Bruce's voice straining

chaosapiant

chaosapiant

Ancient Marinade
While listening to the new album, I noticed there are a lot of notes that even Blaze could hit that Bruce sounds strained on.  Yet, at the same time (in the same song often) he kicks it up an octave higher with no trouble whatsoever.  I'm curious as to what causes this.  My hypothesis is that he actually doesn't strain his voice at all, but the texture of his voice simply sounds that way.  I'm not a professional singer though, so I don't know how this stuff works.
 
Bruce isn't a trained singer, remember, so....yeah. He probably does just sing differently in different octaves.
 
The voice is split up mainly into three different ranges: Chest, head and falsetto voice. There is a gap inbetween each of these and the transition is often audible (although Halford could back in the day go from a very high note to a low without me barely able to recognize the points of transition. The basic technique there is to intertwine the register and use falsetto register* before the end of the head register for instance)  What will sound strained in chest will not do so in head etc and it has also a lot to do with how you use your jaw to resonate and how you pronounce the words (which is partly why he sounds strained on
Mother of Mercy
. To illustrate: Think of the word "me". If you pronounce it "miiiiiiiii" and you're high up in a register it will sound very strained yet if you pronounce it "meeeeeeyyyy" in the same register and and pitch it will not.


<--- No singer.

* I differ between falsetto technique and falsetto range (not saying I'm using the correct terminology at all here) as you can use other techniques (i.e. belting) to reach the same pitch as a falsetto without it sounding like a falsetto).
 
I understand the whole head/chest thing.  But if i'm not mistaken, Bruce sings everything chest full on.  As far as albums go, I don't think he's done falsetto since Powerslave.  That's what makes his voice so unique, is his higher register is all chest and more powerful because of it.
 
chaosapiant said:
I understand the whole head/chest thing.  But if i'm not mistaken, Bruce sings everything chest full on.
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No he does not. Nobody can sing high and only use chest voice. What you often do is however to "sing from the guts" but that's not the same as using chest voice. It's just you using your gut muscles to control the voice. The Talisman, El Dorado, Mother of Mercy etc, their high notes are all head voice. You can't reach those in chest. Anatomically impossible.

You can however reinforce your voice with the gut muscles. That's very common.

Oh and about the falsetto, when Bruce screams during wratchchild and NoTB nowadays, it's all distorted falsetto.
 
chaosapiant said:
Wow....I don't understand anything about singing.   :bigsmile:
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I know basic stuff and I guess I'm not always right about those either. I just research these things because I want to know what's going on.
 
i wonder how bruce would sound if he took vocal lessons David Lee Roth (who isn't that great) took vocal lessons after leaving Van Halen and he improved alot on Eat em and Smile. If Bruce was to take lessons he could sound better than ever.
 
I find it intensely interesting, perhaps because I have no musical talent or knowledge to speak of.  I've just never heard another vocalist like Dickinson.  Tate and Halford also have excellent range, but their higher registers sound very thin to me, where as Bruce doesn't go quite as high, but has a ridiculous amount of force.  
 
chaosapiant said:
I find it intensely interesting, perhaps because I have no musical talent or knowledge to speak of.  I've just never heard another vocalist like Dickinson.  Tate and Halford also have excellent range, but their higher registers sound very thin to me, where as Bruce doesn't go quite as high, but has a ridiculous amount of force.  
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That's at least partly because they don't use the same technique. Halford's painkiller voice is according to Ralph Scheepers some form of belting where you in this case compress the air in your throat to force a wailing, knife edge sharp scream. Halford's 70's high notes are similar to Tate's and they are not falsetto because they resonate totally different than that. They might be in what I call (probably wrong terminology) falsetto register although they do not use that technique.

Bruce stays in head voice I think, although he uses his jaw etc to make it resonate differently. He sometimes uses falsetto though like in Aces high etc.
 
If Bruce had voice training, he'd have blown away every other singer. Ever. Period. He's a freak of nature, and that's why he sounds the way he does. Normal people can't sound like Bruce Dickinson. Even most exceptionally talented people can't sound like Bruce Dickinson.
 
chaosapiant said:
I understand the whole head/chest thing.  But if i'm not mistaken, Bruce sings everything chest full on.
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To clarify: I think what you mean is Bruce sings "full voice". I'm not quite sure what full voice means but it is a correct term and I know for a fact that it excludes falsetto, which is when you force the larynx so high up your throat that it barely vibrates - That's what causes your voice to sound, the larynx and its insides to vibrate. Falsetto means "false voice" and it's not counted as a register in Opera - Opera singers have a falsetto voice, everybody does (I recall listening to a singer tutor talking about a famous tenor who said he has no falsetto range. He said sure you do, you just go in and out of it without noticing it), although they do not use it and they reach very high notes in the same pitch but different techniques - So in full voice, falsetto register but not falsetto technique.


LooseCannon said:
If Bruce had voice training, he'd have blown away every other singer. Ever. Period. He's a freak of nature, and that's why he sounds the way he does. Normal people can't sound like Bruce Dickinson. Even most exceptionally talented people can't sound like Bruce Dickinson.
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Bruce is indeed incredible. Might I also point out that Dio never had any training either, and Halford and Ripper only sang in a choir in school - The story of when Halford sang for the first time is pretty entertaining - I'll post it soon.

So. Halford went to school in Birmingham and was at this time around 9 years old. He had never sung before when the school's music teacher decided whe was goign to put a choir together. She had every kid in school audition for her. She sat in a classroom with a piano and each student had to come up to her and sing while she played the piano. When it was Halford's turn, he didn't have a clue what to do. He just opened his mouth and started to sing, When he finished he noticed how the teacher stared blankly at him and the classroom burst into applauds. He didn't understand what was going on but he knew it felt very gratifying, to have everybody cheering for him. The teacher grabbed his arm and said, come with me. She took him to another classroom and said to one of her colleagues "You've got to listen this! I've never heard anything like it in my entire life". So Halford got to sing again, although this time completely a capella with the same result this time too, cheering classroom and baffled teachers. he joined the choir and then sang at every Christmas show etc and that was the start of his singing career. 
 
LooseCannon said:
If Bruce had voice training, he'd have blown away every other singer. Ever. Period. He's a freak of nature, and that's why he sounds the way he does. Normal people can't sound like Bruce Dickinson. Even most exceptionally talented people can't sound like Bruce Dickinson.
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That's close to an Adrian Smith Statement :p

chaosapiant said:
I find it intensely interesting, perhaps because I have no musical talent or knowledge to speak of.  I've just never heard another vocalist like Dickinson.  Tate and Halford also have excellent range, but their higher registers sound very thin to me, where as Bruce doesn't go quite as high, but has a ridiculous amount of force. 
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I am not going to waste an opportunity to plug my favorite vocalist: Michael Kiske! What he did in the Keeper 1&2 albums for Helloween is EPIC. Shame there was in fighting and he didn't do much in the Metal world after that, cause he had pipes man.

Mosh said:
i wonder how bruce would sound if he took vocal lessons David Lee Roth (who isn't that great) took vocal lessons after leaving Van Halen and he improved alot on Eat em and Smile. If Bruce was to take lessons he could sound better than ever.
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He did something. I've mentioned this in some other threads, but I actually find his voice on Powerslave almost unbearable, but his work since the reunion is AMAZING. I doubt it's just his voice maturing, he's been working on it as well, much better control and resonance IMO.
 
Michael Kiske is an astounding vocalist.  I remember back in 1993 it was rumored that he would be replacing Dickinson, and I was truly excited.  Not just his range, but his tone is totally unique.  He's the reason I can't listen to modern Helloween.  Deris has a great range, but doesn't have quite the same awesome tone that Kiske does.  Great plug!
 
I love Kiske, but his tone isn't all that unique.

And Bruce is much better than he was twenty-five years ago. My only gripe now is that his screams are so throaty, but he doesn't do them all that often anyway.

This is why Bruce owns every life form.
 
I used to have that boot. It was one of my favourites. I love AOB.

My biggest problem with Bruce doing Maiden stuff solo was the drumming, always.
I used to have this killer boot...I think I got it from Freaky or Per, it was from a concert in Europe, and Bruce did the intro to BYDTTS with a sing along, except then he fucking killed everyone with a huge scream. It was awesome.
 
Again, I can't comment on the new record just yet, but I absolutely loved his singing on AMOLAD.  What many heard as straining I heard as impassioned performances that were probably used instead of perfect takes because they added so much to the song.  Like Lord of Light for example.
 
Revelations was also imperfect, which actually made it perfect. That third verse is the best vocal moment in history (DON'T DISPUTE THIS!).
 
Donner said:
Again, I can't comment on the new record just yet, but I absolutely loved his singing on AMOLAD.  What many heard as straining I heard as impassioned performances that were probably used instead of perfect takes because they added so much to the song.   Like Lord of Light for example.
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Straining isn't a matter of point of view but it's a fact, whether you like it or not just like Usain Bolt ran as fast as he could during laps in the Olympics. Yes, Bruce recorded all his vocals in 7 hours and they sounded very good and it's pretty much all live. That still doesn't take away from the fact that he did strain his voice at number of times. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing, it just means he strained his voice just like Bolt stretches his abilities to the max. Period.
 
Bruce sounds good to me.  However, if you want to hear a voice that's screwed go see KISS.  Paul could hardly talk let alone sing!
 
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