Funny Wikipedia incident

Genghis Khan

Ancient Mariner
In school today one of my kids had shown us the editing he'd done on Wikipedia.  He had changed the town's history, essentially taking credit for discovering it.  We had a good laugh.  Then we used the situation to show how unreliable Wikipedia can be. 
 
Yes, when looking for something, I usually take the Wikipedia as a first step and then I look for another sources for confirmation, using hints Wiki can give me.
 
I think in order to solve that problem, Wikipedia should ask it's users to use references and bibliography, if they did that, Wikipedia would be the most amazing Encyclopedia ever.
 
Some do cite sources, but scarcesly. Only very important subjects, (not that your town isn't importnat Khan), are locked and well supervised and more reliable.
 
It would be nice though if all submissions would be screened and reviewed before actually changing the page. Since a serious subject will just be as silly as a jacko in a box if edited by wackos. Wow, that rhymes.
 
Mmm...Donuts said:
It would be nice though if all submissions would be screened and reviewed before actually changing the page.
That would be nice, but the amount of changes that occur on a day to day basis makes this an impossible task to do.
 
Good point, but it can be possible in the future that some automated program will match each submission and check if the submission is similar to the past article or way too different. In any case, if this annoys people. you can always googly googly google, since wiki ain't the only source.
 
Ahhh, Wikiality is a grand thing.

When grading student essays, I tell that Wikipedia is NOT a reliable source of information. I do offer a caveat in my tutorial sessions though - (as Onhell said) sometimes they have links to very good (and reputable) references at the bottom.
 
Metal_made said:
I think in order to solve that problem, Wikipedia should ask it's users to use references and bibliography, if they did that, Wikipedia would be the most amazing Encyclopedia ever.
That's exactly the case. It's just that the majority of amateur users don't have a clue how to do this, so a lot of stuff on there is uncited and not necessarily reliable.
 
It has become ridiculous, however. Wikipedia now measures the qualities of its entries by the number of references, which can easily number by hundreds if it is a bit lengthy. The result is: Nobody reads the references (as with any academic work, nobody reads the footnotes), thus you can write any crap and include a phony reference. Or even worse, you can write that, for instance, continental drift is an unproven scientific theory, since there are websites that claim this.

My beef with Wikipedia is that there is a reason why conventional encyclopaedias and reference works are written by scientists and scholars. I agree that these should be free and readily avaliable, if there would be some alternative way of funding and sponsorship- but the way Wikipedia is going isn't really the right one, because idealism and good intentions don't assure quality. Sure, there are some brilliant articles by expert authors in Wikipedia, but quality is usually assured by peer reviews, which means anybody can criticise anything, even if that means leaning up against reasoned and working conventions. Most peer reviews rather criticise the way an entry is written (which, of course, is important as well for a popular reference work), but can't do any proper reviewing on the content. Including references is an attempt at overcoming this limitation, but more often than not, you simply see a tag reading "citation needed" than anything else; and if you include a footnote to a piece of print media, be it books, newspaper articles, magazines, or whatever- nobody will check it anymore. So many people want to see internet references, which is hardly the way to go. If everything that is said in Wikipedia is veryfied by something that is looked up on the internet, then why do we need Wikipedia at all? Moreso, since most Websites are not anonymous, like Wikipedia articles, but written by experts on the subject who stand by it with their name, and usually even offering an overview over their qualifications, as is required by the authors of scientific and academic publications. If I wrote something in Wikipedia s "ThePerun666", nobody knows who it comes from or what my qualifications are, as I can choose not to write about it. However, if I earned myself a reputation with well-worded and seemingly accurate -because referenced- articles and seemingly intelligent participation in discussions, most people will believe anything I write, no matter if it's manure, crap or shit. If you don't believe me, I would be happy to prove it.

A professor of mine wrote in a book on history on the internet that he once published a paper on the Black Plague, which he later put on a website for some of his colleagues to see; using all necessary formalities, like long and accurate footnotes and an extensive bibliography. He later found this paper cited on many other, even academic, websites as one of the best and most reliable available articles on the Black Plague; the only problem was that it was originally a hoax article, and every single word written in it was made up. One of the footnotes even read "J. Lennon, P. McCartney: Nowhere Man. London 1843" (I did something similar in a paper on Canada in WWI, reading "A. Smith, S. Harris: Paschendale. London 2003", trying to test how much my lecturer actually goes in depth checking my literature, and he didn't notice the nature of this 'publication'). But because the article was full of references, footnotes, Latin quotes and whatnot, nobody bothered to check the verity of it all- since the author was a habilitated professor, they just chose to believe it.
 
Though I understand why you and the professor did that, Perun, doesn't it seem the least bit disturbing to know that you've been dishonest in your work? Showing the the problems with the system is one thing, but deliberately misleading people is unbecomming of a scholar. It's not so bad with your paper, but the professor should come clean and retract the paper he wrote, apologize to the academic community, and tell them WHY he did it.
 
IronDuke said:
Though I understand why you and the professor did that, Perun, doesn't it seem the least bit disturbing to know that you've been dishonest in your work? Showing the the problems with the system is one thing, but deliberately misleading people is unbecomming of a scholar. It's not so bad with your paper, but the professor should come clean and retract the paper he wrote, apologize to the academic community, and tell them WHY he did it.

With my paper, it was more or less an act of desparation (of needing to match a number of titles in my bibliography), mixed with an approach of not taking things too seriously. Besides, my reference was correct: I used it to illustrate the cultural impact which the battle of Paschendale had. I just quoted a song like a book, expecting (rightfully) that nobody would care.

As for the professor, I'm afraid I didn't make myself clear. He never intended his paper to be taken seriously. He explained the matter to detail in his book, which, by the way, is very well-known in the academic community of all of Germany: It was a hoax paper for a hoax publication for a joyful celebration in honour of someone who knew this wasn't a serious paper or a serious publication, sometime in the early nineties (when nobody even had a wet dream about an academic internet). It was all fine until somebody found it on the internet by accident, didn't check the sources (if he had at least checked the publication or context which this came from, something that is to be expected, he'd have noticed immediately) and spread the thing. Thus, it was not deliberately misleading people; you might want to call it light naivety, because there was no explicit notice that it was a hoax paper, but many hundreds of implicite ones, and the professor expected any half-decent mind to notice those.
 
Here is a couple of examples of how Wikipedia gets a bad name:

First we have the current article - Monty Panesar's seemingly inability to field. (Monty is an English cricketer, by the way)

Yet, historically, some idiot edited the section on fielding to this. The author could not even be bothered to capitalise his "I" and uses his own point of view:
Idiotic Wiki author said:
He can be considered a disgrace to cricket for his fielding ability and many a time i have cracked up watching him field

Then we had someone alter it to a more "encyclopedic" type entry as such, only for another idiot to scrub all of that and simply edit it to this.

Whilst I applaud the principle behind Wikipedia, these sort of entries do it no favours what so ever.
 
I just heard a news report: Wikipedia is trying to get knowledgeable authors (i.e. professors) for some of their topics.  I missed most of it, but I tought this may be relevant here.  I'll try to find more, if I run into it.

Concerning my original post: the person was tracked down and the Wiki moderators asked for evidence.  Clearly, the kid had none.  Plus, the moderators discovered some private info about his person.  Lesson to be learned is: don't leave your email and full name on a website where people with technical computer knowledge can track you down.  ;)
 
He deserves what he gets for being a vandal and wasting people's time.

Vandalising articles just for showing how Wiki is unreliable is moronic. Because that doesn't show that Wiki is unreliable, everybody knows that anyone can edit it, and write anything he wants. Also, any vandalism is quickly discovered anyway.

If anything Wiki concept is encouraging well behaviour and reasonable debate through discussion pages and such, although I would like to see more moderator activity especially in order to reduce the amount of propaganda there.

It is a (I hope), although somewhat pretensious, ('Wikipedia's goal is to become the most cross-referenced body of knowledge in the world') a noble project because it offers easy accessible knowledge on a wide variety of subjects, and also they have those Wikibooks, Wikiquote is a great thing imo... :ok:

Its flaws are the consequence of its design.

The 'anyone can edit' principle has significant advantages, for example you can find articles in Wikipedia you can't in some other encyclopedias. I think Wiki complements well with other ones like Britannica, Encarta, Stanford encyclopedia of philosophy...
 
Recently, a long-time religion moderator of Wiki was discovered to be a fraud.  The uber-mod said that Wiki is disappointed in his lies, yet remains firmly convinced that Wiki works.  Nothing is expected to change for religious content.  Oh, and Wiki is definitely looking for more smart know-it-alls for their site.  Urizen, you should volunteer.

EDIT:
Re-reading and re-considering this (in my less drunken state) I realize that seems like an insult.  Nah!  All I mean by the above is that if you love Wiki so much (for some strange reason) why don't you try getting a permanent position.  Wiki is over-rated.  Thought they sure get a lot of attention.  I mean type anything and they're in the top five hits, if not number one hit.
 
Genghis Khan said:
EDIT:
    I mean type anything and they're in the top five hits, if not number one hit.

And why is that? Because they have articles on almost anything,  ::). The truth is, Wiki is getting better every day.

1,700,000 articles, that are promptly updated, and growing daily, and Britannica has only 200,000+.
Plus, Wiki is multilingual, and don't charge for knowledge. And unlike Britannica, has a solid article on Iron Maiden.

And you should volunteer when they start asking for someone to bring them down with criticism.

What, like you don't use Wikipedia?

Yes I love Wiki and the reason you will see is not at least 'strange'. I love it because it gives the most instant info with links to sites with further info on the widest variety of subjects in the world. So you see the reason is more pragmatic than 'strange'.

It saves a lot of time, and when I Google something that isn't in Wiki I lost more time in getting to the source of information, than I would if Wiki was among the top ten on the list.
 
The Iron Maiden article on (English) Wikipedia is edited all the time. For instance, eleven edits so far just today. RW may have written portions of it in the past, but it changes constantly. In fact, it had a major overhaul about a year or two ago, just before it became a featured article last year. Unless RW was involved with that, it's likely most of his changes are gone.
 
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