And yet, everybody buys it (iHate)

Perun

His name struck fear into hearts of men
Staff member
Now people, listen. I'm not a paranoid maniac. I'm not going to sit down on my porch with a shotgun anytime soon, and I'm not wearing a tinfoil hat. I'm not even going to vote for the Pirate Party, not now nor any time I can imagine. I think Obama is American-born and I don't think 9/11 was an inside job. I don't think there is a hidden world government that is breeding mutant lizard people at Denver airport, I don't think there is a secret society of Illuminati who meet at Bilderberg and I know the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are a forgery.

What is really happening in the world is not a secret oligarchy trying to take over our lives and trying to enslave us, but with some things you can imagine how people come to believe in this crap. Reality is much less spectacular but somehow, much more disturbing.

Does anybody remember how Bill Gates used to be compared to Hitler and people thought he was evil incarnate? You know, like this:

HitlerBillGates.jpg



And then people looked for alternatives, and some nerds built together Linux which is a great invention, but unfortunately not for people who use computers only casually. So there was this other guy, Steve Jobs and his Apple, this guy who was reputed to be completely free of ulterior motives and offered people a working computer that you didn't have to pledge allegiance to and buy expensive software for to use properly.

Well, that was back in 1995, perhaps.

At some point, Apple moved beyond computers and started developing, how shall I say, surveillance technology.

Anybody remember this ad? Well, it's coming back at them:

iPhone keeps record of everywhere you go
Privacy fears raised as researchers reveal file on iPhone that stores location coordinates and timestamps of owner's movements

(Link to an article on Guardian.co.uk)

A particularly disturbing passage is towards the end of the rather lengthy article:

Apple can legitimately claim that it has permission to collect the data: near the end of the 15,200-word terms and conditions for its iTunes program, used to synchronise with iPhones, iPods and iPads, is an 86-word paragraph about "location-based services".

I've been saying this for a bit more than two years now: Everything people hated Microsoft for is being done by Apple now, and everything people feared Microsoft would be doing is being done by Apple now, yet everybody cheers for Apple and Steve Jobs, and everybody buys this iShit and let it take over their lives, and now even let it threaten their privacy and freedom. This is crazy! Please, iLovers, I know there are some among you here, please justify this to me. Please tell me why, if you consider these news, you are still going to buy Apple products. I'm holding my breath.
 
I hate mobile phones with touch screens, so that means I hate iPhone and iPad too. I had iPod Shuffle for a year (got it for my birthday), until the power cable went off, and when I tried to buy a new one, I realised that the cable alone costs more than player itself, so I haven't used it since then. Creative and Sony MP3 players rule! And I never used Mac. So I'm not iNightProwler and I'm not going to buy anything i/Apple :)
 
Perun said:
and everybody buys this iShit and let it take over their lives,

Not me. I admit that I am often on internet but the way people use these gadgets in e.g. public transport (or even at the office) is getting ridiculous.

It happens more than often that I see a group of students enter a train, talking while going to their seat.
As soon as their asses hit the seats, they grab their iPhone/Blackberry/you name it tool like robots and don't talk to each other anymore. They forget about the outside world. And if they do say something, then they still keep their eyes on their little screens. It feels like they are less interested in real life social contacts than in their maniacal chat behavior.

Great rant by the way. I hadn't seen this topic coming, but it's good to share the irritation (or worries) about it.
 
 
I bought a new iPod about a month ago from the Apple store...

Clerk: What's your email address?
Me: Why would you need that?
Clerk: To email your receipt.
Me: Can't you just print a receipt here like every other store in America?

He looked shocked, liked he'd never heard of such barbarism before. He had to find a manager to figure out how to sell me an iPod without collecting my email.
 
I'm not a Mac or Apple expert, but when did they decide to put a small i prior to bits of kit they sell? First time this came to my attention was not an Apple product but an IBM product. IBM re-branded the AS400 to an iSeries just over 10 years ago and after that I started to notice iStuff from Apple (the main part of my job is working on an iSeries - or Sytem i or whatever IBM have come up with). So who had first dibs on that? ;)

As for the iPhone, I can see your point Perun, but I dare say that Apple are not alone in tracking what you do or where you go or what you spend your money on - whether it be any other mobile network provider or phone manufacturer, or loyalty/credit/debit cards.
 
Albie said:
As for the iPhone, I can see your point Perun, but I dare say that Apple are not alone in tracking what you do or where you go or what you spend your money on - whether it be any other mobile network provider or phone manufacturer, or loyalty/credit/debit cards.

They are definitely not the only ones. That's why I'm not going to get a smart phone and have been using the same cell phone for the last eight years or so. My problem is really more that people really do buy this and just don't seem to care, while at the same time you keep hearing about data privacy and privacy protection and all that, at least in Germany.
 
It is more than possible to enjoy Apple devices without being an "iSlave" as it has been noted.  For instance, I enjoy several Apple products. I use a Mac at work; I use a iPod Nano for my portable music collection, and an oldschool iPod Touch for portable networking. I would use a Mac at home for certain things if I could afford it; indeed, I will probably have once once I clear out the junk closet here at work.

Simply put, these sorts of statistics are gathered by every single company that does things in the digital era. It's how they use the information that should bother you, and what bothered people previously.

A massive amount of information on the scale Apple receives it is not useful on the individual scale. I'm sure the information is only used for the sorts of things you can imagine it is used for. That being said, it is still wrong, and it reinforces my decision to avoid smartphones and the like.

Apple is the most successful company in the world. Period. They caught the Internet wave and rode it to becoming the third largest company in the world, and the largest non-oil company. They're doing something right. And one of those things is they make pretty damn good products. Some of the stuff sucks (replacement iPod cords are expensive, I have 6 right now, most of which are loot), but overall, the quality of the products is superior to what you get elsewhere.

But, luckily, you don't have to buy stuff from Apple. It's not a requirement. It's simply trendy. And trends change, as any metal fan knows.
 
I don't care what brand I get for the most part. I have an iPod Nano, because its convenient, I want to be able to listen to music when I'm out, and I find it easy to scroll between artists and stuff. I have a Microsoft computer.
 
To add a slightly different angle to this, April 21st 2011 came and went without the Rise of the Machines as predicted in Terminator/Sarah Connor Chronicles. However, to take a James Cameron quote:

James Cameron said:
"And the machines taking over? With everybody going through their lives bent over their Blackberrys all day long, you could even argue the machines have already won."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13159616
 
LooseCannon said:
Apple is the most successful company in the world. Period.

Just a side discussion: I don't know what the exact criteria are for "most succesful" but it's interesting to compare these two companies.

Apple
Revenue  US$ 65.23 billion (FY 2010)[2]
Operating income  US$ 18.39 billion (FY 2010)[2]
Profit  US$ 14.01 billion (FY 2010)[2]
Total assets  US$ 75.18 billion (FY 2010)[2]
Total equity  US$ 47.79 billion (FY 2010)[2]
Employees 49,400 (2010)[2]

Google
Revenue  US$ 29.321 billion (2010)[3]
Operating income  US$ 10.381 billion (2010)[3]
Profit  US$ 8.505 billion (2010)[3]
Total assets  US$ 57.851 billion (2010)[3]
Total equity  US$ 46.241 billion (2010)[3]
Employees 26,316 (march 31, 2011)[3]

Source wiki
 
Also as a side note, I believe that every cell phone has GPS built into it.  That is how the 911 service on your phone works.  Now, you can turn it to '911 only', but you are trackable.  Anyone that has the ability, or a court order, can track your GPS location with any phone.

I'll toss my iHat into the ring later, when I'm home.
 
People applaud Apple products because they are unbelievably user-friendly, look cool, and are even fun to use.  That's what technology should be, and Apple has been great at innovating products that meet those criteria.  I know, I know, there are a bunch of IT guys on this forum who can list all the ways Apples aren't as good, and I realize that you pay a premium for the same level of horsepower that you'd pay for a PC.  But for me, as someone who works with PCs at work and used to have a PC at home, I like the Apple stuff much better.  I don't know about Android/Google products, as I haven't tried them.  As for the GPS locator, that's pretty easy to turn off. 

And, SMX, at the Apple Store near my office, you'll be pleased to know that they offer you the option of emailing me the receipt or printing one.  By the way, I like that they have a record of me in their computer, because whenever I need help with anything they can look up what I have and any prior problems -- of which there have been blessedly few compared to my old PC. 
 
Before you people start hating on the iPhone... ALL phones record where you go. Every time it "Pings" a tower your location has been recorded in the annals of history. Nothing Special about the iPhone except the phone itself collects the data rather than your phone company and the government.

Futhermore, that is why people buy the stupid thing. they want to "tag" themselves and their friends everywhere they fucking go and take pictures and share them. If people would be THAT concerned over their privacy they'd still own a rotary phone.

what a crock of...
 
Onhell said:
Futhermore, that is why people buy the stupid thing. they want to "tag" themselves and their friends everywhere they fucking go and take pictures and share them. If people would be THAT concerned over their privacy they'd still own a rotary phone.

Do they. Or are they being told that they want it?

Before you pass me the tinfoil hat, there is something economists call "artificial demand". People never wanted to be tagged everywhere they go, and I recall a time when that was considered a scary outlook to the future. Now a sleek, shiny white piece of technology with an apple on it (or maybe something else, like a facebook or whatever) tells them it's cool and now people do it.

Apart from that, the way I see it, people who use their iMac to synchronise their files on their iPod while using their iPhone asking about the new iPad are a flock of sheep who are being told what to like instead of making up their own mind. Apple is a monster of marketing. They brought corporate identity to a perfection, and since their products are so easily identifiable by name and by look, people prefer to buy it over another product that may be cheaper, less intrusive on your privacy and perhaps even of higher technological standard.
 
Aren't you the first one to defend democracy and market liberalism, etc? Well here you go - you can't stop one huge private enterprises' influence.
Those people have a free will. They have a choice what will they use.

You can turn off GPS interface on the iPhone, and you can deactivate cellular internet connection and use it on demand. It takes exactly 2 seconds to do so.
You can jailbreak your iPhone, it's perfectly legal. Then you can control it's operating system on the low-level.

So even if you buy the thing, with some know-how and basic interest you can turn off all crap that you don't want.
Jailbreaking requires you to know: a) to push one button on iPhone, b) to connect it to computer, c) to run a program on your computer.

How many people that use iPhones know those three operations. Everyone.

That's called "american capitalism". Companies exploit people all the time. Food companies do it, drug companies do it, your telco does it, everyone that can, will. Because it's legal by law, and it generates money. And there is only one thing that matters in capitalism - money.

However, you can't buy a GMO enhanced rice and take away all the possibly harmful artificial stuff from it. Only thing you can do, is not buying it.
With Apple's product, you can still buy the damn thing and remove all their "trespassing" bullshit it. The way i see it - you can both have the cake and eat it too.

Apart from that, the way I see it, people who use their iMac to synchronise their files on their iPod while using their iPhone asking about the new iPad are a flock of sheep who are being told what to like instead of making up their own mind.

If i told you hand me over all your money, without any kind of threat whatsoever, and you do it - you're an idiot, and i'm a greedy bastard.
Capitalism enables greedy bastards to do all they wish to, and they just don't give a fuck if they are seen as bastards or not. They only care about their profits.

If Kim Jong Il ordered everyone to have a same pair of shoes and wear a same haircut, by imposing penalties if they disobey, then he's an idiot and those are poor unfortunate people. Did Steve Jobs do that? No, he did what's best of interest for his company, abiding all laws and pursuing way of life that's drawn by that awful system. System both your country and mine support and implement in a slightly more human manner, for the time being.

So you should be pissed of on your government for letting Jobs freely influence and educate your people. He only does what he can.

...even of higher technological standard

Computers, yes. Cellphones, tablets and music playes? No. They are the best out there for their purpose. I have a flagship Android phone (Samsung 9000), it's same or better on specs than iPhone 4, and still it's not as good. It's even not as good as iPhone 3GS which i also had. It has a way better screen, more memory, more raw power, operating system with better out-of-the-box functionality, but it's not intuitive and responsive as iPhone. Slides, program running, anything.

And i know why, because i know internals of these devices on the very level of hardware implementation and operating systems. Apple's iOS is simply the best in that field. iPhone had a massive R&D process, even more massive than marketing itself. The testing process was on level with Russian military hardware, for the sole purpose of making the device better and better. Everything from power consumption and interface response to network and multimedia performance.

They made a shoe that's gonna perform equally on red carpet and football lawn. And kick ass on both fields.

Collegaue got an iPad (not the new one, best model of original one) couple of weeks ago. To tell you the truth - i'm a smartphone user since smartphones didn't exist at all. Its related to my job and work that i do. I always wanted a small device that i can use as mini computer that's with me all the time. It's very handy - i'm on the sun drinking coffee with friends and i get a phone call that i need to do an urgent intervention. If it's something that would take me a few minutes to do at my workstation, i'm not going to go home, i'm going to hang up that call and proceed with work on the very phone itself. It'll take me 10 minutes there, but i'll be still drinking my coffee on the sun. But iPad - apart from specialized tasks such as mobile interactive display, for instance used for navigation mapping between crew, is simply a worthless toy. It won't get your work done, and it's not completely portable either. It doesn't fit in your pocket and weights a bit. But for entertainment - best of devices, hands down.

It's been 15 years for me on-line. From dial-in BBS systems and first graphical browsers, to being a systems engineer in an ISP. Needless to say, i know my internet, and when i took his iPad just to take a look how web pages display, i was a bit stunned. He saw my reaction, put an evil grin and said; yup, perfect format. It's like, that's the way the web was meant to be read. And he was, IM(not so)HO very right.
 
Alright, we've discussed what's handy about it. You can do things quickly.

But I am not sure if you've noticed: people are more and more constantly looking at the little screen, wherever they are.

So. What's cool about this constant watching of that little screen? There is so much more to see in this world.

This form of addiction makes people less aware of what's happening in their own environment.
 
Well, Foro, I would say that "device addition" is probably outside the scope of whether or not Apple is evil. They are, after all, not the people who started all this - that honour belongs to Research in Motion's Blackberry.
 
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