Steve Harris: one of the greatest metal songwriters ever or a magpie?

Considering how the story follows though, IM LLC lawyers suck.
 
matic22 said:
Another song that is lyricaly underrated is FTGGOG. If only wasnt for the repetative chorus...
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I think it works as a metaphor for the method by which religion indoctrinates people. Besides, I'll accept the repetitive chorus argument when people start holding songs like Seventh Son, Fear of the Dark, and Run to the Hills accountable for the same.
 
LooseCannon said:
I think it works as a metaphor for the method by which religion indoctrinates people.
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I think this is the point - the repetition is deliberate. It represents someone trying to believe and accept something they don't really agree with, or even understand. The same goes for the misquote from the Lords Prayer in ATSS.
 
LooseCannon said:
I'll accept the repetitive chorus argument when people start holding songs like Seventh Son, Fear of the Dark, and Run to the Hills accountable for the same.
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I officially hold SSOASS and FTGGOG accountable for having overly repetitive choruses. The other songs mentioned at least use two phrases instead of one, though they are still repetitive.
 
LooseCannon said:
I think it works as a metaphor for the method by which religion indoctrinates people. Besides, I'll accept the repetitive chorus argument when people start holding songs like Seventh Son, Fear of the Dark, and Run to the Hills accountable for the same.
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Those songs do not repeat some parts as much as FTGGOG, and the repetition features melodic variety in the vocals.
 
Repetition is an integral part of the music. People are split on how many repetitions should be ok. What I have problem with is copy-paste arrangement, not repetition. In FTGGOG Bruce is singing one of the repeating guitar melodies. In SSOASS he isn't. In FTGGOG Bruce's voice doesn't introduce a repeating new melody, in SSOASS it does.

Take CSiT for example. Each chorus is repeated twice. In each chorus there are 4 lyrically same lines. Only the 1st and the 3rd vocal line are melodically same. The vocals aren't repeating any of the other melodies found at the same time in the song. The guitar is taking the lead theme, having a distinct lick per (n) measures which correspond to a vocal line. Therefore, Smith's does 1-2-3-4 with licks, and that's the chorus riff.

Therefore, only thing truly repeated all the time are words themselves, and that's even not true since 4th line is oh oh and not words.

In FTGGOG, everything of pre-chorus and chorus is repeated. There's a single melody line for the prechorus guitars - copied by Bruce's vocals, and there's a single melody line for the chorus guitars - again copied by Bruce's vocals. The thing that pulls it out of catastrophe is the half-overlay where vocals aren't melodically repeating the whole riff, just a half, and then stfu, leaving at least some room for the listener to pick the nuance of the guitar riff, to not sound like a completely broken record.

I love this song because I can conceptually get the repetition, like LC mentioned, but the rest is brilliant and you don't need to grasp "the concept" or even know English.
 
I just remembered something. That shit that Maiden do time and time again, doubling vocals with Jan's guitar (which I hate on most occasions) actually didn't start with Maiden. I think the first time Bruce had a guitar in unison with his voice was actually Tears Of The Dragon. But in that case guitar is in lower register and it works better, like in EOTC.

I really don't know if Steve, Bruce or the other songwriters have ran out of ideas what to do with 3 guitars. I mean, the only harmonies they did on TBOS were the part before the fast part in TBOS and intro to DOG (which wasn't even recorded on the album, H added it live). But I hate it when Jan doubles Bruce's voice, it sounds horrible most of the times.
 
In the UK? So what? I met a Spaniard one time and after discussing metal, she put me on to them. Not a stretch to think that either one of these 2 globe trotting musicians may have come across a band that is pretty much in their own genre. Plus, you know, The Internet. Its not worth arguing about because no one knows but you are well wrong to think that its 'highly unlikely' that these two UK folk have never heard of Mago de Oz. You cant know. Neither can I. But the fact that they ripped off the riff suggests that they have.
 
Niall Kielt said:
In the UK? So what? I met a Spaniard one time and after discussing metal, she put me on to them. Not a stretch to think that either one of these 2 globe trotting musicians may have come across a band that is pretty much in their own genre. Plus, you know, The Internet. Its not worth arguing about because no one knows but you are well wrong to think that its 'highly unlikely' that these two UK folk have never heard of Mago de Oz. You cant know. Neither can I. But the fact that they ripped off the riff suggests that they have.
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This is laughable, as the riff is not that original to start with.

Regarding my "highly unlikely", it is based on the fact that Steve does not seem to listen to that much current music. He recently said he had discovered a new exciting band, Spock's Beard, when they had already been known for quite a long time to many people. If you add Steve's unawareness to newer bands that Mägo de Oz do not even sing in English, thinking that Steve and Janick might have even heard that song and decided to rip off the riff is, how shall I put it, highly unlikely.

Feel free to disagree. :)
 
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magpie_by_topgon.jpg
 
The comment that they 'ripped it off' was slightly tongue in cheek but my opinion and the general tone of my post, I think, makes it clear that I believe it possible that 2 English metal musicians may have heard of a none too obscure Spanish metal band. If you think this highly unlikely then fair play, may the gods bless ye and all who sail in ye!

All that said, I'm certain that Mago de Oz have 'ripped off' more Maiden riffs than vise-versa. That's the reason I like them. Anyway, I don't get bent out shape about most plagiarism issues. A reason why is thus; my mates were in a band, I loved them, saw them live many times and one day, guitar in hand, I came up with a class riff. It came quick and fluid, no working it out, it just flowed. As soon as it sprang from my mercurial fingers I realised that it was the main riff from one of my mates songs. Pretty much note for note. Now, I'm no prolific songwriter but I learned a lesson in that moment; Riff Thievery can happen, even with the purest of intentions and only really the Riff Master and those in their confidence truly know the Purity of the Riff. There's only so many notes. Overlap is inevitable. As is outright thievery. The pattern involved in the Maiden/Mago riff is pretty standard. I've no doubt that some bright spark can find an earlier version, probably from a medieval folk ditty.

Cried, what are you trying to say?
 
Probably that he thinks Steve is a magpie! :)

Regarding Mägo de Oz, they have borrowed stuff from too many bands, Maiden being one of them. :)
 
GhostofCain said:
It is shit they are highly unlikely to have ever listened to as they are hardly known in the UK.
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They have covered Strange world, so I’m sure at least Steve have listened to their version. And who knows, maybe they have opened for Maiden in Spain/Portugal before?
 
GhostofCain said:
I somehow doubt Steve and Jan might have even heard that song from Mägo de Oz... :lol:
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That sounds like the same miscalculation in the Maiden camp if they doubted that their audience might have heard (about) Beckett.
 
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GhostofCain said:
Regarding my "highly unlikely", it is based on the fact that Steve does not seem to listen to that much current music. He recently said he had discovered a new exciting band, Spock's Beard, when they had already been known for quite a long time to many people.
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An "alibi" we do not have to take for granted anymore. Let's quit being naive from now on.
 
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