UK Politics

A boarder poll in NI is unlikely really. It would have to get the OK from UK secretary of state and yesterday she saw "naw." The peace agreement states that there must be evidence that a clear majority are in favour of a united Ireland and opinion polls show that this is not the case. Many people here who, while not fans of British occupation in Ireland, do not have the stomach for the potential mayhem that could ensue if we voted for unification. The call for a vote by some republican politicians is just a bit of dickin about.

RE increased violence, some commentators think it possible, especially if British military boarder checkpoints are reinstated. I think if everything is handled well then it should be ok. Keep the boarders open and stop talking about a united Ireland. Simple.....

Also, any thoughts on the 2nd ref petition? Its got 500,000 signatures (based on a law concerning majority and turnout) but i read in the Independent that it wouldnt mean they would have to call another vote but didnt explain why.
 
Any of those petitions that acquires over 100,000 signatures must be brought up in Parliament, but there is literally zero chance of a second referendum occuring.

It has been made abundantly clear since the start of the campaign that there would be only one vote, and that the majority would win no matter how slim the margin was.

Cameron has resigned, Juncker has told us to get out and get on with it and the markets have begun to respond, there is not going to be another vote.

Furthermore these online petitions are very open to exploitation: You do not have to be a UK citizen to sign and people can sign multiple times using multiple e-mail addresses.
 
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Yeah, most things I've read say there is little chance but the petition says "implement a rule..." but I cant find any rule anywhere. I'm wondering if there is such a rule in existence or if the petition is calling for such a rule.

Anyway, a committee decides if a petition with over 100k sigs needs to be discussed in the commons. If it is discussed then who knows as the house has a clear Remain majority (according to some stat filled article I read somewhere). Unlikely, yes, but as an Ireland fan I always like to hope against hope and hold out for a last minute reprieve!

* Hope is the rope that keeps us tied in knots*
Blackie Lawless, The Torture Never Stops

 
Nah, it's a bad idea. It would just cause unrest and instability. A petition for an election might be a fair call, though. We don't know what political direction the non-Cameron led Conservatives will follow, and will have no say over who becomes PM otherwise.
 
Having a vote over something that was just voted on seems a bit odd. Maybe they should just do best 2 out of 3 (stole that from Hugh Laurie).. then 4 of 7 if the results of 2 out of 3 do not meet the desired results.
 
Not for a generation, anyway. I can see the UK wanting to come back in 25 years, when the Euroskeptics that voted Leave today have mostly died off and the class of Britons between the age of 15-25 are at their political primacy.
 
I'll post on this in more detail at some point but I will say this - the EU will probably cease to exist within the next ten years and I for one will not mourn its loss. Sorry.
 
Check this out: Welcome to the divided, angry Kingdom

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154278200626323



- - -

The UK (in its current form) will probably cease to exist within the next ten years and I for one will not mourn its loss. Sorry.

I welcome Scotland to the EU, even if that needs breaking away from England, England's eternal "friend" Wales (full of Englishmen anyway) and Northern Ireland which should start scratching its head as well.

The EU might be changing soon as well. Even if it goes back to the earliest 6 members (which won't happen anytime soon), there'll always be some common sense left to address international issues. So, I am not sure how many more fables were told (or still being told by populists like Farage) but you can bet that the EU will continue to exist longer than 10 years.
 
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Let me start by saying that I am not in anyway a Farage fan, in fact I have no respect for him or his party and as the UK has voted leave this may well start the end of the road for UKIP. Another loss I will not mourn. To be honest, I don't really have much time for any of them.

Yes, the country is divided and this was not because of the referendum - it's been like that for as long as I can remember. All the referendum has done is highlighted it. Yes, the union may well break up and become separate countries but I don't think Sturgeon can sell the "independence" to Scotland in another referendum because a) there is no guarantee the EU will accept Scotland (it's been reported that Spain & Belgium will block any move) and b) they will almost definitely lose the pound.

About the youth, well the only way that we can gauge how they voted is by polling them as the vote is a secret ballot - but if we go with that (and polls are not reliable, as we know) 78% of 18-24 age group wanted in. However, the turnout of that age group (again using a poll) was only 38%. Does it really mean 78% of all 18-24 yrs wanted IN? Perhaps most of them (62%) are just not interested and I don't blame them.

About the IN campaign; smug, self-centred, condescending are just some words I can use to describe them. To tell over 50% of folk that voted out they are, because of their lack of formal education, a bunch of thick bigoted racists who can't be trusted to vote is frankly insulting. Labour, for example, has a real problem with what is known as the "North London elite" where, thanks to Blair, we have a lot of university educated hi-brows how really have little or no time for the working class (example: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...s-drippingly-patronising-Nick-Clegg-says.html) DESPITE what they claim to say. According to a poll (see earlier for treating this with scepticism) the driving force behind people wanting to leave was democracy (see image) no immigration. And now we have "remainers" tearing into "leavers" with such vitriol, it is frankly pathetic. A second referendum? Why? Shall we keep having referendums until we get the result we want? (Note: Take a look at the raw data of this poll and where people are signing it: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215.json not only do we have people giving out post codes to get more people to sign it, there is some people running scripts to keep signing it https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl3CeJDWgAANXjW.jpg).

About the leave: Far too much Farage.

And if want an example of how this MP holds us in complete contempt: https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/746728892279431168
 

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The In campaign was bad. It could not change (destroy!) the myth about the EU that exists in Britain because it didn't tell positive aspects of the EU. I heard only Gordon Brown did try to do so. The campaign didn't explain good and important things about the EU. It only focused on negative aspects of the economy if the UK would leave. Many people were not interested in that. While the people will still pay the price, the EU is even more than economy alone.

Am I wrong by summarizing your vote as a protest vote? Nothing more than that. Just a middle finger vote. I understand your gut feeling, and how good must it feel to let the elite bite in the dust, but you're not just hurting the rich and the educated... What about the poor and the less educated?

Let's look further than anger. Do you honestly think that leaving the EU will solve anything you are angry about?
What is good about this, and how does it outweigh the bad?
 
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Was it a protest vote? Partly - but not completely. Leaving the EU for me is chipping away at a layer of Government that we just do not need. What we have is this:

Town/Parish council
Local/Borough council
County coucil
(in some areas) Assemblies/National parliament
Westminster MP's
EU MEP's
European commission.

Do we really need that much Government? Personally, I would rather more power was devolved locally. The higher up you get in Govts the more out of touch they become and to help people less well off, local Govts are best placed for this.
 
Are you aware of the benefits the UK has from the EU? Is it just removing a layer, is that it? No more impact?
 
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Albie makes pretty well thought-out points. Britain has an internal issue with nonsensical layers of governance, which, ironically, don't give any greater accountability or result in genuine devolution of power to a local level. Mostly because the money doesn't come down, too. Central government doesn't tolerate any sharing of power and very much wants to bring the regional authorities to ruin, particularly those of the opposite political persuasion. We have a City Region layer of governance in the Leeds area, too. It's like central government takes more and more control, but devolves blame and responsibility downwards. They've effectively stripped more and more power from local authorities, but are withdrawing more and more central funding from those regional authorities, which means they have no choice but to charge residents more and more simply to provide basic services. An awful lot of money - and this is nothing to do with the EU - is being skimmed off nationally, and is vanishing into a black hole. Not being spent directly on welfare, I know that much - people who are genuinely eligible are increasingly being denied that.
 
Sigh.

I know he makes good points but they overshadow what the Brexit is about and are not related to my questions. I am not saying his points are less important but when you vote for a Brexit it would be good to know more about the EU wouldn't it?
 
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Those of us who read lots, yes. The kind of voters who are now demanding that 'Polish vermin' go home? No.
 
This wasn't a local, or parliament election. It was not a referendum about the political layers in the UK. It was about remaining or leaving the EU.
Addressing these internal problems, that IS important but how will that go better with (how is that related to) a Brexit?
To put it mildly, your timing doesn't look that handy, Albie. I feel you're mixing it all up.

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Meanwhile: Nicola Sturgeon: Scotland could veto Brexit http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244
 
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The EU, in light of this, seriously needs to look at itself. For one, the 3rd largest contributor (as of 2014) to the EU financially just left, which leaves budget holes to plug and there is this

Screen-Shot-2016-06-23-at-00.24.21.png

Brexit-Lede-Graphic-WEB-version.png


PM_2016.06.07_brexit-01.png

PM_2016.06.07_brexit-04.png
 
Now that they leave, the UK will also cost the EU less, financially.

And yes, there are things wrong about the EU. Reform is needed.
 
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