Here we go again...Iron Maiden sued over the rights of 6 songs

Dr. Eddies Wingman said:
Anyone who shows up somewhere throwing shit around is asking for a beating.

This behavior only makes sense if McKay/Wilcock have approached Maiden in a civilized manner, with reasonable arguments, and been told to fuck off. So far, I can't see that any real arguments have been put forward by McKay, only accusations and attacks on Harris' character. Even in the Beckett case, where the copying itself was clear-cut, it seemed like McKay's first priority was to paint Harris as a villain. He makes this very personal and that is completely uncalled for, regardless of song credits.
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I think that in such case it would be the first thing he would mention because it would help him paint Steve as bad guy. If he didn’t mention it it’s almost 100% sure that he didn’t do it.
 
Forostar said:
Old post.

:---P
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How old??
mcbrain_nicko_5.jpg

:lol:
 
There are multiple layers to this.

But McKay has taken great pains to paint Steve Harris as a man who has appropriated Dennis Willcock’s art as his own and has, in the process, procured for himself a privileged life while abandoning Willcock to struggle.

This cannot be true. Like Steve’s, Willcock’s life as an artist is predominantly a product of his talent and his pursuit of his muse.

The idea that Dennis Willcock played a role in the development of some early Maiden songs is plausible. Uncredited band members help create music all the time; I give you Nicko’s intro to Where Eagles Dare.

But the idea that he played a central role in these songs is unlikely. And the idea that he had a significant role in the success of Iron Maiden is laughable.

All the evidence I need can be found within their respective artistic bodies of work.
 
Zare said:
That post is the epitome of "enough said" phrase.

He's in a band for 3 years, writes a shit ton of lyrics, goes away, band signs deal on the back of his work in 2 years time, band makes it worldwide in additional 2 years of time, band becomes iconic, band remains iconic for the 30+ years and now in 2018 he's claiming ownership of the lyrics?

Bullshit.
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Yeah, and I love this from the Blabbermouth article: "Willcock, who fronted MAIDEN from 1976 to 1978, was replaced in the band by Paul Di'Anno. Dennis claims never knew his lyrics were used because he never listened to the band's albums."

If I wrote a bunch of songs for a band and then that band recorded them after I left and became famous, I would damn sure listen to them and make sure I was credited properly.
 
Another thing I find implausible - even if Dennis Willcock didn't know that those songs made it onto the first album, he must have realised that the band would continue to play them. Let's assume for a moment that he really did write those five songs: did he think that they would be instantly and automatically removed from the setlist the moment he lost interest and buggered off, and for that reason? That would have been arrogant/vain/naive in the extreme. So one would assume he would put some agreement in place about the continued use of his material, if he was at all bothered about it at the time.
 
Magnus said:
No, this particular text has been there long before the case.
And authorship of Sanctuary has been discussed here more than once.
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Yeah, I know the authorship is well known, I was interested in why it's falsely claimed on wiki that the source of this info is the liner notes on Metal for Muthas.
 
Forostar said:
Easier said than done. Hard to make an agreement without cooperation. Bigger chance that at least one of the parties did not want/do this.
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Possibly. But the point is that Willcock's case is dependent on two things:

1) that he had no knowledge that "his material" continued to be used by Maiden after he left, and
2) he only discovered this completely out of the blue four years ago.

If we accept 1) then we must assume that when he walked out of Maiden he did simply turn his back and didn't care enough to enquire or keep up with what they were doing with it. Otherwise 2) is blown completely out of the water.
 
Black Abyss Babe said:
Possibly. But the point is that Willcock's case is dependent on two things:

1) that he had no knowledge that "his material" continued to be used by Maiden after he left, and
2) he only discovered this completely out of the blue four years ago.

If we accept 1) then we must assume that when he walked out of Maiden he did simply turn his back and didn't care enough to enquire or keep up with what they were doing with it. Otherwise 2) is blown completely out of the water.
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It's also dependent on a third thing, Wilcock having some evidence he had anything to do with the songs.
 
srfc said:
It's also dependent on a third thing, Wilcock having some evidence he had anything to do with the songs.
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Indeed, and that will be the proof of the pudding. But fact that it also depends on both my points being true doesn't make him look good, since it requires that he didn't give a toss at any time previously, which makes it kind of suspicious that he cares so much now. I find the juxtaposition implausible to say the least. But he has no choice but to go with it because the alternative is that he knew much earlier and so is out of his six-year time limit, and therefore screwed.
 
stjerky said:
I don't see the comments anymore. Have they been censored?
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This was posted yesterday and I think this is McKay's latest post:
My legal action against Steve Harris and Dave Murray is nothing to do with GIBRALTAR. This TONY MILES person just wants to try to be important…he wants to be a big fish in his tiny pond. He is not even a tadpole. Perhaps he hopes to be seen as the saviour of Steve Harris, the song thief…and his cohort, Dave Murray? Well, tough luck Tony…because GIBRALTAR doesn’t matter. Even if Dennis had played with Gibraltar until the year 2000…neither you or ‘Gibraltar’ matters one jot.

My message to you and to those relatively few people who write such rude and pig-ignorant posts about Dennis Willcock and about me, is this:- YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU DON’T KNOW…BECAUSE YOU JUST DON’T KNOW !

The silent, intelligent majority of IRON MAIDEN fans have read what has been revealed and is being revealed and realise that something is very wrong about IRON MAIDEN’S early song credits. Many of maiden's fans are highly intelligent.

Dennis Willcock was invited to the Houses of Parliament for lunch with a government minister last month, who happens to be a Maiden fan….and my legal claim is taken very seriously. Dennis has been cheated, written out of the band’s true history and now he is being defamed and insulted by those very same song thieves, Harris and Murray.

Harris and his management are now having to take me on…and I never lose.

If, all of a sudden, you never ever hear anything else about this claim…it could mean that we have settled, as did my previous claim. I would like Harris and Murray to apologise to Dennis even if it is in private...then they have a chance of getting this settled quietly. If not…they don’t.

I will say it again... Steve Harris is a great talent, Iron Maiden are an incredible band…Dave Murray is a superb guitar player and they have worked hard to get where they are…and in the process their managers have made themselves a fortune. But why cheat other musicians? It was unnecessary and quite nasty. Who's idea was it??

The theft of two entire verses of lyrics by Steve Harris for Hallowed Be Thy Name and the theft of music by Steve Harris and Murray for The Nomad is fact. That’s why they paid out £900,000 in legal fees and damages.

The current claim is about early Maiden songs and the only fact that matters is…WHO WROTE THE LYRICS AND WHO NAMED THE SONGS? THe Answer: Dennis wrote all of the original lyrics for Prowler/Phantom/Charlotte and he also rewrote the lyrics for the song Iron Maiden and he performed those lyrics during his lengthy time in IRON MAIDEN without forgetting them! The proof is in the various recordings of Maiden’s live gigs when the band was so brilliantly fronted by Dennis Willcock that Steve Harris begged him not to leave.

After Dennis left Maiden, Steve Harris eventually messed around with Dennis’s lyrics and changed some of them to a degree …because he was useless at writing Maiden lyrics. Harris left in most of Dennis’s work and dishonestly claimed the credit. WHY? As for Dave Murray, he shared in the spoils. Were they advised to do this by ROD SMALLWOOD? Well, we now know that Maiden’s management certainly knew about the verses copied from the BECKETT album that should not have been in 'Hallowed Be Thy Name' at the time that first LP was being recorded in early 1980. They knew about Harris's use of these verses during the recording sessions, well before the first LP was released…they all took a chance and it has back-fired.

They also cheated Dennis Willcock out of over £2m in royalties

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=2929

“This is one of the few Iron Maiden songs written by their guitarist Dave Murray. Maiden bass player Steve Harris said: "This is really Dave's song. I would have been proud to say that I'd written it. I like playing it live because it was something different than I would write." Now, Dave Murray refuses to take credit... clearly because he is not prepared to lie in court. So who wrote the lyrics? All of a sudden…Steve Harris now claims to have written the lyrics to Charlotte. RUBBISH! Look at the record label…

http://www.45worlds.com/vinyl/album/fa4131211ru That is another serious error the pair of them have made.

http://www.maidenthebeast.com/web/albums/metal-for-muthas

Look at the credit for SANCTUARY on the record label. It says HARRIS. He deceived EMI and the fans. This song was totally written by Mr Bob Sawyer.

http://www.45cat.com/record/em288

Look at the credit for Hallowed Be Thy Name…it said HARRIS when it should have said HARRIS/BARTON/QUINN

On reading what some serious Maiden fans, who appear to be in the know, have posted over the past few years (thanks to the growth in social media) it seems that many of them believe that lyrics and music were simply claimed by Harris irrespective of who should have been credited and that after the event some of those writers were allegedly paid off. Others (such as Barton/Quinn and Dennis Willcock) were not paid off or credited. They took a chance.

Source: http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ir...wsuit-filed-by-former-singer-dennis-willcock/

From the same source, what was supposed to be McKay's "final" posts on Blabbermouth, a few days earlier:
PART ONE of my FINAL POST on this website:

THE TRUTH ABOUT THE DENNIS WILLCOCK/STEVER HARRIS DISPUTE

THE TRUTH ABOUT THE DENNIS WILLCOCK/STEVER HARRIS DISPUTE

Iron Maiden and their management tried to side-line Dennis Willcock ever since they started to be successful and obtain their first record release….because Dennis wrote many of the lyrics for Iron Maiden’s new music during his time in the band. When Dennis left (much against Steve Harris’s wishes) to join V1, he wrote all of the lyrics for V1’s ten songs, within weeks.

After leaving Iron Maiden, Dennis joined V1 and wrote the lyrics to all of their original music. It is fairly typical for singers/frontmen to write lyrics. It was not normal for Harris. V1 were offered recording contracts but their management (nowhere near as strong or capable as Rod Smallwood) messed it up. I’ve seen managers blow recording deals by refusing to accept offers and pushing for more money and ending up with nothing. Dennis gave up trying to make it in the music business...and Maiden had yet to break through. Dennis put it all behind him and threw himself into his successful graphic design business where he worked in advertising for decades. He played in a band purely for enjoyment called Gibraltar but that was never serious and one particular member ruined the enjoyment for him by his troublesome behaviour ( trying to persuade Dennis that the bass player, a friend of Dennis, should be sacked, which Dennis refused to do) and Dennis ended up packing in with bands completely. Dennis then had nothing at all to do with performing until 2014 after he first appeared on social media. He had totally turned his back on it all for decades.

Iron Maiden and their management have since tried to blame Dennis for sacking everyone. DENNIS WAS IN IRON MAIDEN FOR CLOSE TO THREE YEARS and was there throughout the time they really built up their impressive pub-circuit following, which later attracted the attention of both Rod Smallwood and EMI Records

Iron Maiden and their management deliberately DID NOT invite Dennis Willcock back for the Early Years DVD.

Iron Maiden’s management now seek to attempt to accuse Dennis, a frontman of band’s for many years, of never being able to remember his own lyrics. That is self-serving and an attempt to cover Harris’s lies. This is totally untrue and can be proven to be untrue.

Dennis Willcock only discovered what had actually happened with his lyrics in 2014. After that Dennis tried to engage with Steve Harris but Steve Harris completely ignored him... and all of this is because Steve Harris knew that he had taken credit for Dennis Willcock’s work (and made a LOT of money from that work) and/or because Steve Harris hoped that Dennis Willcock would never bring a claim.

I am able to admire Rod Smallwood for all he has achieved for Iron Maiden...he’s almost a great manager. I don’t like his ruthless attitude towards those who wrote Maiden material who he does not represent but I have seen this before with other managers and lawyers. What Steve Harris has achieved is also most impressive and he has worked hard to make it happen. But he could have been equally successful by being honest. That is why I am so disappointed to be fighting yet another battle with the very same people.

I hate having to take legal action against talented musicians. What I would like to see is a friendly reunion of the early IRON MAIDEN heritage members including Dennis Willcock and Steve Harris, who used to be great friends and remained friendly even after Dennis left Maiden in 1978 until Smallwood came along. Steve used to go along to V1 gigs regularly.

and

PART TWO of my FINAL POST on this website:

I would like to see Steve Harris acknowledging the work of others not yet credited who wrote lyrics and music for IRON MAIDEN even if they may have been paid off in the past, such are the rumours. I would like to see Dennis Willcock fully compensated for the publishing royalties that he should have received since 1980 and that he should still be receiving going forwards as well as credited. Dennis deserves at least that. Steve Harris could easily afford to do this, especially if his managers contribute from the share they have taken over the decades. I would like to see Bob Sawyer provided with a suitably generous payment to compensate him for what happened back in 1980 with Sanctuary. I would like to see Bruce Dickinson’s company (Rock Hard Records Ltd) treat Barry (Thunderstick) Perkis generously and decently because Barry has never received an account since the year he signed a contract with that company who have his songs and recordings. I would also like to see Steve Harris and IRON MAIDEN continue to perform around the world and record for many years to come.

IRON MAIDEN are a fantastic band and their managers do many things really well, especially with their brilliant marketing the band and all of the connected products. What I don’t want to see again is IRON MAIDEN lawyers earning way more than any damages which are paid out in future, as happened with the previous Life’s Shadow claim, when combined damages paid out to Barton and Brian Quinn were £180,000 but the legal costs in getting there were over £700,000. Back in 1985 I was involved in a connected series of High Court legal actions regarding a famous chart-topping ‘pop’ group, where the guy running the case for the Defendants also happened to be the manager of another famous heavy metal band. I uncovered perjury and as a result all of their claims against me along with their Defence collapsed, whereupon the Attorney General was called in to investigate. Those intending to give evidence in this case need to get real. The harsh reality of a High Court trial is a serious matter.

In 2001 Steve Harris stated, in the TV/DVD documentary Classic Albums: Iron Maiden – The Number of the Beast released on 26 November 2001 and directed by Tim Kirkby, that “If I'm writing a song and if it's, if it's just got my name on it then I've written everything, you know, except the guitar solos."

Sixteen years later, in a May 2017 interview with Seymour Duncan, Steve Harris made similar false claims:-

http://www.seymourduncan.com/.../talking-tone-with-iron...

Question from Seymour Duncan:-

"As Iron Maiden’s chief songwriter, what form are the songs in when you present them to the rest of the band?"

Reply from Steve Harris:-

"If you see a credit with just my name on it, that means I write absolutely everything. Rhythm guitar parts, guitar melodies, vocal melodies, absolutely everything really. The only thing I don’t write is the guitar solos but even then I might suggest one or two things."

The above comments beg the inference that Steve Harris had something to hide. It seems to me that Steve Harris and/or Rod Smallwood is a control freak and extremely concerned to be re-writing history as they wish it to be known.…for instance, the authorised history of the band is littered with made-up, so-called facts. One typical example is how Steve Harris supposedly formed IRON MAIDEN. No…he did not form Iron Maiden. As a young, amateur bass player, he joined an existing band when their bass player left. That is the band that became Iron Maiden.

Barry McKay
 
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