WildRanger
Nomad
These two guitarists are often compared (because they were contemporaries).
Who will get your personal vote and why?
Who will get your personal vote and why?
Eddie Van Halen vs. Randy Rhoads?
- Thread starter WildRanger
- Start date
srfc
Ancient Mariner
Randy as he has more melodically memorable solos. But kudos to Van Halen for pioneering this style, that everyone else has been derivative of since then.
Saying that, I would have liked to have heard the development of guitarists who would have had guys like Uli Roth and Schenker as their influence, that style was completely overshadowed.
Saying that, I would have liked to have heard the development of guitarists who would have had guys like Uli Roth and Schenker as their influence, that style was completely overshadowed.
permanenteddie
Educated Fool
Randy Rhoads without a single doubt. In just two albums with Ozzy, he has achieved way more than EVH ever did. Of course, EVH was way more popular (actually more in the US than in Europe, btw) because Van Halen was clearly more mainstream than Ozzy (playing the Beat It solo helped a lot as well). Not trying to reduce what he brought to the guitar world but just saying that even if everybody knows who EVH is, in terms of guitar, Randy (again with just the two Ozzy albums) brought a lot of different ways to play and was way more melodic and had amazing solos. Eddie made the two hand tapping popular but it really gets on my nerves when some still claims he invented it! He did a lot of great things, inspired a lot of musicians. But just in terms of guitar skills and what was brought by each of them, Randy brought a lot more, it's just that unfortunately he never got the recognition he deserved.
Hmmmh, really not sure about it, once again maybe in the US where Van Halen was extremely popular but surely not in Europe.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
) whereas Rhoads fascinates me more, overall.
Spambot
Meme Lord
Define "achieved way more".
OK, this is two areas now. Are we talking about them as guitarists or as a musicians? Of course Van Halen's music was more mainstream but that doesn't make him better or worse guitarist than Randy. It would be like saying "Well, Randy Rhoads is way more popular than Mick Box who is better, because Randy played for Ozzy who was already well known then." Speaking of "Beat It" - nobody knew he played a solo when it came out. It was Jackson (greatest music star at the time and one of the greatest music stars all time) said - "I want the best guitarist in the world to play a solo there" and Quincy Jones brought Eddie (who was already well known waaaaay before that).
OK then, who did? Steve Hackett? Jimmy Page? I get it, credit where credit's due, but to me - inventing something doesn't mean a lot if you don't know what to do with it. It's like that story about a man inventing a steam machine 200 years before industrial revolution but used it - to spin doner kebab. Hackett and Page maybe did something similar, but Eddie perfected it. And made it popular. And patented it.
What is it that Randy brought?
Now this is a serious question. I only quoted you like this so I don't get lost in trying to present my point. I don't want to you to think I'm trying to prove you wrong, it's just I've never heard something like this. When people speak about top 5, 10 or whatever guitarists, Randy is rarely or never mentioned. I'm no guitar expert, I dabbled in guitar some time ago, I can't really put my finger on about certain or specific style, method and technique so now I don't know if there's a whole area I've missed. Now I hear that one of the greatest guitarist of all time couldn't be compared with Randy Rhoads. What is it that he should get recognition for?
Donnington '84 bootleg surfaced about month ago (after being "in release" for over 28 years!!!!!!) and when I saw that smile - man, I wish I had the chance to see him live. But I did saw Petrucci, so I got that going for me, which is nice.Eddie with the beautiful guitar, Eddie with the iconic rock guitar sound, the ever-smiling Eddie!
srfc
Ancient Mariner
Doner Kebabs are a much more important invention than fucking trains.
permanenteddie
Educated Fool
It means that in just two albums and I'm talking stricktly from a guitar technique point of view (been playing guitar for more than 30 years now...I'm that old!), its difficult to explain it with words rather than showing it but when you take a guitar and try to learn EVH stuff and RR stuff, even if each one has brought a lot to the guitar world, you'll see that Randy has a wider range in terms of technique and music theory knowledge. A simple example: Ritchie Blackmore might be one of the first if not the first rock guitar player that brought classical inspiration into rock but Randy went way beyond that (you can check songs like Goodbye to Romance or specially Diary of a madman).
Popularity helps to get recognition. An example among others, in the early 90's guitarists like Slash (or even Kurt Cobain!!!) was considered to be an amazing guitar player...not that he's bad but if we compare guitar players from the same period of time, a guy like Nuno Bettencourt is 1000 times better. Was he ever mentionned in top 5, 10??? Hardly...why? Simply because Exteme popularity can't be compared to GNR. Same goes for EVH, Van Halen the band became very popular, so it helped him to be mentionned a lot (again, not diminishing his qualities, just saying that it helped him a lot).
For sure Steve Hackett was the first one when it comes to rock music (solo of The Musical Box) and he knew how to use it. The only "difference" was that he was not a flashy player, rarely into the limelight. He was "just" one of the musicians (limelight for Genesis in the early years, it was mainly Peter Gabriel with his stories and costumes). It's just that it was just something he did once because probably he thought it would work great within a song (and it really did) where EVH used it a lot of times so, of course (along with the help of lots of people that thought he was the one that invented it and made all a fuss about it) it was thanks to him that this technique became famous. For that, kudos to him
Again as a conclusion, EVH was a great guitar player and he brought a lot to music, that's a fact. It's just that when some tend to think of him as a God, that he had an influence on 90% of guitar players, it's just plain wrong. There are a lot of guitar players out there that deserve more recognition (and Randy being definitely one of them) but since they are not as well known, people tend to underestimate them.
Spambot
Meme Lord
OK, I see where you're getting that from.
I already admitted that I'm not musically educated, I did play some guitar long time ago and "tried" to learn some riffs and licks from Eddie (haven't even tried to attempt to learn a solo) and I remember how finger-braking it was. Some other guitarist, that were also praised for their skills, weren't as hard to recreate as Eddie was. Considering Randy, I must admit that I didn't listen to those two albums, I probably know only the singles/hits simply because I can't stand Ozzy's voice. So I guess popularity goes both ways. I do remember classical elements of Mr. Crowley but I assigned those to Don Airey (speaking of underrated). I guess I'll have to revisit those two albums and try to ignore Ozzy.
As per popularity goes, that's a slippery slope. I agree it's annoying when you see these lists and you see people there on top who should've been much lower on the list (Kurt Cobain as perfect example, can't really stand Nirvana). But, for example Nuno and Slash, Nuno may be better guitarist technically, but Slash has his distinctive style. I agree he would be much lower if he wasn't in Guns n' Roses, but then again, maybe Guns n' Roses wouldn't be that big if they had somebody else in their band. For example, couple weeks ago my friend was describing a song (power-metal) and the term he used was "Slash solo" and I immediately knew what he though about. So maybe Slash isn't technically proficient or maybe he didn't brought anything new, but if people use your name to describe certain style, I guess you had to do something right. Let me be honest - solos in Sweet Child o' Mine and November Rain are not anything new, complex or innovative but I bet they gave those songs an extra push to be where they are now.
And this is where I always put Eddie one spot above all others. There were (and still are) better guitarists than EVH, but they couldn't wrote a tune if it saved their life. Yes, Eddie was flashy, but so were a lot of others and it just didn't work. For example, Yngwie can finger tap the shit out of guitar, but I guess it just didn't appeal to the masses. Eddie puts 14 tabs of finger-tap right in the beginning of the song and makes a radio hit. The guy just had an ear how to make a catchy song (not only "Jump" which I actually dislike) and however good guitarist he was he never let his guitar playing overshadow the rest of the song (live gigs were something different).
I already admitted that I'm not musically educated, I did play some guitar long time ago and "tried" to learn some riffs and licks from Eddie (haven't even tried to attempt to learn a solo) and I remember how finger-braking it was. Some other guitarist, that were also praised for their skills, weren't as hard to recreate as Eddie was. Considering Randy, I must admit that I didn't listen to those two albums, I probably know only the singles/hits simply because I can't stand Ozzy's voice. So I guess popularity goes both ways. I do remember classical elements of Mr. Crowley but I assigned those to Don Airey (speaking of underrated). I guess I'll have to revisit those two albums and try to ignore Ozzy.
As per popularity goes, that's a slippery slope. I agree it's annoying when you see these lists and you see people there on top who should've been much lower on the list (Kurt Cobain as perfect example, can't really stand Nirvana). But, for example Nuno and Slash, Nuno may be better guitarist technically, but Slash has his distinctive style. I agree he would be much lower if he wasn't in Guns n' Roses, but then again, maybe Guns n' Roses wouldn't be that big if they had somebody else in their band. For example, couple weeks ago my friend was describing a song (power-metal) and the term he used was "Slash solo" and I immediately knew what he though about. So maybe Slash isn't technically proficient or maybe he didn't brought anything new, but if people use your name to describe certain style, I guess you had to do something right. Let me be honest - solos in Sweet Child o' Mine and November Rain are not anything new, complex or innovative but I bet they gave those songs an extra push to be where they are now.
And this is where I always put Eddie one spot above all others. There were (and still are) better guitarists than EVH, but they couldn't wrote a tune if it saved their life. Yes, Eddie was flashy, but so were a lot of others and it just didn't work. For example, Yngwie can finger tap the shit out of guitar, but I guess it just didn't appeal to the masses. Eddie puts 14 tabs of finger-tap right in the beginning of the song and makes a radio hit. The guy just had an ear how to make a catchy song (not only "Jump" which I actually dislike) and however good guitarist he was he never let his guitar playing overshadow the rest of the song (live gigs were something different).
permanenteddie
Educated Fool
Same feeling about Ozzy here btw...Randy is one of very favorite guitar players but I can't stand Ozzy in general (so I mainly focus just on the music itself while listening to these two albums!)...always thought he was one the luckiest guys on earth, that was just there at the right place at the right time (for Black Sabbath) and then he had the chance that Randy was there to launch his solo career...sad Randy didn't enjoy all the work he's done...only the good die young, so they say
Maturin
Sköldpadda
Early on when I first got into music in the 2000's I was a massive Randy Rhoads fan, and it would have been an easy choice - but today I don't know. Neither is among my top players anymore, though their influence is substantial on everything guitar.
Eddie developed a great tone and style easily adopted into other stuff. Feels less unique today because everyone copied him and that style and tone fits perfectly into that kind of music and is just a generally good tone for lots of applications. On the opposite side, playing anything else with Rhoads' very distinct tone... It just doesn't work, for me. And there aren't many copycats. It's all amazing when you hear his work for Ozzy, but the tone is just awful outside of that context.
Eddie developed a great tone and style easily adopted into other stuff. Feels less unique today because everyone copied him and that style and tone fits perfectly into that kind of music and is just a generally good tone for lots of applications. On the opposite side, playing anything else with Rhoads' very distinct tone... It just doesn't work, for me. And there aren't many copycats. It's all amazing when you hear his work for Ozzy, but the tone is just awful outside of that context.