A bit pissed off...

[Yax]

Ok, here's the background story...

A friend of mine, whoose parents are born in Portugal and Iran have got a asian name. And, because of my very nice country (which inhabitans are absolutly not hostile to immigrants) he has decided to switch name to a more Swedish one. It's not becasue he dislikes his name, but becasue it's much easier to get as job if you've got a more European sounding name. I mean, what kind of a world are we living in if we are constantly generalising and thinking all immigrants are vandals, terrorists and thiefs? It's immoral as hell. And then we keep whining about how people in Iran are treated. Well, do we treat them very good when they flee here? No. We kick them out and send them back and we are spitting on them when they are already lying down knocked out.

Conclusion: This world suck. It really do.



Yes, I might be overreacting, but I'm really pissed off...

 

[IronDuke]

Re: A bit pissed of...

I can't agree more with your conclusion. People suck ass when it comes to stuff like this.

 

[Natalie]

And, because of my very nice country (which inhabitans are absolutly not hostile to immigrants)

This is a bit of sarcasm, right? Because Sweden, although widely acknowledged to be an immigrant-friendly country, is hypocritical and not in the least bit friendly when it comes to immigrants, as I see it. I mean, it's already bad enough if your skin is just a shade less white than everyone elses, or if you have dark brown hair and are short (like me). Most people in Sweden don't fit this description so whenever I go to a grocery store, cashiers lokk me up and down and speak swedish haughtily. It startles them everytime I reply in fluent swedish. Then they're all smiles and really friendly. 

It's even worse with my mom who's Mexican and definitely looks foreign. People stare at her in the streets, for crying out loud! 

 

[Yax]

This is a bit of sarcasm, right?

A bit? It's sarcasm down to every letter.

 

[IronDuke]

Canada is just as bad, depending on where you go. In a big city like Montreal or Toronto, it's not so much an issue due to there being so many immigrants and also non-whites who've lived here for generations.

But if you come to a smaller city or in the rural areas(less than 100,000 we'll say), people are such bigots sometimes. I live with a Mexican and an Indian (from India, not an aboriginal). When we go out to the pub or something, sometimes some assholes will make comments about "Pakis" or "Spics". A few weeks ago some drunk idiot tried to pick a fight with the Indian just because he was speaking Hindi to another Indian. (He backed off when he realised I was with them - I can be intimidating when I wish)

 

[Onhell]

This is a bit of sarcasm, right? Because Sweden, although widely acknowledged to be an immigrant-friendly country, is hypocritical and not in the least bit friendly when it comes to immigrants, as I see it. I mean, it's already bad enough if your skin is just a shade less white than everyone elses, or if you have dark brown hair and are short (like me). Most people in Sweden don't fit this description so whenever I go to a grocery store, cashiers lokk me up and down and speak swedish haughtily. It startles them everytime I reply in fluent swedish. Then they're all smiles and really friendly. 

It's even worse with my mom who's Mexican and definitely looks foreign. People stare at her in the streets, for crying out loud! 

Well, Swedish people don't dispair. In Mexico I'm always seen as a gringo, which is really weird because here in the states I'm able to spot all the Mexicans even if they are white and dress in jeans and a t-shirt. I can tell because of their body language, even their features (regardless of skin color), the way they carry themselves and it's funny, but I can tell even in their eyes. In Mexico bums ask me for dollars in broken english and I just reply in fluent spanish I don't have any. It doesn't help I hang out with my bilingual friends and speak mostly in English or switch between the two every other sentence hahaha. But still, it sucks that I'm viewed as a foreigner in my home country. And in the U.S once they find out I'm Mexican they just look at me suspiciously.

 

[IronDuke]

Move to Toronto, Onhell. That's the only advice I can give you.

Everyone in Canada loves to hate Toronto, but I've seen a place so tolerant and accepting. If I couldn't live on the East Coast, I'd be in the Big T in a heartbeat.

 

[ABandOn]

What makes me angry about these situations is that here in Italy (does this happen in your countries too?) the media often feed the hate against foreign people: when a crime happens, and the guilty is unknown, the first thing that you hear on the news is that "the suspected could be immigrants", whether they are or not...this is a really dangerous behaviour in my opinion, it contributes to lead some guys to stupid intolerance we are talking about, as they see foreign people as a constant menace to their lives.

 

[Anonymous]

In Northern Ireland, Catholic/Protestant hate crimes are becoming less common and racist hate crimes are becoming more common.  I guess people just don't like people who are different.  It's nothing to do with "stealing jobs" or "damaging the country" etc, it's just because people are different ethnically.

 

[Albie]

One of the problems we have in (in particular) England is that it has lately attracted a lot of illegal immigrants. And because of this, people's attitudes have changed greatly whereby they have this inkling in their heads that any immigrant is illegal (this leads them to think the worst of any person from any Eastern European country). The immigrants are often seen as taking jobs from the average person and using the NHS as a means of getting free medical treatment.

It really is a contentious issue when it comes onto the political battlefield, so to speak - we get the current government accused of been to soft to the point of been a push over, and the opposition to hard to the point of been racist. What politicians maybe need to realise is why people want to come here in the first place and help these people out so the sneaking onto the backs of lorries etc. (not very humane is it?) will maybe become a thing of the past. If people need to come here for a better way of life or indeed to seek asylum or whatever, they need to be allowed and if they are made as legal immigrants they will be paid a proper wage and not cash in hand where they are used as cheap labour. Because of this problem we have with illegal immigrants forces these people to take a crap job on a building site, or whatever, without any form of employment protection and then go home to a small dingy flat crammed in with God knows how many others.

A good example of the need for immigrants is the situation they have in Scotland where (by all accounts) it is the only dwindling population in the Western world. This does not bode well for the future economy of this country.

 

[IronDuke]

A good example of the need for immigrants is the situation they have in Scotland where (by all accounts) it is the only dwindling population in the Western world. This does not bode well for the future economy of this country.

Actually, Canada's birth rate is so low that this country is only growing because we let in 2-300,000 immigrants per year. There's a sad circle involved too: The immigrants, quite naturally, want to move to a part of Canada where they can find work (this means the big cities). The rural areas and smaller centres, therefore, tend to have shrinking populations and no contact with immigrants, so they distrust them even more.
The last major waves of immigration to Nova Scotia, for example, were thousands of Dutch refugees after the War, and about 3000 families of Lebanese Christians in the early 1980s.

 

[Belenor]

Well, In the Czech Republic, it seems to me we have no problems with immigrants. Probably this country is not that interesting as other countries. We have another problems Homeless beggars and, sadly, gypsies. Immigrants come from Vietnam, China and former Soviet Union states. Some of them do cause trouble, but not that much as our politicians ;-) and gypsies. The problem with gypsies is that they are accustomed to take money from our social system without working, the result of 40 years of communist goverment. And not only them, but a large number of 'white' citizens does the same which is why this country is going to hell :-/

 

[Genghis Khan]

Well, In the Czech Republic, it seems to me we have no problems with immigrants. Probably this country is not that interesting as other countries. We have another problems Homeless beggars and, sadly, gypsies. Immigrants come from Vietnam, China and former Soviet Union states. Some of them do cause trouble, but not that much as our politicians ;-) and gypsies. The problem with gypsies is that they are accustomed to take money from our social system without working, the result of 40 years of communist goverment. And not only them, but a large number of 'white' citizens does the same which is why this country is going to hell :-/

Communism does have a way of sucking energy and life out of people. 

 

[^^MeTaLeRo^^]

Every economic system has state-suckers. They live thanks to the people who work, produce and contribute to the country.
Mine has never had a communist government, however, we´ve plenty of those individuals.... 

 

[Genghis Khan]

Every [politico-]economic system has state-suckers. They live thanks to the people who work, produce and contribute to the country.
Mine has never had a communist government, however, we´ve plenty of those individuals.... 

With that minor (bold) adjustement, I'd like to say that I absolutely agree with you.  However, having been born in a communist country I can assure you that when people are told that they can have something for nothing and that's the only system they've known it is hard if not virtually impossible for many minds to accept that there is truly no such thing as free lunch.  The best example I can think of is Russia where a good number are still longing for the 'good old days of communism'.  When I said that communism sucks the life out of you, I meant this first and formost in the intellectual sense, then political and finally in the economic sense (which is the way you interpreted my comment).  (I know I wasn't clear at first...).  For a good example of how communism robs people of intelligence is the hatreds in the former Yugoslavia, which leads me to the main point of this thread.

I think Einstein summarized it best when he said "Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race."  I'd add 'racism' as nationalism's older cousin.

Move to Toronto, Onhell. That's the only advice I can give you.

Everyone in Canada loves to hate Toronto, but I've seen a place so tolerant and accepting. If I couldn't live on the East Coast, I'd be in the Big T in a heartbeat.

There is a love-hate relationship between Toronto and the rest of Canada and most of Toronto critics are unjustified in my view, but there are still bad apples in Toronto.  Luckily, most are working to keep the image of a truly multi-cultural city.  For instance, I love it when during the World Cup everybody loves to cheer and support whichever country they choose.  It is also good to see that many put Canadian flags on their cars as well as that of their country of origin. 

If anyone is thinking of pointing out a contradiction in that I criticized nationalism and then supported flag-waving, let me say that I think the former believes in superiority of one's country/nation/people over others while the latter simply identifies culturally with one's country/nation/people.

 

[^^MeTaLeRo^^]

The best example I can think of is Russia where a good number are still longing for the 'good old days of communism'.  When I said that communism sucks the life out of you, I meant this first and formost in the intellectual sense, then political and finally in the economic sense (which is the way you interpreted my comment).  (I know I wasn't clear at first...).  For a good example of how communism robs people of intelligence is the hatreds in the former Yugoslavia, which leads me to the main point of this thread.

Between 1973 and 1985, there was a dictatorship period in my country. The extreme-right Army faction took by force the government (as in many other countries of South America)...quite sad as you can imagine 
However, although MANY people dissapeared or died, some are still looking back for those sad years...such a retrograde attitude 
In conclusion, though we´re talking about opposite factions (extreme-right/left), the harm that they caused to the country is the same.... 

 

[Anonymous]

Between 1973 and 1985, there was a dictatorship period in my country. The extreme-right Army faction took by force the government (as in many other countries of South America)...quite sad as you can imagine 
However, although MANY people dissapeared or died, some are still looking back for those sad years...such a retrograde attitude 
In conclusion, though we´re talking about opposite factions (extreme-right/left), the harm that they caused to the country is the same.... 

Yeah, it's funny how everybody wants to get us to become soppy about "9/11" and not give a damn about Chile's 11th September.

Hegemony of sympathy? You bet...

(Sorry for being off-topic)

 

[Genghis Khan]

Between 1973 and 1985, there was a dictatorship period in my country. The extreme-right Army faction took by force the government (as in many other countries of South America)...quite sad as you can imagine 
However, although MANY people dissapeared or died, some are still looking back for those sad years...such a retrograde attitude 
In conclusion, though we´re talking about opposite factions (extreme-right/left), the harm that they caused to the country is the same.... 

Yeah, it's funny how everybody wants to get us to become soppy about "9/11" and not give a damn about Chile's 11th September.

Hegemony of sympathy? You bet...

(Sorry for being off-topic)

Yep, you're right.  In my case, I am biased (read: still unsettled  ) about former Yugo and have a particular (peculiar) fixation on that... well, enough about that... 
The western world finds it easier to ignore crimes against freedom when it does not affect them directly.  I think the American media (AND government!) have more of an influence on the globe so there is a predominant focus on 9/11 as opposed to other attrocities.

 

[Anonymous]

Here in the USA there is so much underlying racists against immigrants its insane. People feel immigrants are taking jobs away from americans and much of the sentiment is "go back to where you came from". Isn't this the irony of all ironies since USA was founded by immigrants...

whats more is that the country is EXTREMELY divided. People either love you or hate you. There is no middle ground. Sections of the country are very polarized too and there seams to be a large wedge dividing the country politically, socially and economically.

A lot of people think americans are cocky assholes who are ignorant and most of us BUT there is a large portion that are very excepting like myself and are very well versed in worldly affairs.

I hear what you are saying though LAX. People in this world look at you and immediately start judging but I think that this could be primal instinct not just learned behavior.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Here in the USA there is so much underlying racists against immigrants its insane. People feel immigrants are taking jobs away from americans and much of the sentiment is "go back to where you came from". Isn't this the irony of all ironies since USA was founded by immigrants...

whats more is that the country is EXTREMELY divided. People either love you or hate you. There is no middle ground. Sections of the country are very polarized too and there seams to be a large wedge dividing the country politically, socially and economically.

A lot of people think americans are cocky assholes who are ignorant and most of us BUT there is a large portion that are very excepting like myself and are very well versed in worldly affairs.

I hear what you are saying though LAX. People in this world look at you and immediately start judging but I think that this could be primal instinct not just learned behavior.

Bigotry is more than just primal instinct.  Learned behaviour -- definitely -- and practiced with blinders on.