U.S.A. to turn into the "North American Union" (u.s./canada/mexico)

J

JumpInTheFire

Prowler
get informed on part of it here:

http://www.eagleforum.org/topics/NAU/

This is the jist:

This is of course more stuff you will only hear TINY news reports on, and in some cases not even at all...

the mass media, especially in America, only like to do what the government wants them to and what will bring in more viewers, such as stories like anna nicole smith and other "soap opera" stories

I have no problem with people of any color, race, ethnicity, etc
but i have a problem with people who ruin things

The North American Union will be The U.S., mexico and canada combined,
George W. Bush has continually let ILLEGAL immigrants (mexicans) come into the U.S. and not arrest those without licenses and other documentation

It is destroying America. over 3 MILLION illegals enter the U.S. each year, and nobody is putting a stop to it

Corporations and Illegals have more rights than LEGAL u.s. citizens... its ridiculous

For those you reading this who don't care or think it doesn't concern you, it does.

Liberties and freedom (the same thing) are not taken away all at once. The U.S. is slowly turning into a police-state and the freedom of speech is slowly being taken away as "free speech zones" are being implemented

You won't notice anything... until one day you wake up and realize that a liberty you do notice is gone

the sad thing is that because we as people can live happily and "unknowingly", we allow ourselves to, and because we dont HAVE to care or stand up and do something, we choose not to

so i invite you to do the opposite. do it. stand up, get mad. do something about it


We must remember that the founding fathers would have told us to NEVER trust the government. to always question and ask. that is american.

western civilization over the past 100 years has had many planned attacks to increase support for wars... The list is so long i couldn't even begin.

The british are farther along the "bad" track then we are. they have CCTV cameras installed. 4 MILLION cameras in their country.. and of course they say its for security reasons.. not that it wouldn't help with those things... but you see... thats what i was saying when i was talking about your liberties aren't taken all at once...

the London July 7, 2005 bombings were done by their own government... and it raised the british prime minister (Tony Blair)'s numbers...

When attacks happen, people are more willing to give up their liberties... and the government willingly takes advantage...

the books "1984" by George Orwell , with Big Brother and books like "Fahreinheit 451" by Ray Bradybury are the worlds were going to be living in soon... along with "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley in which society take pills and things to wash away the bad thoughts and are submissive to their governments in which they live their lives as basic slaves in which they never think for themselves or step out of line....

i could go on forever.
 
Hmm... I've heard the same argument against the EU by someone I know... he claimed that thanks to the EU, the Poles would be coming to Germany and take other people's jobs. Note that at the time in which he allegedly experienced this, Poland was not yet in the EU.

The whole point of such political alliances is to bring the weaker countries to a comparable political and economical level so there is no reason for those illegal immigrants to "come and take our [sic] jobs". The way it is now makes those illegal immigrants cross the border; rich countries like the US or Canada can help Mexico to offer their citizens a perspective in their own country so they don't need to go elsewhere.

I think I see your point*, but you're viewing things from the wrong end.

*that is, to the point where you suddenly leap to the "this is threatening our liberties" stuff... I'm not following you there anymore. That is a completely different subject.
 
Wait, wait, wait.

If Mexico becomes part of the USA, how are "illegal immigrants" still illegal?  That just doesn't make any bloody sense (considering the majority of illegal immigrants come from Mexico).  Besides, as a very politically active Canadian, I can assure you that such a proposition has never hit the floors of Parliament, and I don't believe it ever will.  We may have a Yankophile PM currently, but he is also a very proud and patriotic man who would never consider this sort of thing an option.

While I am all for creating closer economic ties with our southern neighbours, indeed, I am all for NAFTA, I realize that my country and the USA are simply not governmentally compatible.  I very much enjoy my system of government and have no interest in becoming a State of the Union.  I like my medicare and I certainly like the fact that my tuition is only $6200 compared to most US universities which are over $20,000.  I like my coloured currency.  If there was a referendum to join this (as our laws state), then I, and the overwhelming majority of Canadians, would vote "HELLS NO".  It ain't gonna happen.

And looking at the website posted, I wouldn't call it credible.  The mainstream media didn't cover this because it seems very much like a conspiracy theory.  Look at the EU - it's taken something like four decades to get them as far as they've gotten, and they have once again failed to create a constitution for themselves.  All we have is a limited free trade agreement and some defense pacts.  Nothing to see here, folks.  Move along to the next thread.
 
Yeah, go look in the original post.  "The North American Union will be Canada, the USA, and Mexico".  From what I can tell, that's what is being insinuated - that a major terrorist attack will be used to combined the three major North American nations into one government.
 
LooseCannon said:
Yeah, go look in the original post.  "The North American Union will be Canada, the USA, and Mexico".  From what I can tell, that's what is being insinuated - that a major terrorist attack will be used to combined the three major North American nations into one government.
Click to expand...

Wrong. It's supposed to be a political union like the EU. That is hardly one country and one government.
 
This "NAU" idea is obviously a conspiracy theory. If it had the slightest chance of becoming reality, it would be covered by the major media. Contrary to some people's opinion, the US media is not a spokesperson for the government (Fox "News" excepted). True, they have taken the government at their word in the past, most notably in the buildup to the Iraq war, but that trend has reversed: the media is becoming independent again.

Second, the ranting by JITF about illegal immigrants indicates, to me, that JITF is not fully knowledgable about this issue. For example, the last I heard, the total illegal population in the US is around eleven million. That population has built up over many years, so the figure of 3 million new illegals per year sounds high. If I'm wrong I'll gladly admit to being so, but I'd like to see reputable sources to disprove me. My source is this speech given by New Mexico governor Bill Richardson (second paragraph). Since he is a border state governor, I trust his figures for the moment.

Furthermore, simply arresting illegals is not the solution. The US law enforcement system doesn't have the capacity to handle 11 million more arrests. The immigrants are here, and they're not going away. Even if they were deported, most would simply come back, just as illegally as the first time. Furthermore, many of them have children born in the US, who are therefore US citizens by US law. It would be callous and cruel to arrest and deport the parents of these children.

The only solution that makes sense has two parts. First, an effort to slow the tide of immigrants (it can't be stopped, only slowed). This means beefing up the border patrol (a wall or fence is dumb idea), trying to help Mexico economically so they can retain their own people, and punishing US employers who give jobs to illegals. Second, we need a guest worker program, possibly leading to citizenship, for the illegals who are here. These people are human beings who want to be part of the US workforce; there's no reason not to let them do so, if it can be done legally.

Finally, an observation: some of the anti-immigration people I've heard are making their attacks out of racism. Some barely veil it (e.g. Pat Buchanan), while others are slightly better at politically correct speech (e.g. Tom Tancredo). These racists often use the same arguments that JITF used. Let me emphasize, I am not calling JITF a racist. But I suspect that JITF may have been unknowingly influenced by things he's heard from racists. Any argument about this issue which ignores that the illegals are human beings with lives and families, and instead treats illegals like some kind of soulless contraband, is always suspect to me.

A word of warning about Tom Tancredo (a Republican from my state, Colorado, who is a single-issue candidate for president, that issue being immigration reform). He's a known liar and creep. Living very close to his district (but thankfully not in it), I've seen him on the news more than most US citizens. I know  more about him than most US citizens, through an accident of geography. Consider this: if he's really opposed to using illegal labor, then why did he hire illegal immigrants to build his rec room in his basement in 2002? Tancredo is a racist and an opportunist. Be careful about the people who talk too much about this issue, since their motives are usually less than admirable.

Again, I want to emphasize: it is not my intent to attack JITF personally. He is a valued member of our community, who contributes more here than most others do. I'm only "attacking" this one post he made, because I think his information - or his interpretation of available facts - is faulty.

Threads like this one have the potential to descend into nastiness. Speaking as a mod now: let's keep it civil. Or else.
 
SMX was very polite in his response, I don't guarantee to do the same, but I'll try.

First of all, not even "most" of the illegals are from Mexico, they are actually from Central and South American Countries in even WORSE conditions than Mexico. Mexico is not the only country south of the border. Also, don't blame the illegals for the U.S's 'problems', because if anybody is to blame is the system itself. Illegals are just as affected as U.S citizens. The inherent exploitation of capitalism encourages business to seek people they can get more profit out of. So if they can pay an illegal 6 dollars a day instead of 6 dollars an hour they will make more profit, that is simply smart business and it keeps your prices low.

Now, how DARE you say that illegals have more rights than legal citizens? I'm a LEGAL PERMAMENT RESIDENT  and I have spent up to THREE HOURS at border patrol check points because they smelled "dope" in my car's trunk, ummm, bullshit? I think so. Even after 9/11 citizens don't get searched for nearly as long as "outsiders". Obviously you are unaware of the priviledges bestowed upon you for being born in the U.S and I advice you to be thankful rather than taking them for granted and blame others for problems you can solve yourself by protesting, voting and plain doing something about it instead of blaming people in the same boat as you.
 
First of all, i dont rant because i lack knowledge. i rant because im passionate and theres soo many facts i could provide that it drives me insane.


as for the North American Union. George Bush has pushed for it. It IS no conspiracy theory
and always labeling things as conspiracy theories trying to measly discredit them is pathetic.

Myself and others that bring about FACTS and TRUTHS don't do it because its fun to talk about or the "what ifs" we do it for liberty and to stand up against unjust times



Anyhow,
as for me talking about liberties being taken away etc,
i understand that by looking at my post without the prior knowledge that i also have and didn't explain, it can seem to be quite a leap,

however in the U.S. there are many "free speech zones" being implemented where free speech is not allowed, including outside of George W. Bush's Ranch in Texas.

i state facts,
i apologize if on my "rant" i made things seem unclear and didn't provide links to everything I say.



As for illegal immigrants, that statement is wrong

the numbers provided by the U.S. immigration services are that there are 3 million PER year that are illegal


as for them becoming "legal" if the union were to happen...thats just the thing. they are here illegaly, and erasing borders and making them legal wouldn't solve the issue

its that they are here working for less, taking from the social security system and other things, while the elite sit up there on high

I dont blame all illegals for the problems...
U.S. has many problems
but illegals are part of it. if they becamse LEGAL, and did it the right way, i would be more than happy. i dont look at race, ethnicitiy and other things. we are all human beings...
Onhell said:
SMX was very polite in his response, I don't guarantee to do the same, but I'll try.

First of all, not even "most" of the illegals are from Mexico, they are actually from Central and South American Countries in even WORSE conditions than Mexico. Mexico is not the only country south of the border. Also, don't blame the illegals for the U.S's 'problems', because if anybody is to blame is the system itself. Illegals are just as affected as U.S citizens. The inherent exploitation of capitalism encourages business to seek people they can get more profit out of. So if they can pay an illegal 6 dollars a day instead of 6 dollars an hour they will make more profit, that is simply smart business and it keeps your prices low.

Now, how DARE you say that illegals have more rights than legal citizens? I'm a LEGAL PERMAMENT RESIDENT  and I have spent up to THREE HOURS at border patrol check points because they smelled "dope" in my car's trunk, ummm, bullshit? I think so. Even after 9/11 citizens don't get searched for nearly as long as "outsiders". Obviously you are unaware of the priviledges bestowed upon you for being born in the U.S and I advice you to be thankful rather than taking them for granted and blame others for problems you can solve yourself by protesting, voting and plain doing something about it instead of blaming people in the same boat as you.
Click to expand...




Obviously what i am stating is never true in 110% of the time... its a large country

however, there are many cases, especially where i live in san diego and los angeles, where illegals are given more rights and most times, and this is DOCUMENTED, are not arrested while some legal citizen is, yet no explanation is ever given...

anyways, i dont expect to change anyones mind.
i just put down the facts
 
Ah, facts...  A wonderful word.  It immediately brings up images of evidence, truth, reality...  Yet even facts are relative.  Many conspiracy theory "documents" state "facts"...  So they say, at least.  If the listener/reader knows no other option, he/she is usually inclined to accept it as truth, as long as it sounds official or important.  One can call a lie a fact, and who can judge which one it is?  As I said, wonderful things, them facts...

As for the rest of the discussion, I'm not even going to participate.  I don't live in North America, and I am not inclined to be drawn into an argument which I am uninformed about and which does not even directly affect me.
 
facts can be relative
just like statistics

the only problem

is that when facts are used in relative terms, they are actually no longer facts
they are propoganda

i dont have anything to gain from this
i am just stating truths, facts, whatever you want to call them
 
JumpInTheFire said:
Obviously what i am stating is never true in 110% of the time... its a large country

however, there are many cases, especially where i live in san diego and los angeles, where illegals are given more rights and most times, and this is DOCUMENTED, are not arrested while some legal citizen is, yet no explanation is ever given...

anyways, i dont expect to change anyones mind.
i just put down the facts
Click to expand...

Oh ok, I see what you mean. That's because the U.S has a "catch and release" policy with illegals that are OTMs aka "Other Than Mexican." Like I said, most illegals are actually from central and south american countries. Those illegals, when caught instead of being deported are given a court date and then released and of course they don't show up. I guess you'll be glad to know that has changed and OTMs will be deported from now on.

However, illegals STILL don't have more rights than citizens, they don't now and never will.
 
I don't mean to heat up the argument, but isn't there already a trade pact thing with the US, Canada and Mexico called NAFTA? So, why is this an issue? These three countries are basically allies anyway. As for illegal immigrants  having more rights than legal immigrants I doubt that. Just because of the prefix 'il'.
 
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