Death to False Maiden Fans

A

Anonymous

Guest
Why is it that whenever a sentence starts with, "If you don't like <name of the Iron Maiden album or song>", it invariably ends with "you're not a real Iron Maiden fan"?

Are the so-called "real" Maiden fans supposed to take everything Maiden do for gospel and put any critical sense they may have aside? Maiden are right. Maiden rule. That's final and if you don't agree, go f*ck yourself! -- Charming attitude to say the least...

I am getting increasingly cheesed off with this kind of fanatism that tries to eradicate any critical thought we may have. Whatever Maiden put out, let's remember that we all have various tastes and opinions. It seems to me quite close-minded to scream at someone who doesn't like/dislike the same songs as you, and this kind of attitude is quite surprising for fans of a band that has released so many songs encourageing people to think for themselves.

I don't want to make this post LooseCannon-long, but I'd like you to reflect on this. Is it that the "fans" simply don't listen to the songs? Is it that Maiden has become a cult and that every kid into this music has virtually become a self-appointed inquisitor, ready to burn heretics who think that Fear of the Dark is a lesser album than, say, Powerslave?

I sometimes wonder, when I see some posts on the official BB, if all this hasn't got out of hand and that the band members themselves must be appalled at the amount of stupidity they have awakened in some of their followers. This situation is much more contained on the maidenfans.com board, as the number of visitors is much lower as compared to the IMBB, but some occurrences of such idiocy can be noticed here too.

When you like Maiden, do you have to like EVERYTHING Maiden releases?

Think about it...
 
Ok, this is a very interesting discussion.

First of all, I think we all agree that, the human being is by nature “aggressive” with the ones who doesn´t share his/her opinion. It happens with music, food, colours, tastes, religion…

Mostly of Maiden fans are a bit too fanatic, mostly the new ones. They tend to think that Maiden is the best band ever and that´s the most true fact of the Universe !
With time, they realize that yes, Maiden is very fuc*ing good, but theay are no the only ones. Is not that they don´t like the band anymore, but they exchange they inconditional love by a racional, and more enjoyable and healthier, love. I´m preety sure that all of you had passed from this. I did, Maverick did, LooseCannon and all of you did. I can bet my head for it ! (God, please make me be right ! [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--])

However, some of the maiden fans, doesn´t “grow” this way. And tend to keep on thinking that Maiden is the only thing that matter in this Universe. And then we get to such things like “If you don´t like THE TROOPER then you are not a real maiden fan”

Well, I must admit, that I had such thoughts too. I guess everybody does. The most we listen to Maiden the most we realize that maiden is unique and the most we realize that despite the fact of this “perfection” Maiden had, and yet has, some bad moments.

I think that the real maiden fans, if such a kind of person really exists, is someone who knows every song from the band, every album, every formation, every historycal context. Wether he/she likes it or not, he knows the importance that Blaze had for the band, same think as Janick, Bruce, Paul, Adrian….

But we cannot say that someone is not a real maidenfan just because he dislike the trooper. I would say this guy/girl is a lunatic, but if he/she says “I don´t like Trooper, because the vocals are too sharp, the bass lines are poor and the drumming is fairly heavy” I will have to swallow my words of hate and just accept it.

In my country we have a phrase the defines exactly what I´m trying to explain. We say that “gosto é que nem cu, cada um tem o seu”. This is a very rude phrase though, the translation is something like “taste is like ass, everyone has its own”. But, come on, isn´t that true !

I believe that you have the right to dislike The Trooper, and I have the right to disagree with you. However, I really cannot measure your “fan level” and you can measure mine. Before fight, lets discuss The Trooper and see why you don´t like it and why I do.

Yes I know, its hard to think this way, but we must try ! [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
[!--QuoteBegin-MigDaimon+Apr 12 2004, 09:03 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(MigDaimon @ Apr 12 2004, 09:03 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] I think that the real maiden fans, if such a kind of person really exists, is someone who knows every song from the band, every album, every formation, every historycal context. Wether he/she likes it or not, he knows the importance that Blaze had for the band, same think as Janick, Bruce, Paul, Adrian…. [/quote]
I couldn't agree more! [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

Being a Maiden fan is NOT about accepting every single thing they do as a jewel, but to have our eyes open.


And the English expression that corresponds to your Portuguese sentence is "opinions are like arseholes -- everybody's got one and most of them stink"! [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Maverick+Apr 12 2004, 08:15 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Maverick @ Apr 12 2004, 08:15 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] And the English expression that corresponds to your Portuguese sentence is "opinions are like arseholes -- everybody's got one and most of them stink"!  [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--] [/quote]
Thanks a lot Mav ! (Am I allowed to call you that way ?)

Actually I found that the english sentence is more dirty than the portuguese one. There´s nothing refering to smells, but I agree, most of them stink ! [!--emo&:lol:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/lol[1].gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'lol[1].gif\' /][!--endemo--] [!--emo&:lmao:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/lol.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'lol.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
First of all, gold star to MigDaimon, for a nice long post.

Secondly, I totally agree with you all. Whenever someone comes on saying "I hate this" or "This is better because"...all I ever ask is "Back it up." Everyone's welcome to opinions. But please, don't have STUPID opinions.
 
I often get told that I'm not a true Maiden fan. Not so much because there's songs I don't like, but because I have said on the Maiden BB that I listen to music other than 1980s metal/rock.

I have CDs by Aphex Twin, DJ Shadow, Coldcut, Kid Koala, Carcass, Johnny Truant, Sack Trick, Nirvana, Raging Speedhorn, The Beatles, The Bonzo Dog Band, Squarepusher, NWA, The Prodigy, Cradle Of Filth, Stockhausen, Merzbow and Segovia which I enjoy and listen to quite a lot. However, because I listen to these I'm not allowed to listen to Maiden. That annoys me just as much, if not more, than the theory that all Maiden fans must like every Maiden song.

Also, I don't like some of the more popular songs. I'm afraid to say that I think the Trooper is one of their most over-rated songs. I've lost count of the number of times I have been insulted and flamed for saying this, whereas I could happily bash any Blaze-era song and get flamed for supporting him.

At the end of the day it's all opinions and you can't really say someone's opinion is wrong. Only your opinion is right for you and no-one should change it.

Maiden BB members are a weird bunch, but before General Chat was deleted there was a name for these idiots. That name was n00bs, and unfortunately the place is now overrun by them.
 
there's one question I like to ask....

What is a true Maiden fan or metal fan or anything like that ....

Ive been listening to maiden since 84 i dont listen to them everyday or second day (life would be boring if i did) hey i like Blaze, i may not like Janick's playing but hey its something that we (I) have to deal with...

So what makes a true fan in the eyes of others ??
 
[!--QuoteBegin-tabor+Apr 13 2004, 01:52 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(tabor @ Apr 13 2004, 01:52 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] there's one question I like to ask....

What is a true Maiden fan or metal fan or anything like that ....

[/quote]
Mig gave a great defination of a maiden fan and this definition can be applied to other types of fans or what a fan (of anything) should be. Remember that "fan" comes from "fanatic" yet fanatic has come to have a negative connotation meaning narrow minded, fundamentalist nut. lol And those are the ones who say "don't like the trooper? *ck you!" Like AM I too have plenty of music outside of the metal genre and in fact all this diversity is what helps me enjoy and appreciate music as a whole. Metal will always be my number 1 but playing a little Mozart or CCR (Creedance Clearwater Revival) now and then is good too.
 
As far as I'm concerned, a Maiden fan is someone who:
a. Enjoys Maiden's music.
b. Thinks that Maiden makes more good music than bad music, although a fan is certainly welcome to have negative opinions of some albums or songs.
It's that simple.

There's no litmus test for being a Maiden fan. You don't have to know every song or band lineup, you don't have to own every album, you aren't required to have seen them live etc. If you like the music and think they're a good band, that's it.

I have a friend who's only ever heard 2 Maiden songs: Wrathchild and Genghis Khan, which I played for him one day when I had my Killers CD in hand. He liked them both, and said "That sounds like a rockin' band." As far as I'm concerned, he's a Maiden fan. I'll grant that he's a less-informed and less-involved fan than those of us on this BB, but he's a fan all the same.
 
and guys you have just proved my point...

a fan is someone that digs something regardless not a nut fanatical is more obsession...

A fan is someone that can give constructive criticism either good or bad...

Im also a big fan of classical and jazz apart from metal/thrash
 
Huge debate. Great words, they have a meaning, so I dived into my dictionaries and here is what they say :
“Fanaticism : wildly excessive or irrational devotion, dedication, or enthusiasm.”
“Fanatic : a person whose enthusiasm or zeal for something is extreme or beyond normal limits.”
“Fan : an ardent admirer of a pop star, football team, etc.”
Collins, Concise Dictionary
In my French dictionary, the meaning seems a little bit stronger, I will try to translate it in the best way :
“Fanaticism : from Fanatic. 1. Exclusive faith on a doctrine, a religion, a cause, going with an absolute zeal to defend it, often leading to intolerance and violence. 2. Excessive enthusiasm.”
“Fanatic : from latin fanaticus : inspired, on delirium, from fanum : temple. 1. a person who believes himself to be inspired by the divinity, by the divine spirit. 2. a person sustained towards a religion, a doctrine, a person by an uncompromising faith or a blind zeal. 3. a person who has an excessive passion, admiration for someone or something.”
“Fan : young and enthusiast admirer.”
Le Petit Robert

To sum that into stereotypes, it would seem that the members of the official BB would be fanatics [!--emo&:blink:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/blink.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'blink.gif\' /][!--endemo--] , and here at Maidenfans we would be fans, well let’s hope… [!--emo&;)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'wink.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

I don’t think a fan should be unquestioning and accept everything from the person/band he/she admires. To me, being a fan means to have a positive “a priori” towards a band and their music. This also means that if there is disappointment, it will be stronger. But, you can’t totally and blindly agree with all what is sung or played by the band.
Concerning the music, it is a matter of taste and everyone has a different one. It also can be a matter of mood.
Concerning the lyrics, well, first you have to understand them, and then not forget this is a story written to entertain. When the lyrics are giving a point of view, they have to be considered as an opinion amongst others, keeping in mind that there are so many cultural differences in the world, that we don’t see everything under the same light.

Another interesting point is about the definitions given by an English and a French dictionary : they are not the same. It happens to be “zeal” in the English one, but “blind zeal” in the French one. That could also be that I have a concise one in English and a “normal” one in French, but if anyone could check in its own English dictionary, I would be interested…
In English, the fan is an “ardent admirer”, in French a “young admirer”. What do you think of that the older than forty years old ? [!--emo&:p--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
At the request of Owl,

Fan: A keen follower of a specified hobby or amusement, and gen. an enthusiast for a particular person or thing.

Fanatic: 1. Of persons, their actions, attributes, etc.: Characterized, influenced, or prompted by excessive and mistaken enthusiasm, esp. in religious matters.
2. A fanatic person; a visionary; an unreasoning enthusiast. Applied in the latter half of the 17th c. to Nonconformists as a hostile epithet.

Fanaticism: 1. The tendency to indulge in wild and extravagant notions, esp. in religious matters; excessive enthusiasm, frenzy; an instance, a particular form, of this.
2. In a weaker sense: Eagerness or enthusiasm in any pursuit.


From the Oxford English Dictionary, New Edition
 
Fun part of it all though is that many people on the Maiden BB says that they are true metallers who can stand up for their own opinion and won't change it for the popular likes of pop and rap music, but then says that I should change my opinion about The Trooper being the weakest song of Piece of Mind just because of Maiden fans' popular likes. Quite contradictory if you ask me.

However, the weirdest part of the belief that a true Maiden fan must love all their songs is that not even the band themselves do, they've said so in several interviews, so why should their fans do really?

The Ancient Mariner made a few excellent points in his post too.
 
It's the same phenomenon you see with patriotism. You criticize one decision your government has made and a vocal minority is ready to deport you for treason. When really, the people who speak up to denounce their leaders' mistakes are often the ones who care most passionately about the country and its people.

So with Iron Maiden you find that many lifelong lovers of the band have some very pointed criticisms of certain elements of the band's history. And there's a dogmatic, vocal minority that considers it sacrilege.

Personally, I wish we could just avoid the words "true fan," "real fan," or even "fan" in our discussions of Iron Maiden and their music. So often these words just turn into a surrogate penis measuring contest anyway: "my fandom is bigger than your fandom." The hell with it. Let's just all be people who love Iron Maiden's music and leave it at that.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-zgodt+Apr 19 2004, 01:38 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(zgodt @ Apr 19 2004, 01:38 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] Personally, I wish we could just avoid the words "true fan," "real fan," or even "fan" in our discussions of Iron Maiden and their music.  So often these words just turn into a surrogate penis measuring contest anyway:  "my fandom is bigger than your fandom."  The hell with it.  Let's just all be people who love Iron Maiden's music and leave it at that. [/quote]
No way. I'm not abandoning "fan" in favor of "people who love Iron Maiden's music". It's the difference between typing 3 character vs. 36 characters, and I'll cop to being lazy. [!--emo&:p--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

Seriously, a vocabulary change isn't the answer. Misguided folks with a competitve spirit who might engage in a "penis measuring contest" won't be dissuaded by language barriers. A change in attitude is required. To be frank, such people have a lot of growing up to do.

What I've found is that you can almost never force someone to change their attitude if they're not ready and willing to make the change anyway. On those rare occasions where you can force them to go where they don't want to go, they won't stay. The only effective method of changing people's attitudes is to lead by example and hope that other people will see, on their own, the merits of taking another approach to life.

What this means for the way I treat fanatics is that I try to acknowledge that they are entitled to their opinion, while gently* explaining that if they're entitled to their opinion then I'm also entitled to mine. Being a fan is something that you can only declare yourself; once I've said I'm a Maiden fan, no one can take it away from me.

I also note that I have yet to see a dissenting opinion in this thread. We're all preaching to the choir. This thread was inspired by [a href=\'http://forum.maidenfans.com/index.php?showtopic=4288\' target=\'_blank\']this post[/a] by Weekend Warrior. WW, I hope you've been reading this thread and are getting some sort of message here! The same goes for any other overly dogmatic persons on the board.

[span style=\'font-size:8pt;line-height:100%\']*Well, "gently" is an ideal. I'm not ideal, I'm just human, so I'll admit I can be a bastard too. But I honestly try not to be, at least most of the time.[/span]
 
[!--QuoteBegin-SinisterMinisterX+Apr 19 2004, 10:59 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ Apr 19 2004, 10:59 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]No way. I'm not abandoning "fan" in favor of "people who love Iron Maiden's music". It's the difference between typing 3 character vs. 36 characters, and I'll cop to being lazy. [!--emo&:p--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

Seriously, a vocabulary change isn't the answer. Misguided folks with a competitve spirit who might engage in a "penis measuring contest" won't be dissuaded by language barriers. A change in attitude is required. To be frank, such people have a lot of growing up to do.

What I've found is that you can almost never force someone to change their attitude if they're not ready and willing to make the change anyway. On those rare occasions where you can force them to go where they don't want to go, they won't stay. The only effective method of changing people's attitudes is to lead by example and hope that other people will see, on their own, the merits of taking another approach to life.

What this means for the way I treat fanatics is that I try to acknowledge that they are entitled to their opinion, while gently* explaining that if they're entitled to their opinion then I'm also entitled to mine. Being a fan is something that you can only declare yourself; once I've said I'm a Maiden fan, no one can take it away from me.

I also note that I have yet to see a dissenting opinion in this thread. We're all preaching to the choir. This thread was inspired by [a href=\'http://forum.maidenfans.com/index.php?showtopic=4288\' target=\'_blank\']this post[/a] by Weekend Warrior.  WW, I hope you've been reading this thread and are getting some sort of message here! The same goes for any other overly dogmatic persons on the board.

[span style=\'font-size:8pt;line-height:100%\']*Well, "gently" is an ideal. I'm not ideal, I'm just human, so I'll admit I can be a bastard too. But I honestly try not to be, at least most of the time.[/span][/quote]
I think what I am advocating is a change in attitude, rather than a mere change in vocabulary. I think "fan" is a label and we need to get away from labels. It's a noun, it's something you call someone, but it doesn't seem to have any useful meaning other than to separate some people from other people: i.e., I call myself a fan and therefore I separate myself from all the people who are not fans. And then, this gets layered with various stupid value judgments... fans > non-fans, "casual" fans vs. "true" fans, etc. When I say I want people to stop using the word fan, what I really mean is that I want people to get out of the habit of labeling themselves or others with these petty categories, and just starting talking about the art. Yeah, I know you can't force people to change their attitudes... but you can make enlightened suggestions and hope that a handful catch on. [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

Meanwhile, if you're concerned about avoiding extra typing, I think you'll find it quicker and easier to type "I love Iron Maiden" than "I am a fan of Iron Maiden." [!--emo&:p--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top