Blasphemy and metal in Poland

LooseCannon

LooseCannon

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http://www.thenews.pl/national/artykul1 ... ction.html

Basically, death metal band Behemoth destroyed a Bible at a concert in Gdynia, and now they are getting their pants sued off by one of the conservative parts in the country. I have two questions:

1) does Poland have strong anti-blashpemy laws, and if so, could these guys soon be pantless?

2) what do you guys think of the use of blasphemy with music, destruction of holy books, and so on? (I expect we'll answer #1 quickly then have a longer discussion of #2. hehehe I said #2.)
 
I can't answer 1) but I wouldn't be surprised that the band will be punished, since the influence of the church is very strong and there are many conservative people in Poland, in all ranks.

Marta told me that the one who destroyed that Bible has a relation with a very famous (or rather infamous, because she is also controversial) pop singer, Doda. Recently he has often been in the news with her and probably that's why he and his band caught more attention of mainstream Poland, and conservative politicians.

2) I don't mind the destruction of that book in concert, and especially not in a country like Poland, where there is hardly any room for a different point view.
 
Yeah, destroying books if you're Christian or nazi sucks, but if it's the Bible that's being destroyed it's OK.  :uhm:
 
I don't see what's wrong with burning one ordinary fiction book.
 
Don't know about 1, and as for 2, I don't really care. I'm an atheist, but I don't think burning the book is necessary.

I can't say I care for them, I really don't like their music, but sueing them for that is just stupid.
 
Zare said:
I don't see what's wrong with burning one ordinary fiction book.
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Be praised Zare, you made me literally Lol  :bigsmile:

2) I don't agree with any provocations of that type.
Call it sketches of prophet Mohammed, burning Bibles and any other things that people consider as holy.
I agree for burning flags though -especially those with religion symbols inside  :D
 
Will-I-Am said:
2) I don't agree with any provocations of that type.
Call it sketches of prophet Mohammed, burning Bibles and any other things that people consider as holy.
I agree for burning flags though -especially those with religion symbols inside  :D
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So, what do you think about Life of Brian?

Regarding that second point: This week, the Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten wrote about the murder attempt against the Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard, and illustrated the article with some of his drawings of a certain "prophet" (I write "prophet" in quotes because I'm skeptical to all so-called prophets, despite my traditional Christian upbringing). The responses haven't been very big except for some demonstrations in Pakistan (the biggest group of Muslim immigrants to Norway come from Pakistan) - including burning of Norwegian flags. Well, let them do it, it just proves they are morons.

Personally, I think that religious people of all confessions should answer caricatures of their respective holy figures with rational arguments, not with slogans and riots. I find that riots as a response to provocations is a proof of each individual's stupidity. Yes, stupidity. If you are not able to cope with an insult without going berserk against anything slightly related to the insulter, you are an idiot.

However, the biggest problem is that there are leaders, political or religious, who are willing to exaggerate everything in order to stir trouble, due to something which is really nothing to riot about. Remember, when the original Muhammad cartoons came out, there were no riots. Not until a guy decided to stir trouble by not only showing the actual caricatures, but also some pictures completely unrelated, to people in the Middle East and claiming those to be part of the cartoons.

Burning a Bible isn't really that controversial today, is it? A Norwegian comedian did that in his show a couple of years ago, and the only aggression towards him was a couple of angry letters to newspapers. Most insults that can be imagined against Christians have already been carried out. Try to imagine what would happen if this Black Metal band had tried to burn a Koran instead ... the already mentioned comedian openly stated that he wouldn't do that, because he didn't want to risk his life.
 
Eddies Wingman said:
Try to imagine what would happen if this Black Metal band had tried to burn a Koran instead ...
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If Behemoth would have done that in Gdynia, they probably wouldn't have to face a lawsuit.
 
Hehe yeah i was being sarcastic, for the record i don't give a care about Bible or death metal bands, they both suck.
However the Bible is an important part of our civilization's history and provocations of this type only wide the gap between believers/non-believers and that's not right.

I agree for burning flags though -especially those with religion symbols inside
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Flags, anthems, nations, religions, each one an element of separation of the human race.
Screw them all...
 
Incidentally, nobody here noted that Behemoth is actually not death metal but black metal.
 
OK, Eddie's Wingman noted.  :blush:

Mega said:
^Blackened death.
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Musically perhaps, but their imagery of corpsepaint and blasphemy is clearly on the black metal side of things.
 
As for #2: It is not a question of if one believes in the book, if it is fiction or truth, or one's personal gripe against certain institutions or any of that crap. I'm all for freedom of expression, but there is freadom of expression and then there's being stupid.

It is a question of respect. One can say the Bible is bullshit, but no need to destroy it to prove that point. I trash talk the U.S on a daily basis even though I live here, but I don't burn its flag, or wipe my ass with its constitution.

My neighbor is offended that I flag my Mexican flag during September (Mexico's Patriotic Month), but he doesn't burn it in protest.

Point being Behemoth's band member is an idiot for having no respect and destroying what many hold as holy for mere shock value. That's just pathetic.
 
Eddies Wingman said:
So, what do you think about Life of Brian?
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Very clever question -I'm a huge fan of Brian!!
The point with Brian, is that he was not supposed to be Jesus himself, but a child born in the adjacent crib
So I don't see any blasphemy here
-yet I would definitely not make a film about a child being in the adjacent caravan with Mohamed   :D

Back to Brian, I find that this movie is respectful to Jesus -it really deals with the spirit of his era
and does it with an incredible way.
 
Will-I-Am said:
-yet I would definitely not make a film about a child being in the adjacent caravan with Mohamed   :D
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YOU HYPOCRITE!!!  :P

No, seriously, I think it's a bad thing that Behemoth face legal prosecution over burning a Bible, although I find it a daft thing to do. Also I find it bad that one cannot dare to come up with anything half as bad against a certain other religion without facing death threats. I think it is a test of how much moral fibre Europe has got. The proper reaction against things like the attempted murder on Westergaard is to put the attacker in prison just like anyone who attempts murder, and that the Danish say firmly that their society will never accept that caricature, be it harmless or really, really insulting, is met by violence - and that Denmark is not responsible for what a Danish newspaper decides to print.

I find it quite disturbing that when a Norwegian paper had an article about the original Muhammad cartoons, and included the cartoons themselves, the foreign minister (!) arranged a meeting where the editor of that newspaper was more or less forced to apologize to Muslims world-wide. A very cowardly thing to do. What he, in my opinion, should've done was to say: This government does not condone insults to Islam or any other religion, but we will never accept that insults are met with violence or threats thereof ...
 
Perun said:
OK, Eddie's Wingman noted.  :blush:

Musically perhaps, but their imagery of corpsepaint and blasphemy is clearly on the black metal side of things.
Click to expand...

Is there more to a band then the music itself?
 
Onhell said:
I'm all for freedom of expression, but there is freadom of expression and then there's being stupid.
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There's no law against being stupid.

Onhell said:
but I don't burn its flag, or wipe my ass with its constitution.
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Would you get a lawsuit on your ass if you did?
 
@Wingman:

I quite like the freedom in our civilization -even if the group will face legal prosecution, at least will not face death
as Jewish priest  :D did for saying Jehovah in Life of Brian  

Muslims are incredible sensitive about their religion and even if I agree or not, I would have been very careful when dealing with it.
Until quite recently*, we Christians have been very cruel as well, so I try not to be very strict when judging other cultures.

At some point I understand their pain: Most of Muslim states have been vastly abused by colonists and religion is their only pride.
Give them some time (which could be even a hundred years) and maybe you'll see Muslim world shine again as it did a 1000 years before.

-----
*I was referring to the Night of St. Bartholomew, but even John Lennon was shot because of his 'bigger than Jesus' quote
 
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