Time Signatures!

Mosh

Mosh

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I'm a bit confused and google decided it doesn't want to help today. I am exploring time signatures and currently have a piece with a section that I am suspicious of it being in the wrong time. I would like to know the difference between 5/4 7/8 and 7/4 and the ways you can count them. Those are the possible signatures that would fit but I'm not sure if I'm counting them right.
Edit: Sorry if this post is confusing to read I can't think of any easier way to ask this.
 
I still have doubts on how to count compound time signatures (5/8, 6/8, 7/8), though 12/8 I understand a bit, now.
 
Jeffmetal said:
I still have doubts on how to count compound time signatures (5/8, 6/8, 7/8), though 12/8 I understand a bit, now.
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IIRC 12/8 is used for 2 measures in La Villa Strangiato.
 
I would do a quick sample of the same drum pattern done in 5/4, 7/8 and 7/4 in Reaper to help us understand it --- but I don't have the time right now.

When I have the time and no one's posted an enlightening reply yet, I'm going to do so :)
 
valacirca said:
I would do a quick sample of the same drum pattern done in 5/4, 7/8 and 7/4 in Reaper to help us understand it --- but I don't have the time right now.

When I have the time and no one's posted an enlightening reply yet, I'm going to do so :)
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i look forward to that as it would be best to know this by tomorrow.
 
The Knife Master said:
IIRC 12/8 is used for 2 measures in La Villa Strangiato.
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War Pigs intro is 12/8. I understand a bit better, now, due to this part. I never counted time on LVS, though I used to play it spot on.
 
Jeffmetal said:
War Pigs intro is 12/8. I understand a bit better, now, due to this part. I never counted time on LVS, though I used to play it spot on.
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Just checked it is 12/8. Looks like this:
Code: 
---------------0------------0------0----
-------------2------------2------2------
------------2-----------2------2--------
-----------2----------2------2---- ----
----------0---------0------0----------
---------------0------------0------0----
-------------2------------2------2------
------------2-----------2------2--------
-----------2----------2------2---- ----
----------0---------0------0------------
I'm not good at tabbing but I think you will be able to tell what section I'm talking about. It's only on measure.
 
Jeffmetal said:
I got that. Funny is that thought this one was in 4/4.
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It probably works in 4/4. it would just be 2 measures instead of one.
 
It works, but there's the correct way of counting which sometimes confuses me, like a 5/4 which should be correctly noted as 3/4+2/4 or vice versa, depending on the case. It'd be 3 measures instead of 2, on LVS (3 measures of 4 notes).
 
Jeffmetal said:
It works, but there's the correct way of counting which sometimes confuses me, like a 5/4 which should be correctly noted as 3/4+2/4 or vice versa, depending on the case. It'd be 3 measures instead of 2, on LVS (3 measures of 4 notes).
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So you do know 5/4. That's what I thought it was. Here is where I got confused, when LVS gets into the minor thing it goes to 7/4 but I can count as 5/4 and it will work. So are they equivalents?
 
The Knife Master said:
So you do know 5/4. That's what I thought it was. Here is where I got confused, when LVS gets into the minor thing it goes to 7/4 but I can count as 5/4 and it will work. So are they equivalents?
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I know 5/4, but the example I gave is random (it's not related to LVS). When it gets to the minor part (F and A), it's 7/8, but if you count as 7/4, it's correct 'cos they're equivalent (so says a friend of mine who has a degree in classical guitar). The 6/8, 7/8 has a triplet feel, but I find it hard to count.
 
The Knife Master said:
6/8 has more of a triplet feel.
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Hm... I'll really need a sample to understand that :) Any similar songs out there that are done in 3/4 and 6/8 time to illustrate the difference?
 
valacirca said:
Hm... I'll really need a sample to understand that :) Any similar songs out there that are done in 3/4 and 6/8 time to illustrate the difference?
Click to expand...
well I can only think of Jazz songs at the moment. All Blues by Miles Davis is in 6/8. The difference between 3/4 and 6/8 is that 3/4 plays straight meaning there is no swing or grove just counting  1 2 3. 6/8 first of all I forgot to mention a 6/8 measure is counted 1 2 3 1 2 3. So that is one difference. Count to 3 twice. Now the feel is that 6/8 makes more sense when counted trip-el-let trip-el-let. 3 eigth notes placed together will have a triplet sound no matter what. Hope that makes more sense.
 
Wow. This whole thread ... wow.

5/4 and 7/4 are not the same thing, any more than 5 and 7 are the same number.
7/4 and 7/8 are not the same thing, though your count will come out the same periodically.

There are as many ways to count them as there are songs using them...

5/4 usually breaks down into 3+2 (beats), which is often subdivided 3+3+2+2 (8th notes).
Examples:
Jethro Tull, "Living In The Past"
Dave Brubeck, "Take Five" (listen to the piano riff)

7/4 usually breaks down into 4+3 beats, less often 3+4.
4+3 example: Rush, "The Spirit Of Radio" has a great example after the second chorus (2:52 to 3:18). It's 3 bars of 7/8, then a bar of 8/8, then repeat.
3+4 example: Pink Floyd, "Money" main bass riff (I count it as 3-4 when I play it, at least).

7/8 is much the same, except with 8th notes. The effect is that of a 4/4 bar that skips the last 8th note.
Example: Rush, "Xanadu" - most of the song, although the descending scale riff has a 4/4 in there.

More examples:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mu ... signatures
 
Ok that makes a lot more sense. Thank you for clearing up the confusion.
 
Adrian Smith started using different time signatures in 1995, on his first Psycho Motel album.
Clip

Then he took it to Bruce Dickinson (e.g. Killing Floor) and now he has brought it to Maiden (Paschendale, Starblind).
 
Forostar said:
Adrian Smith started using different time signatures in 1995, on his first Psycho Motel album.
Clip

Then he took it to Bruce Dickinson (e.g. Killing Floor) and now he has brought it to Maiden (Paschendale, Starblind).
Click to expand...

is that first riff in 6/4?

the time changes in sign of the cross are interesting
 
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