Best version of each Maiden album?

[chaosapiant]

So inspired by some discussions I've had on these forums regarding how this or that remaster sounds or vinyl vs CD, I'm curious what the consensus is regarding the best sounding version of each Iron Maiden album? I'm slowly building up a decent mid-fi vinyl and CD based stereo system and currently possess all of the '98 remasters on CD as well as the 2015-2017 remasters on vinyl.

For example, I've heard that The Number of the Beast 2015 remaster sounds a bit "flat" especially in the drums, and the older (pre '98) masters sound better. So what are folk's thoughts? I imagine most albums after 1990 won't really matter as there's less remasters to choose from, but I'm curious what people's thoughts are.

 

[Abas]

I will say that I didn't appreciate the debut album until the 2015 remaster.

 

[Jer]

The DOD 2015 remaster cleans up some of the mud in the production, but at a cost. In some particularly muddy places you can tell that they suppressed certain frequency ranges to allow specific instruments to stand out more, then let everything go back to normal afterward, which is pretty weird once you notice it. But it's probably still preferable to the original overall.

The AMOLAD 2015 remaster cleans up some of the leveling issues between a few tracks on the original without any apparent downsides, so I prefer it.

For everything else I'm still operating off either the originals, or my 1995 Castle 2-disc CDs (which I believe are the same mastering as the originals), so I can't speak to those. I could imagine the debut and the Blaze-era albums potentially benefitting from remasters, but I don't like them enough to put in the effort.

I'm also anti-vinyl. I think this audiophile obsession with a technology we abandoned long ago for very good reasons is absurd. The only point the hipsters have is that vinyl's inherent limitations don't allow you to do a brickwalled mastering the way that digital does, so the label is forced to do a less shitty mastering for vinyl if their mastering for digital sucked. But otherwise vinyl is inferior in every conceivable way unless you have literally superhuman hearing and really need those tones above 22KHz to sound great. And even then you could probably get HD digital files that would fully appease your superhuman hearing up to 48KHz, so vinyl still wouldn't make sense. Hissing, popping, tempo and pitch warbling, messing up track order to fit the size of the record, flipping and swapping records, putting wear on the things every time you play them -- no thanks.

 

[chaosapiant]

For original pressings on CD, would the Black Triangle Japanese releases still be the "go to" version to get, if I don't already own an original pressing? Currently I only have the remasters on vinyl and the '98 remasters on CD, so I'd like to seek out some original pressings on CD where possible.

 

[Diesel 11]

I'm also anti-vinyl. I think this audiophile obsession with a technology we abandoned long ago for very good reasons is absurd. The only point the hipsters have is that vinyl's inherent limitations don't allow you to do a brickwalled mastering the way that digital does, so the label is forced to do a less shitty mastering for vinyl if their mastering for digital sucked. But otherwise vinyl is inferior in every conceivable way unless you have literally superhuman hearing and really need those tones above 22KHz to sound great. And even then you could probably get HD digital files that would fully appease your superhuman hearing up to 48KHz, so vinyl still wouldn't make sense. Hissing, popping, tempo and pitch warbling, messing up track order to fit the size of the record, flipping and swapping records, putting wear on the things every time you play them -- no thanks.

I just like having different experiences when I listen to music. Inserting a CD or dropping the needle on a record has so much more magic to me than hitting play on my phone. I could care less about the actual audio quality, but there’s something special about physical copies, from the album artwork to booklets, inserts, sleeves, etc, and the fact that what you’re holding is THE album — not a device that can play all the albums, but that specific album. It’s a psychological thing that enhances the experience of music. I use streaming to check out new albums; I use CDs for my car; and I use vinyl at home. And I have fun utilizing all of them. That’s why I like option of formats. Same thing with movies — there’s a different experience if you’re using a VHS, LaserDisc, DVD, streaming service or pirating. And the experience elevates the art itself.

 

[Jer]

I just like having different experiences when I listen to music. Inserting a CD or dropping the needle on a record has so much more magic to me than hitting play on my phone. […] Same thing with movies — there’s a different experience if you’re using a VHS, LaserDisc, DVD, streaming service or pirating. And the experience elevates the art itself.

Well, I suppose if you grew up mostly without physical media there might be a novelty factor to it; but for people who lived through vinyl, 8-tracks, cassettes, and CDs, that final move to lossless digital with enough storage to house your entire music collection was the mountaintop we’d always hoped to reach. All of the convenience, none of the compromise.

The idea of going backward on purpose is just bizarre to someone who lived through the music technology dark ages already. It would be like someone eschewing broadband internet for a 300 baud acoustic coupler modem because they like the buzzy sounds when it connects and the gradual delivery of text as it slowly transfers over. Does it have a certain aesthetic? Sure. Is it worth putting up with when there are vastly better options that are cheaper? Not from where I sit. But, different strokes, I guess…

 

[Diesel 11]

But to me it isn’t going backwards because I still embrace the convenience of digital. It’s more of a branching out. Sure, novelty and growing up without vinyl plays a factor. I began collecting LaserDiscs for that reason — something I never knew existed and went my whole life without, now unlocks an underworld of releases and adds to my film experience. Vinyl definitely is along the same lines, but when I play it I’m not thinking, boy it sure is cool to be partaking in the mediums of my grandfathers! I’m just listening to the music swirl around me as the record spins on the turntable.

I’m certainly more of an aesthetic sorry, æsþetic driven person at my core. To me sometimes the logical options aren’t the ones that I’ll get as much out of as the more fanciful ones. And I think that’s what separates you and me. You wanna hear music, I want to experience and engage with music.

 

[chaosapiant]

Well, I suppose if you grew up mostly without physical media there might be a novelty factor to it; but for people who lived through vinyl, 8-tracks, cassettes, and CDs, that final move to lossless digital with enough storage to house your entire music collection was the mountaintop we’d always hoped to reach. All of the convenience, none of the compromise.

The idea of going backward on purpose is just bizarre to someone who lived through the music technology dark ages already. It would be like someone eschewing broadband internet for a 300 baud acoustic coupler modem because they like the buzzy sounds when it connects and the gradual delivery of text as it slowly transfers over. Does it have a certain aesthetic? Sure. Is it worth putting up with when there are vastly better options that are cheaper? Not from where I sit. But, different strokes, I guess…

I grew up in the 80s and still vastly prefer CDs and vinyls and never use streaming audio. So it’s not an age or experience thing.

 

[Jer]

I grew up in the 80s and still vastly prefer CDs and vinyls and never use streaming audio. So it’s not an age or experience thing.

I don’t stream unless I’m sampling new music, but I don’t put 5 CDs in a carousel and hit “random” anymore, either. I rip the CDs to my phone at very high quality settings and then have my entire collection in my pocket (and on my computers) all the time. Skip-free playback of anything I want in my car, on a plane, wherever, no need for a data connection. I still have the physical CD as a backup, and for the liner notes and such on the rare occasion that I want to look at them again.

If you’re saying that you still literally break out the physical CDs to listen to them, why? Do you lug them out to your car with you? Do you still have a 6-disc cartridge in your trunk? Do you enjoy it when it skips when you hit a bump? Do you enjoy the denial when you want to listen to something, but forgot to bring the disc along?

I suppose if you only ever listen to full albums at home and never want to do a full artist shuffle, and never listen to a group of songs longer than 80 minutes, or whatever, then it’s probably not that much worse to just use the CD. But otherwise, unless you’re like Mr. 11 and more concerned about the aesthetic than the quality and convenience of your music collection, I just don’t get it. You already lived through those limitations — why reshackle yourself to them?

 

[chaosapiant]

I work from home. So I listen to both actual CDs and Vinyl Records while I work. I enjoy the ritual of opening the media, popping it in, and pushing in the tray/lowering the needle.

I do have my music all ripped to my PC as well as 320kbps MP3s. But I only use those on a thumb drive in my car when traveling, which is rare. Plus it’s my car….sound quality doesn’t matter as much.

But at home, I absolutely use the media itself. That’s how I grew up. And it’s something most kids today, including my own, will never know the joy of. Coming home with a new album or CD and laying on my bed looking at the artwork and liner notes while listening to new music. Everything is instant now. It’s also so ubiquitous that it feels like it doesn’t mean as much.

 

[harrymerkin]

I'll tell you right now - the original Japanese pressing I have of 'Piece of Mind' sounds LEAGUES better than any digital version i have ever heard, including CD, Itunes, WAV whatever

I have all the original capitol CDs from the 80s/90s and they mostly sound fine and are exactly the same as the 'black triangle' japanese CDs

 

[Dick Brucinson]

The idea of going backward on purpose

This exactly. For example, just got me a high end mix & mastering rack compressor for my recording studio that comes along with a wonderful warm analogue sound.

 

[Diesel 11]

Do you enjoy it when it skips when you hit a bump?

Well, car CD technology has advanced overtime too. In my grandpa’s Buick from ‘99 I had to be more careful about bumps because it had a mind of its own sometime (and don’t get me started on the goddamn cassette player). But I have a Kia now and I haven’t had a single issue with that CD player yet.

Do you enjoy the denial when you want to listen to something, but forgot to bring the disc along?

And this is why streaming and CDs are both important. There are times when I don’t have a CD or forget them, and that’s when the digital world is great because I can just hook my phone up. These formats don’t have to be be-all-end-all. I can embrace each of them at different times for different reasons, and the freedom to choose is something I love.

 

[ironmaidenlewes]

For original pressings on CD, would the Black Triangle Japanese releases still be the "go to" version to get, if I don't already own an original pressing? Currently I only have the remasters on vinyl and the '98 remasters on CD, so I'd like to seek out some original pressings on CD where possible.

I could be mistaken but I believe the Black Triangle Japanese releases feature exactly the same mastering as the the original UK/Holland/West Germany CDs [inexpensive examples are easy to come by]. The Black Triangle's reputation as being superior is perhaps down the the physical quality of the pressing (Japanese QC and all that...!) rather than the mastering.

For what it's worth, I think the original mastering are overall the best sounding CDs, followed by the 2015 remasters.

There's some pretty technical discussions over on the Hoffman forum about the various versions: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-big-comparison-of-iron-maiden-cd-masterings.177921/

 

[Abas]

I grew up in the 80s and still vastly prefer CDs and vinyls and never use streaming audio. So it’s not an age or experience thing.

This sounds as you say that it is, but saying that it isn't. I keep reading this and wonder if I'm misconstruing it, or if this is an oxymoron.

 

[srfc]

This sounds as you say that it is, but saying that it isn't. I keep reading this and wonder if I'm misconstruing it, or if this is an oxymoron.

You are misconstruing.

Jer's argument is that people who grew up in the 80s would see the flaws of the formats they had at the time and would prefer the move onto modern formats. Chaosapiant is saying that he is the age and experience demographic that Jer is talking about, but does not prefer modern streaming formats over cds and vinyl.

 

[srfc]

Just bought that new Unto Others EP on Bandcamp. I bought the physical CD, but also was able to download the flac, the 320kbps mp3s and stream it on band camp.

Brilliant, shame more band that I like don't use bandcamp

 

[chaosapiant]

Yea, what srfc said. I maybe could've worded it better. Another way to put it is that preferring physical media is not necessarily tied to age or experience. A preference is just a preference.

Another point I wanted to make in my other post was this: I personally feel less connection and investment with music I can access instantly. For example, I was 18 when Virtual XI came out. I thoroughly enjoyed X Factor and went out and bought VXI on CD when it was released. So I got to just relax in my bedroom, pop the CD in and look at the liner notes and read the lyrics. I feel like this investment on my part made a deeper connection with the music. It also means I'm more likely to give music that doesn't gel with me right away more chances. Because it's not something that popped up where I just went "eh, not for me" 10 seconds in. And again, this is just my personal opinion and experience. I'm by no means saying that folks who prefer digital or streaming formats are less connected to their music. But that is indeed the case for me.

 

[chaosapiant]

So I'm listening to the vinyl remaster of AMOLAD now that I have decent/good speakers and a new phono preamp on my turntable, and this album sounds absolutely phenomenal. Crystal clear and the cymbal work is phenomenal. Not sure why i'm focused on the symbols, but the drums in general just sound so much more punchy and clear.

I've been doing a lot of research lately on the "truth" of whether CDs or Vinyl sounds better and have come away with the answer that while CD is still a technically superior format, the way vinyls are mastered and not so compressed generally means that they sound better. And I've seen a lot of debate on whether a person can even hear the difference and, for me at least, the difference is night and day. I'm sure there's frequency differences I'm not hearing, but the difference in "space" on the album vs the CD is huge.

 

[Jer]

while CD is still a technically superior format, the way vinyls are mastered and not so compressed generally means that they sound better.

As I'd already mentioned, this is only a factor when the CD mastering is shit in the first place, because the technical limitations of vinyl don't allow you to get away with mastering it quite so shittily. If the CD mastering isn't shit (see pretty much anything pressed in the 1980s, for example), then the vinyl reproduction will be objectively worse within the range of human hearing.

And I've seen a lot of debate on whether a person can even hear the difference and, for me at least, the difference is night and day. I'm sure there's frequency differences I'm not hearing, but the difference in "space" on the album vs the CD is huge.

This will depend entirely on the mastering jobs done for that specific album on CD and vinyl. If the CD is an overcompressed nightmare, then yes, the dynamic range on vinyl will be noticeably better. If not, then it won't be.