergarten teacher.

But they sell millions of records!!! Yeah. They do. Thanks. I know. How is this going to prove me wrong? In fact, it SUPPORTS my claims.

Band XY is doing the same!!! Yeah, maybe so. So what? Do you know the word whataboutism?

You are just too stupid to understand the band!!!! Yeah, I am really dumb. Wait, who is the elitist right now? Hmmm....

A sad development. And no, I am not saying all the fans are like that. Repeat: a significant part of the fanbase!


Thanks for reading. Opinions?
Click to expand...
Eddie's Uncle said:
Why do you explode about this?
Click to expand...
 
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