Complex vs. simple Maiden songs

SinisterMinisterX

Illuminatus
Staff member
Back when [a href=\'http://ouray.cudenver.edu/~pbarmstr/imtop20.html\' target=\'_blank\']this page[/a] was still being updated (it's now dead), I found it interesting that most of the top songs on this list are songs that I would generally describe as being fairly complex. However, this is just a gut-level feeling; I had no specific criteria for what distinguished a song as being 'complex' or 'simple'. So I sat down one night and tried to think up some criteria - musical elements that contribute to the complexity of a song.

First of all, I think that complexity is different from technique. A song can be simple in terms of compositional complexity and still be hard to play - "The Trooper" is a good example of this. A song can be complex and yet easy to play - "Rime Of The Ancient Mariner" comes to mind.

Also, I think guitar solos should usually be separated from complexity. When people write songs, they tend to write a section and designate it as a 'solo section'. What the lead guitarist happens to put in there usually doesn't affect the complexity of the rest of the song.

So if that's what complexity is not, then what is it?

The following factors contribute to complexity:
1. The number of distinctly different guitar riffs
2. The number of variations on those basic riffs
3. Tempo changes
4. Key changes
5. Time signature changes
6. Interaction between instruments, including the vocal melody

1. The number of distinctly different guitar riffs
Judging by my 18 years experience in cover bands, the average rock song has 3 or 4 different riffs. I would start to call a song mildly complex when it contains 6 different riffs, with more riffs increasing complexity further. The riffs (or chord progressions) must be distinctly different; variations or transpositions to another key don't count here. Some 'riff counts' for Maiden songs:
  • 14 - Rime Of The Ancient Mariner
  • 12 - Sign Of The Cross
  • 10 - Paschendale
  • 9 - Infinite Dreams, Alexander The Great
  • 8 - Phantom Of The Opera, The Number Of The Beast
  • 7 - Hallowed Be Thy Name, Powerslave, 2 Minutes To Midnight
  • 6 - Aces High, Fear Of The Dark, Dance Of Death
  • 5 - Revelations
  • 4 - The Trooper
Please keep in mind that the above list is somewhat subjective. Something which I hear as two variations of the same riff might be heard by someone else as two completely different riffs. In particular, the songs "Fear of the Dark", "Dance of Death" and "Revelations" I hear as containing many variations on the same chord progressions instead of many different riffs.

2. The number of variations on those basic riffs
This is where Maiden gets most of their complexity. It's actually somewhat rare that they play a given riff the same way thoughout an entire song. Consider the chorus from "Fear of the Dark"; the chord progression is the same each time, but there are three different variations played through the course of the song. I personally think that variations on a riff are a bigger part of complexity than the number of basic riffs because it takes more finesse on the musician's part to bring across the subtle differences between variations.

3. Tempo changes
There are three levels of complexity for tempo changes. The simplest is a rhythmic modulation, where a previous note length changes to a new value while the underlying pulse remains the same. A good example is the beginning of the guitar solo section in "Hallowed Be Thy Name": the song moves to double-time, which means that one beat from the previous sections becomes two beats in the guitar solos while the tempo of those pulses remains the same.
The second type of tempo change happens when the band stops playing, and one musician starts up at a new tempo; the rest of the band takes their cue from this one player. Examples:
  • Phantom Of The Opera: from the slow guitar solo to the fast triplet section (Steve sets the new tempo)
  • Iron Maiden: from the second chorus to the middle section (Dave sets the new tempo)
  • 22 Acacia Avenue: from the fast portion of the intro back to the slower part (Adrian sets the new tempo)
  • Rime Of The Ancient Mariner: from the first major song section to the second (Bruce sets the tempo with the line "There, goes the Mariner")
The most difficult type of tempo change is one where the whole band changes gear as one unit without any specific cue for what the new tempo is. This type of change requires a great deal of rehearsal to execute correctly. Examples:
  • Phantom Of The Opera: "Keep your distance" section to the first guitar solo
  • Alexander The Great: The intro to the verse riff (where the drums enter, aside from the intro rolls on the snare)
  • The Clairvoyant: The verse to the chorus
  • Fear Of The Dark: every tempo change in the song, e.g. the fast chorus to the slower chorus
  • Sign Of The Cross: The guitar solo section to the guitar melody section which follows it
  • Ghost Of The Navigator: The verse to the prechorus
The more tempo changes there are in a song, the more complex it is. The first two types of changes I listed above are fairly easy to play, but the third type (the whole band changing at once) is a special case which really makes the song much harder to play.

4. Key changes
While key changes make the song more interesting to listen to, they really aren't that hard for musicians to play. The only times that they present difficulty is when the key changes during a guitar solo, and the soloist has to adjust his thinking from one scale to another. This isn't too common in Maiden; in most cases, a key change during a guitar solo is accompanied by a change in the soloing player. An example is "Aces High": Dave's solo is in A minor, but the key of the song changes to B minor when Adrian takes over. Nonetheless, key changes do increase complexity somewhat - playing in 2 different keys is more complex than playing in just one, even if the difference is slight. Most Maiden songs have 2 to 4 key changes, but a few have substantially more:
  • Aces High - 13 key changes
  • Infinite Dreams - 12 key changes
  • Alexander The Great - 8 key changes
  • Powerslave - 7 key changes
5. Time signature changes
This is the element of complexity which is most glaringly obvious to listeners. I've known many musicians who think that the number of time sig changes is the primary indicator of complexity. I disagree because there are plenty of complex songs without a single time sig change (such as "Powerslave", "Ghost Of The Navigator" or "Paschendale"). But it's true that time sig changes can throw a musician for a loop if the musician isn't paying attention.

Like tempo changes, there are three basic types. The easiest is a single change to a new meter, such as from 4/4 (2 or 4 division to the beat, 4 beats per measure) to 12/8 (3 divisions to the beat, 4 beats per measure). An example of this change is the beginning of the second major section in "Rime" ("There, goes the Mariner..."). This is the simplest type of change because once you get through it, there's no more changes to deal with.

The next most complex type is the insertion of a single 'odd-time' measure into a section with an otherwise constant time signature. Two good examples are the verse of "The Unbeliever", which has a few measures of 9/8 in a 4/4 section (the odd measures have an extra half-beat) or the end of the guitar solo section in "Caught Somewhere In Time" which has a measure of 2/4 (a 2-beat measure) just before the recap of the intro lick.

The most complex time sig changes are sections where changes occur on almost every measure. One particular section from "Sign of the Cross" has the following changes: 4/4, 5/8, 4/4 (2 bars), 2/4, 5/8, 4/4 (2 bars), 5/8 and so on. The extra half-beats (in the 5/8 measures) mean that the musicians have to be on their toes to get through this part without a mistake.

6. Interaction between instruments, including the vocal melody
This final element of complexity is largely a difficulty of the songwriting process. Once the song is written and arranged, the players can execute their parts without too much attention being paid to the contrapuntal subtleties. Some of Maiden's best songs have complicated interactions between Steve's bass and the guitar parts, such as the slow guitar solo just after the second chorus of "Powerslave". Adding a vocal into the mix complicates matters further, as in the verses from "Revelations" where you can hear a vocal melody, a bass melody and a guitar chord progression all at once. It takes a good amount of brain power to write music like this!

Overall, complexity isn't something that can be quantified precisely, but songs which have several of the elements mentioned above are more complex than songs like "Flight Of Icarus" or "New Frontier" that are fairly simple to play. I should emphasize that 'complex' doesn't mean 'good song' by itself. Some simple songs like "Wasted Years" or "Futureal" are among my favorites. But as a musician, I love hearing complex compositions. One of the reasons that Maiden is my favorite band is because most of their songs are at least moderately complex. Even a song like "No More Lies", which is simple by Maiden standards, is a lot more complex than an average pop song.

After having spent a lot of time looking at Maiden songs from this perspective, I think that the most complex Maiden songs are as follows (not necessarily in any kind of order):
  • Sign Of The Cross
  • Alexander The Great
  • Dance Of Death
  • Rime Of The Ancient Mariner
  • The Nomad
  • To Tame A Land
Finally, it's worth noting that most complex Maiden songs tend to be fairly long. While song length is related to complexity, it's possible to write long songs that are simple ("The Angel And The Gambler") or short songs that are complex ("Wrathchild"). A long song gives more opportunity for complexity, but taking advantage of that is up to the songwriter.
 
Wow, SMX. Just bloody wow. I don't know enough about music to say otherwise...but it's an entertaining read.

Two gold stars for reaching LooseCannon length!
 
Wow, SinisterMinisterX, awesome job...
I tend to like more complex songs, but if a simple song has a blow-away-type, great riff or tune, then it is just as good as the comlex ones (think of Flight of Icarus or Enter Sandman [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--] )
 
Bravo SMX that was a very good analysis of the different maiden songs with thier complexity.

I agree with the longer the songs the room for "experiment" e.g Nomad where the mid section breaks in. Which is a classic, where one guitar is sticking to a basic rhythm with bass, then doubled over by a single not picking guitar and after a couple of times you have the third guitar that enters and then it builds to the little melody line which to this very dayt blows me away very easy to play but it sounds extremely complex. Many other songs even in thier short songs they have variations Ganglands, Prowler same riffs but in a different scales.

I could only name a couple of other groups that do this but they have to have long epics where they cannot perfect it as Maiden with tempo changes riff variations with the same progression, bands like Opeth, Metallica in thier early days, and also Dream Theatre even though they are brilliant musucians they still cannot perfect it as Maiden.

But back to SMX that was refreshing and brilliant observation. Any metal or a musician in general should be inspired by these guys and look into how a song that is not at all complex to play but sounds so diverse that you think you could never play it but when playing not realizing how easy it is.

Well done SMX
 
I'm speachless.... [!--emo&:bow:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/bowdown.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'bowdown.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
As far as the Opeth comment goes.... I disagree, Opeth's music is unparalled, and I do Agree Dream Theater is very good, but maiden is better. Metallica focused too much on complexity, you can see that in their first four albums culmitanting in ...and justice for all. But because they drank too much and they basically went all out on that album, they couldn't do it anymore.
 
more like Metallica could never do another ..and justice for All.. complete master piece of speed metal and complexity....

Opeth - i never used to rate them much at all but recently a friend dragged me to thier concert when they played here in Sydney Australia, were very good blew me away then i focused on thier music very well thought..

Another I forget to mention was Coroner they have short songs but overall listen to thier music they should blow you away on complexity.. not in the same vein as Maiden..
 
You could write a textbook on Iron Maiden appreciation, SinisterMinisterX. At first I had my doubts that such a lengthy and systematic definition of song complexity could make engaging reading... but it was. Please accept this duckie as a token of my appreciation. [!--emo&:duckie:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/duckie.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'duckie.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

Still, being who I am, I would like to quibble briefly if I may. When you say:
[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]First of all, I think that complexity is different from technique. A song can be simple in terms of compositional complexity and still be hard to play - "The Trooper" is a good example of this. A song can be complex and yet easy to play - "Rime Of The Ancient Mariner" comes to mind.[/quote]
...I agree with you completely that technique (in terms of difficulty for the musician to play it) is separate from compositional complexity. However, I do think that riffs have an inherent complexity -- not necessarily related to difficulty for the player -- which needs to be factored into the equation. And I think I'd characterize the complexity of a riff in two ways: intricacy and novelty.

For example, I see that you have both Nomad and Rime in the list of "most complex" songs. But as I hear these songs, Rime is far more complex than Nomad, because of the complexity level of the individual riffs involved. For example, take the main verse riffs from each song. The verse riff for Nomad consists of a series of sustained power chords in a short, repeating, and rhythmically simple pattern. It basically breaks down to an alternating three chord sequence, with the third chord being changed every other time through the sequence. Sort of like this:
Chord 1............ Chord 2, Chord 3a, Chord 1............ Chord 2, Chord 3b, etc.

The verse riff for Rime, by contrast, consists of a much longer and more intricate pattern (without having more chords). I can't think of an economical way to describe it here, but you all know the riff. Basically, one pass through the riff carries us through 6 lines of lyrics:
[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Hear the rime of the ancient mariner
See his eye as he stops one of three
Mesmerises one of the wedding guests
Stay here and listen to the nightmares of the sea.

And the music plays on, as the bride passes by
Caught by his spell and the mariner tells his tale.[/quote]
The chords of this riff are the standard E-C-D stuff that is Maiden's trademark, complete with the galloping pattern. But the overall rhythmic arrangement is novel... it's almost like a telescope gradually opening up. We stay on E for a while, then go through a quick succession of C to D to E, then go back to C for a longer bit, then D for a longer bit, then finally return to E again.

This kind of intricacy and ingenuity stretches all through Rime. The last riff before the atmospheric central section is very unusual and rich, as is the bass only section following that central section (the "the curse it lives on in their eyes" section). By contrast, most of the riffs in Nomad are comparatively quite routine. Nomad's extended instrumental section is the one noteworthy exception, but even it is built of fairly simple pieces layered on top of one another, without any change in tempo or chord progression to shake things up...

My point isn't to judge the quality of these two songs, but just to illustrate that a big chunk of what makes songs "simpler" or "more complex," at least to my ear, is the intricacy and depth of the individual riffs themselves.

Cheers. [!--emo&:chug:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/beerchug.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'beerchug.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
[!--QuoteBegin-zgodt+May 6 2004, 02:10 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(zgodt @ May 6 2004, 02:10 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] However, I do think that riffs have an inherent complexity -- not necessarily related to difficulty for the player -- which needs to be factored into the equation. [/quote]
First off, thanks to all of you for the many kind words!

zgodt, I agree with you about some riffs being inherently more intricate than others. The way I see it, there are three different levels of inticacy which can be combined in different ways:
  • Rhythmic intricacies - this is the type of thing you're talking about with "Rime". Simple chord changes and all the good stuff is in the rhythms used.
  • Melodic intricacies - Melodies (whether sung or played on guitar) can be simple with long notes (e.g. "The Ides Of March"), or twist all over themselves with short notes (e.g. "Back In The Village")
  • Arrangement-related intricacies - this has become a bigger part of Maiden's arsenal since H came back; now a chord is often played 2 or 3 different ways at the same time by the various guitars. A good example is "Dance Of Death", where some guitars play power chords, others play open chords etc.
During the past week or so, I've been trying to come up with a formula or method of analyzing Maiden's songs to determine which is the most complex. Not surprisingly, all attempts at quantifying the songs in this way have failed to some degree. I have a couple of hours available right now, so I'm going to put the finishing touches on this work and post it shortly.
 
Well, so far I've analyzed about one fifth of Maiden's songs. I'm working through them alphabetically, and I've gone through "2 AM" up to "Don't Look To The Eyes Of A Stranger".

The things I'm counting are the same things I outlined in the first post - number of basic riffs, number of variations on those riffs, tempo changes, key changes and time signature changes. I put all those numbers into a formula and get a final number out. I'll save the raw details for later, but here's the interesting stuff so far:

1. Maiden used a wider variety of different riffs in their pre-Blaze days. They also had more key changes and time signature changes in their songs. Since the X Factor album, they've relied more on creating different variations of a few basic riffs for each song. For instance:
  • "Alexander The Great" has 12 different riffs (more than I thought it was in my first post) but only one or two variations on each. "Dance Of Death" only has 4 basic riffs (less than I originally thought), but 5 or more variations on each (including 12 different versions of the opening riff!)
  • "AtG" has 10 key changes and 11 time signature changes, but "DoD" has only 2 of each.
2. The formula I'm using gives most Maiden songs a value between 10 and 15. So far, I've only found 3 songs which are complex enough to have a value over 20: "Alexander The Great", "Dance Of Death" and (surprisingly) "Don't Look To The Eyes Of A Stranger". Of course these values are dubious, because it's impossible to quantify music, but they're useful for some rough comparisons.

It may take me a week to finish this project, but I'll keep posting info here as I get it.
 
Wow ! That was pretty good ! However, I came to this part...

[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]4. Key changes
While key changes make the song more interesting to listen to, they really aren't that hard for musicians to play. The only times that they present difficulty is when the key changes during a guitar solo, and the soloist has to adjust his thinking from one scale to another. This isn't too common in Maiden; in most cases, a key change during a guitar solo is accompanied by a change in the soloing player. An example is "Aces High": Dave's solo is in A minor, but the key of the song changes to B minor when Adrian takes over. Nonetheless, key changes do increase complexity somewhat - playing in 2 different keys is more complex than playing in just one, even if the difference is slight. Most Maiden songs have 2 to 4 key changes, but a few have substantially more:
Aces High - 13 key changes
Infinite Dreams - 12 key changes
Alexander The Great - 8 key changes
Powerslave - 7 key changes[/quote]

I am not a musician, however I understood what you wanted to say in the case of Aces High´s solos. But as for the rest I don´t realize where key changes can add complexity in songs, when not played on guitar solos. If you could rewrite this part for a not musician understand I would be grateful !
 
Key-related issues aren't something that's very obvious to the ear. Most people hear them at a subconscious level. The whole idea behind a key is that there is one chord, called the tonic, which is a 'home chord'. When you hear this chord (typically at the beginning and/or end of a chord progression) you get the feeling that the song has returned to its harmonic home.

Here's a simple example from "Run To The Hills". Think of the melody used for the opening lyrics. At the first word ('white'), there is no harmonic tension. By the the third word ('came'), you can hear that the chord has moved away from home, and some harmonic tension has been created. You get back to the home chord at the sixth word ('sea'). The melody moves away from this home base again, and returns to home again at the end of the word 'misery'.

A key change means that the pitch of this 'home chord' has changed or that the song has changed from major to minor (or vice versa). This is hard to hear sometimes, but there are a few easy examples to point out. Think of the transition from verse to prechorus in "Die With Your Boots On". At the end of the first verse ('in the hope that one appears') we are at the home chord: G major. Then a key change happens: at the words 'No point asking...' you hear a shift in the chord being played. The key has changed from G major to G minor. The new chord you hear at that point (B-flat major) fits in the new key, but not the old. A few lines later the key changes again: the chorus of "Die With Your Boots On" is in E minor.

Key changes provide an additional level of melodic interest. They are not necessary to create good songs - for example, "Flight Of Icarus" has no key changes. However, most Maiden songs contain at least a few. Like I said above, key changes tend to be heard at a level below your conscious appreciation of the song, so non-musicians may not be 100% aware that they're happening ... but they are, and they do have some level of impact.

I hope that helps, MigDaimon. Please let me know if there's anything that is still unclear about all this.
 
Well, that was a very good help. When I get home I will relisten the songs you mentioned trying to keep this new look.

However you mentioned something really interesting...

[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Key-related issues aren't something that's very obvious to the ear. Most people hear them at a subconscious level.[/quote]

I think that this is the bloody truth. Mainly for non musicians like me ! I mean, most of the times I don´t listen to Maiden, I FEEL IT. I can feel all the complexity of the songs but I can´t translate it to words. I feel the songs are complex, and I can even hear some glimpse of that here and there, maybe this is the little thing that make many of us love Maiden the way we do. But I can´t get to the whole thing

Do you have any sugestion of how non musicians can try to translate their feelings into spoken words. It should be easier for you, as a musician to do such a thing. Whenever I try to do this I can only get screams of adrenaline and some headbangs. But I feel that there is something deepe tha just that. But I can get into that with words. Its kinda funny this situation, you love a song (for example, Dream of Mirrors) but you just can´t know why !!! [!--emo&:blush:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/blush.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'blush.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

If you can help me and if I´m not being such a pain in the ass, I would be grateful again.
 
Very nice reading!

Now I start to wonder:

What do you find complex Maiden guitar solos?
Who is the most complex (or complete) Maiden guitar player?
 
[!--QuoteBegin-SinisterMinisterX+Apr 26 2004, 06:49 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ Apr 26 2004, 06:49 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] [*]Sign Of The Cross
[*]Alexander The Great
[*]Dance Of Death
[*]Rime Of The Ancient Mariner
[*]The Nomad
[*]To Tame A Land

[/quote]
Good, only I wouldn't say The Nomad is a very complex song because some guitar riffs are too repetitive to call the song very complex. Especially the part with the piano. Of course there are many other reasons to call a song complex, but "repetetiveness" is also important to take into account.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-SinisterMinisterX+Apr 26 2004, 06:49 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ Apr 26 2004, 06:49 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] [*]Rime Of The Ancient Mariner: from the first major song section to the second (Bruce sets the tempo with the line "There, goes the Mariner")
[/quote]
I have the idea that the whole band changes the tempo at this point (as a whole unit). Doesn't he sing here, on the same moment together the band?

He says "There" together with the rest. Correct me if I am wrong. [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

You could also say that the drummer sets the tempo, together with the other musicians.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Forostar+May 25 2004, 02:36 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Forostar @ May 25 2004, 02:36 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] I have the idea that the whole band changes the tempo at this point (as a whole unit). Doesn't he sing here, on the same moment together the band?

He says "There" together with the rest. Correct me if I am wrong. [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

You could also say that the drummer sets the tempo, together with the other musicians. [/quote]
The whole band plays a chord on beat 1, where Bruce sings 'There'. But then the bands rests while Bruce sings 'goes the Mariner'. It's that phrase which sets the new tempo.

About the Nomad: the same basic riff is repeated with many different variations. I think this is a complex song because of the arrangement, not just the number of basic riffs. YMMV.

I think that my personal standards for judging complexity of a song fall apart when applied to guitar solos. In my opinion, a good solo has an emotional impact that can't be put into words or explained by any type of musical analysis. As far as the idea of one guitarist being the most "complete", I also think that question is unfair. All three guitarists have a unique style and different skills which can't be compared.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-MigDaimon+May 25 2004, 01:05 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(MigDaimon @ May 25 2004, 01:05 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] Do you have any sugestion of how non musicians can try to translate their feelings into spoken words. [/quote]
There's only so much that the technical language of music can explain. A musician can describe in technical terms what's happening at a certain point in a song. Sometimes that may help explain the emotional impact of a song. But in terms of explaining, for example, why you love "Dream Of Mirrors" so much - that's much harder to do, and unfortunately technical terms can't help much.

The technical language surrounding any form of art generally only covers the most superficial aspects of that art. It was developed mostly so that new students could learn the fundamentals of an art form, or so that artists could communicate in depth about their work. But the real soul of art - the creativity and originality - is something we have no easy words for.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-SinisterMinisterX+May 26 2004, 03:02 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ May 26 2004, 03:02 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] I also think that question is unfair. [/quote]
Unfair? Isn't this a bit exagerated?

I was curious and since I did all the solo info on the Commentary I am very interested in peoples opinions on the solos. Why can solos not be complex?

Let me ask it in a different way. Who is your favorite player, or who plays the style you like most?
 
My bad, Forostar; I think I didn't express myself clearly, so I'll try again...

I'm not saying that solos can't be complex. What I meant is that it's an issue I've never really considered. My ideas of complexity relate to the whole song, and trying to use the same standards for judging a solo doesn't make sense. Perhaps I've never thought about the solos much because I'm a bassist, so I don't solo very often myself!

Personally, my favorite soloist is Dave. However, I must admit that I liked H better for many years, and my preference only changed a couple of years ago.

The reason I think it is "unfair" to compare Dave, H and Janick is because their styles are so different. For example, I think two of Janick's best solos are Paschendale and Fear of the Dark. But if I heard H playing those same solos, I'd be disappointed because H has a different style. A solo that is great for one guy isn't necessarily great for the other, in my opinion.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-SinisterMinisterX+May 27 2004, 04:56 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ May 27 2004, 04:56 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] The reason I think it is "unfair" to compare Dave, H and Janick is because their styles are so different. [/quote]
I know what you mean, but still, styles can be compared, even if you like each style as much as the other [!--emo&;)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'wink.gif\' /][!--endemo--]


Off topic: -last time, I hope ;-)
Are you disappointed that Janick has taken over Adrian's "Hallowed Be Thy Name" solo (live)?

If I remember correctly Dave played 13 solos, Janick 10 and Adrian 7 solos on the Rock in Rio concert, so I never understood why Janick had to do the one in "Hallowed..."
 
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