Iced Earth
- Thread starter Forostar
- Start date
Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
I'm not sure what you mean by "we" since I've always liked them (well, apart from 'Crucible of Man') and in Night Prowler's eyes they can do no wrong. I'm also unsure what you mean by Schaffer having "lost his marbles". I don't think he had any in the first place, he's always been nuts.
No, that goes for Barlow only. IMO all songs he recorded with Iced Earth are awesome.
I would say that Schaffer did "lose his marbles" when it comes to his conspiracy theories and crazy paranoid political views. Which, of course, has nothing to do with Iced Earth's music.
Unknown One
I see the ghost of navigators.
No 
Right, from just reading the last page of the thread, most comments appear to be quite negative. Personally I think the last good album was Horror Show, although though GB had its moments.
Also, Schaffer's craziness definitely extends beyond conspiracy theories; the fact that people are constantly leaving the band should be a testament to that.
Black Sabbath changed almost as many members between Ozzy's exit and his return to the band, does that mean that Iommi's crazy too?
Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
Ozzy has always been crazy, and it probably rubbed off on Iommi.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
I think it was right around the time he released that weird American-flag waving side project where he did all the lead vocals and sung about eagles a lot. Oh wait, he did that in Iced Earth, too...
Come on, now...not knocking Barlow's performances (which are always great) but he sang on some really shitty material. Especially on Crucible of Man.
Unless "marbles" means "balls" and @Perun was saying that Schaffer's music has no power anymore? To that...I'd kind of agree.
Very much agreed. Horror Show is my favorite IE album, and the last time I think Schaffer has done something new and exciting. The Gettsyburg trilogy was quite good and Framing Armageddon, Crucible of Man, and Dystopia have their moments, but those moments are so sandwiched between bland, rehashed songs and boring instrumental work that it's hard to tell.
I respect your opinion.
Unknown One
I see the ghost of navigators.
Come What May is one of those moments that MrKnickerbocker was talking about
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MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
Exactly. Possibly the only moment on that whole album.
Unknown One
I see the ghost of navigators.
I'd have Behold the Wicked Child and Sacrifical Kingdoms on the moments list as well, but yeah the rest isn't too great.
IMO The Dimension Gauntlet and Something Wicked, Part 3 are the weakest songs on that album. Everything else is good to awesome.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Love The Dimension Gauntlet. One of the highlights of that album. But it should be mentioned in one breath with Crown of the Fallen:
Great melodies and awesome riffs that didn't get better afterwards. When I heard this stuff I thought: yes this is better than the bulk of the previous record with Ripper. There's a huge discussion on these two albums, far away in this thread. 
Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
I prefer 'Framing Armageddon'.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
Nah, I just don't get it. Those songs do nothing for me. Something happened with the two Something Wicked saga albums that ruined Schaffer's songwriting (to a further extent).
Why are more than half of the songs on those two albums 3 mins or less? Iced Earth has always been a "song" band. They rely on the power of individual songs to prove how awesome they are. Yes, they have some trilogies and two-parters that work really well, but they have never been an "album" band. For instance, Opeth is an album band. If you take most random Opeth songs and pull them out of the context of the album, they lose something. Iced Earth songs don't. Yet, with FA and COM, Jon Schaffer tried to make them an album band. The problem here is, he's clearly so focused on "realizing his grand vision" that the songs suffer. He's focusing on overall strength of the album, but the sum of the its parts do not measure up. Thus, both albums end up sounding like a never-ending build up to something bigger (at best) or an overstuffed collection of half-baked ideas (at worst).
Why are more than half of the songs on those two albums 3 mins or less? Iced Earth has always been a "song" band. They rely on the power of individual songs to prove how awesome they are. Yes, they have some trilogies and two-parters that work really well, but they have never been an "album" band. For instance, Opeth is an album band. If you take most random Opeth songs and pull them out of the context of the album, they lose something. Iced Earth songs don't. Yet, with FA and COM, Jon Schaffer tried to make them an album band. The problem here is, he's clearly so focused on "realizing his grand vision" that the songs suffer. He's focusing on overall strength of the album, but the sum of the its parts do not measure up. Thus, both albums end up sounding like a never-ending build up to something bigger (at best) or an overstuffed collection of half-baked ideas (at worst).
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Both these albums contain 7 songs that are 4 minutes or longer. Who knows Schaffer had these 14 songs and needed to make lots of interludes and short songs to build two albums on the concept. Maybe you would have preferred 1 album with these 14 but it is possible that he really wrote these albums separately.
Still, last time I checked math I didn't find a rule that said: Short length songs = crap songs or crap album
Besides: I think that some of these longer songs on these albums get quite repetitive , so I don't mind shorter songs. Not every album needs to be done in the same way. Maiden used to have way more shorter songs in the past, and nowadays they have more trouble with such writing.
And Iced Earth have been an album band, although you might mean it in a different light. Just wanted to stress that especially the second and third albums are very cohesive and a great ride from first to the last second. No filler, all killer.
Still, last time I checked math I didn't find a rule that said: Short length songs = crap songs or crap album
Besides: I think that some of these longer songs on these albums get quite repetitive , so I don't mind shorter songs. Not every album needs to be done in the same way. Maiden used to have way more shorter songs in the past, and nowadays they have more trouble with such writing.
And Iced Earth have been an album band, although you might mean it in a different light. Just wanted to stress that especially the second and third albums are very cohesive and a great ride from first to the last second. No filler, all killer.
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Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Of course, also shorter songs can be painfully repetitive. This is what happened on a piece called Setian Massacre:
*shakes head in disbelief and pinches his arm to see if he is really on a Maiden forum*
You guys really prefer such mindless music over melodic work as in the clip I posted?
*shakes head in disbelief and pinches his arm to see if he is really on a Maiden forum*
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
It's not simply based on the songs being short, it's about the quality of those short songs. If you've written a blistering 3 minutes song that is great from start to finish, go for it, but when Iced Earth writes short songs, they sound forced and unfinished. Most of the songs on Dark Saga are under four minutes, but the difference is: they are quality songs. FA and COM just seem like Schaffer using one riff and a bland chorus to justify an entire song. Why not combine the intros and the songs, shorten or elongate certain parts, and create better tracks that seem well-rounded and thought out?
I think that both albums were absolutely crammed with filler. If Schaffer had only used 14-16 tracks total for the whole thing, I think we'd all have a different opinion on it. But, then again, Barlow would have never sang those songs, so it's a crapshoot all the way around.
Also, ROFLcoptering at your description of "Setian Massacre"
I think that both albums were absolutely crammed with filler. If Schaffer had only used 14-16 tracks total for the whole thing, I think we'd all have a different opinion on it. But, then again, Barlow would have never sang those songs, so it's a crapshoot all the way around.
Also, ROFLcoptering at your description of "Setian Massacre"