Official Football Thread

[Forostar]

Still, Bayern were impressive against United last week. If they had produced that kind of performances more regularly I'd include them with United and Inter.

Don't underestimate an opponent, mate. They have produced more of such performances. Look at how they got to this stage.

So Man U can beat Barca if they go through tonight, and then at the same time Bayern can not do it (if they go through tonight)? Hrm?  

Speaking from a Man United fan's point of view,...

Ah, OK.    

And Inter is a team with a strong midfield and a real defense. So they certainly can beat Barca.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Don't underestimate an opponent, mate. They have produced more of such performances. Look at how they got to this stage.

So Man U can beat Barca if they go through tonight, and then at the same time Bayern can not do it (if they go through tonight)? Hrm? 

I didn't say Bayern can't beat Barcelona - just that Inter and United are the two teams that are closest to being able to take on them. Mainly due to a defense which is stronger, if all players are well fit for the encounter. I don't think the Bayern defense is as strong as the other two. And again, I'm speaking about their top level. All three teams would need to play at their very best to stop players like Messi and Ibrahimovic when they're playing like yesterday. 

At the other end of the pitch, all three teams can cause trouble for Barcelona. The Catalans aren't that strong in defense. Their attacking power is just so immense.

Underestimating Bayern for tonights game? Never. I'm nervous as hell.

When it comes to how Bayern got to this stage - that was a bad example. They came there through away goals, after winning the first leg 2-1 with the winner scored by a player two meters offside. Against a team which were not anywhere near their best form. That being said, Bayern were impressivelast week, and for that they should not be underestimated.

As for the "fan POW", that was more about how I feel about the league run-in. More about emotion than about dry analysis and what I think are the likely outcomes.

 

[Forostar]

Bayern is very strong in away matches, they always score. And they are one of the best teams while being behind. A great comeback team, so to speak.

I hope Bayern wins, I think it's good for the morale of players like Van Bommel & Robben, with a World Cup coming up. And Van Gaal may have another CL of me as well.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

I hope Bayern wins, I think it's good for the morale of players like Van Bommel & Robben, with a World Cup coming up. And Van Gaal may have another CL of me as well.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that 

No Norwegians in either side tonight, by the way. Not that that has used to have a big influence on which teams I like or dislike. If that was the case, I'd be supporting Wimbledon around 1997. I wasn't.

 

[Forostar]

Just curious, (maybe you've told and I forgot, sorry for that  ) how did you turn into a Man United supporter? Which season?

 

[Perun]

I hope Bayern wins,

You're allowed to say that, since there are two Dutch players in the team. If anybody else said that to me, there'd be hell to pay. Nobody is supposed to like Bayern.

 

[Forostar]

Hahaha

I have to meet you in a Bayern shirt one day. (I don't have one, but it'd be funny to buy one in a Berlin store.   )

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Just curious, (maybe you've told and I forgot, sorry for that  ) how did you turn into a Man United supporter? Which season?

I started getting into football in the early nineties, and two of my best friends from back then (in primary school) were Manchester United fans. One of them had it from his father and the other one from the first.

At the same time some other guys in my class, that I was not too friendly with back then, were Liverpool fans.

So really, I was converted from being almost completely uninterested in football to having it as my top interest (and reading everything I could come across about Man Utd) over a few months, triggered by my mates.

I'd say the year 1993 was when it started, I was 11 years old, and the first international match I watched on TV was the World Cup qualifier between Norway and England  Little did I know then about the frustration that had been associated with following United for the 25 years preceding 1993. I soon learned about it.

However, the first Premier League match I attended was not a United match, but Tottenham vs Aston Villa in August 1997. A fascinating encounter in which Spurs took the lead, Villa got 2-1 up before half time and then Spurs got back to win 3-2. Exactly the same as happened last time I saw United ringside. A 3-2 win against Villa, after being 2-1 down.
 

 

[Perun]

Hahaha

I have to meet you in a Bayern shirt one day. (I don't have one, but it'd be funny to buy one in a Berlin store.   )

Yeah, they sell them... to tourists!

 

[Forostar]

@Per: I guess I shouldn't be out on the Berlin streets then, with that shirt on. Well, I'll carry some photo camera or some other tourist attributes, to make it look more innocent.  

I started getting into football in the early nineties, and two of my best friends from back then (in primary school) were Manchester United fans. One of them had it from his father and the other one from the first.

At the same time some other guys in my class, that I was not too friendly with back then, were Liverpool fans.

So really, I was converted from being almost completely uninterested in football to having it as my top interest (and reading everything I could come across about Man Utd) over a few months, triggered by my mates.

Sounds like a logical development. I can imagine the influence of those other guys, the Liverpool fans, hehe.

I started getting into football some 10 years earlier. In the season 1983/84. It looked like everyone at school was for Ajax, but one day I encountered a drunk dude on the train station, giving away Feyenoord scarfs, for free. His enthusiasm grabbed me. I turned into a Feyenoord fan. I have to admit that my family (father and his brothers) also preferred Feyenoord, which is a real working class club, the club of the people. Ajax is more elite, so to speak. Feyenoord has always had a huge loyal fanbase, which was very important in the long years without success. I liked that. It was also more exciting to be a fan of a club which does not win every year. Back to the 83/84 season. This was a legendary season. Johan Cruyff's last season. At the end of the 1982–83 season, he played for Ajax (he played many years for Ajax, also in the sixties and seventies, Ajax really was his club) but Ajax decided not to offer Cruyff a new contract. This angered Cruyff, who responded by signing for Ajax's archrivals Feyenoord. Cruyff's season at Feyenoord was a successful one in which the club won the Eredivisie for the first time in a decade, part of a league and cup double.

So this was a great season to start following football intensely. Some of the best actions and goals I have seen in that season. Another legendary player, Ruud Gullit also played for Feyenoord back then. A great combo.

In 1984 I started to follow international football, being a huge fan of Platini and France. No Holland. In 1986 Maradona. No Holland. And Feyenoord? The next championship was in 1993. So, 1985-1992 were the dark years.

Apart from one year: 1988! Holland became European champions. Which was of course amazing, and awesome.

I'd say the year 1993 was when it started, I was 11 years old, and the first international match I watched on TV was the World Cup qualifier between Norway and England   Little did I know then about the frustration that had been associated with following United for the 25 years preceding 1993. I soon learned about it.

1993 eh, here we can pick up the League together again.

Around that time Jan Mølby was still playing for Liverpool. Man what a great player he was. The way he ruled on the midfield with those passes. Very impressive.

Cantona was also great to watch. Naturally there were more great players around that time, but these come to mind now.

However, the first Premier League match I attended was not a United match, but Tottenham vs Aston Villa in August 1997. A fascinating encounter in which Spurs took the lead, Villa got 2-1 up before half time and then Spurs got back to win 3-2. Exactly the same as happened last time I saw United ringside. A 3-2 win against Villa, after being 2-1 down.

I have only attended two Feyenoord matches. One league match in 1985 (I think), a draw without goals vs Sparta (the other, older club from Rotterdam), and one friendly match vs a local club, near where I live. I obtained two autographs (lost them both) from John the Wolf and Henk Fräser.

So, I am not a hardcore fan who likes to be there all the time. I prefer watching the games in my (or someone else's) living room.
 

 

[Albie]

I'd say the year 1993 was when it started, I was 11 years old, and the first international match I watched on TV was the World Cup qualifier between Norway and England  

That was the match that was made famous for a Graham Taylor quote: "Do I not like that!". A UK TV company filmed him for a documentary which was meant to be about Taylor's viewpoint in qualifying for USA 94, instead it became a film about his frustrations and, so it turned out, his inability to do the job. I tried to dig out some YouTube clips of this, but could not pin it down to that game - but I did see one where they panned across the bench. Nigel Clough, David Seaman, Gary Pallister, Ian Wright and Lee Sharpe - all on  the bench (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScjS_yUmZig). And who was Taylor shouting on the pitch - Carlton Palmer. As some of the comments stated, no wonder we struggled.

Still on the Norway/England theme, there was a more famous off the pitch incident that is ingrained into the mind of every England fan - "Your boys took one hell of a beating!" As spoken by a Norwegian commentator after England lost to Norway 2-1 in 1981. Parodied here by Fantasy Football hosts, Baddiel & Skinner. Watch out for the Dutch mock up at the end.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Still on the Norway/England theme, there was a more famous off the pitch incident that is ingrained into the mind of every England fan - "Your boys took one hell of a beating!" As spoken by a Norwegian commentator after England lost to Norway 2-1 in 1981. Parodied here by Fantasy Football hosts, Baddiel & Skinner. Watch out for the Dutch mock up at the end.

Oh yeah, Bjørge Lillelien (may he rest in peace) is a legend for that quote, and some more. For example, when Norwegian skier Ivar Formo won the 50 km in the 1976 World Championship, Lillelien uttered: "Saken er klar! Saken er biff! Saken er karbonader! Saken er ERTESUPPE!".

Digression: The expression "Saken er biff" is used to state that the job has been done successfully. It is supposedly derived from Swedish "Saken er bifallit" which means that something like an application has been approved. Some clever Norwegian shortened it to "biff" which means beef. Lillelien's exclamation then took it to new heights - "karbonader" are patties and "ertesuppe" translates to pea soup  

The "helluva beating" rant was also used by the Scots after they beat Norway 2-1 in 2005, with names replaced - and then again last year after we gave them some and beat them 4-0 - only then the Scottish papers wrote "OUR boys took a hell of a beating" ...

PS: That parody by Baddiel & Skinner was great! The fellow who is with them is Hallvar Thoresen, who played in Dutch football for 12 years from 1976 to 1988 (captained PSV for three seasons) and played for Norway 50 times. And the place where they've recorded this good shit, is Brann Stadium in Bergen. Brann is the club Thoresen managed from 1993 to 1995.

 

[Forostar]

O yeah baby!

Man, man, what a match.

Sir Alex Ferguson's trick worked.... for a while. But a match is (at least) 90 minutes.
And Manchester is too dependent on Rooney. Also mentally. He's like Steve Harris.
The squad wants to work for Rooney, they give 200%, because he does. For Berbatov they give 90%, because he isn't a worker himself.

Special credit to Van der Sar, he made 2 phenominal saves. His reaction on that (decisive) shot by Robben still shows how world class a goalkeeper he is. He is a living monument. But the shot was too good to save it.

Ferguson gambled with his 11 he put on the field. Young players, eager to proove themselves, aggression is what he had hoped for. He certainly got that aggression. Which also resulted in a red card (a dumb foul by the unexperienced, young Brazilian, who left the field like one on his way to the gallows).

You know what I find cool? The clubs with the most money (the English clubs plus Real Madrid) did not make it to the final four. That's a comforting thought.

 

[Albie]

You know what I find cool? The clubs with the most money (the English clubs plus Real Madrid) did not make it to the final four. That's a comforting thought.

What, like Bayern and Barcelona? Both these two are making more money than any English club bar possibly Man U - who are probably only better off than Bayern, just. With this weeks results in mind, they both may well overtake Man U - and Real, because there is not a great deal in it.

If you was to look at what clubs consistently make the top 4 richest, two of them have made the last 4.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Inter aren't exactly a poor club either ...

Anyway, yesterday's match. I hate to say so, but I don't think United were cynical enough.

Rooney should've come off in the moment he started limping, because those 10 minutes where he was not really taking part in play, Bayern were allowed to take over the initiative in the match. Even at 3-0, they were still in it, so cynicism was needed and we didn't see it. The 3-1 goal was due to sloppy defending, after United tried to do all the fancy tricks in the book. Don't ever do that against a German club.

Despite one can blame Rafael's lack of experience for him being sent off, I think Fergie was right to select him over Neville. The latter's lack of pace was too evident against Ribery last week, and I think Rafael coped well until he got his second yellow. Besides, I think he was unlucky with his first, because he should have had a free kick first. Again, lack of experience. Still, I don't think his team-mates will (nor should!) blame him for the exit.

Even with 10 men, United could've put up a better display in the second half. Lost far too many duels, and looked ... anxious. Manchester United should not look anxious at Old Trafford, not even if the other team has Lionel Messi - and Bayern didn't.

One has to give credit to Robben, though. His 3-2 goal was one from the top shelf. I couldn't have done it better myself ...

Now I'll be hoping for Lyon to win this, and I've already started looking forward to Blackburn on Saturday.

 

[Back in the Village]

United were effectively down to 10 men as soon as Rooney's injury flared up and Fergie should have taken him off immediately.

You can't excuse Rafael for being young and inexperienced. Even at that age he should have known better for the first yellow and then to haul Ribery back when he was still 40 yards from goal and with other defenders between him and goal was very poor judgement. It was a shame because apart from those two moments he was having an excellent game and had nullified Ribery.

You have to admire Bayern's tenacity. They never stopped being positive, even at 3-0 down. A lot of teams would have sunk without trace after United's opening. Think Roma from a couple of years back. They won their home leg 2-1 and then got thrashed 7-1 at Old Trafford.

So back to the league and I can only hope that Chelsea drop points somewehere and United can capitalise. Rooney is set to miss the Blackburn game but should be fit to face City at Middle Eastlands.

 

[Subzero85]

Title looks all but lost now, still in with an outside chance, a win at city would give everyone a huge lift at the club, only good thing this year is that Liverpool are doing awful, i mean what was Benitez thinking not even having Torres on the bench against a tough side like fulham

 

[Jonszat]

Really, it's a bit like saying that Ferguson was stupid as Rooney wasn't even on the bench, seeing as how Torres is injured and everything...

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Title looks all but lost now, still in with an outside chance, a win at city would give everyone a huge lift at the club, only good thing this year is that Liverpool are doing awful, i mean what was Benitez thinking not even having Torres on the bench against a tough side like fulham

I can't really take much comfort in Liverpool's crappy season. United have gone from being in pole position in the league and with a good chance for a Champions League semi-final to being behind (by 4 points if Chelsea beat Bolton) and out of the CL. And honestly, I don't think it's much better to see Man City claiming 4th than Liverpool. I'm crossing my fingers for Tottenham.

As if the 0-0 draw against Blackburn wasn't disappointing enough, Fredrikstad lost 3-0 away to our rivals Sarpsborg in a match we dominated for the last 65 minutes (two early goals, and then 3-0 in injury time when we had thrown everything in attack). In addition some idiots dragged our reputation into the dirt by throwing flares into a pub, attacking an old man and doing damage to several cars on their way to the match.

Sunday, bloody Sunday. I am depressed right now.

 

[Perun]

Sunday, bloody Sunday. I am depressed right now.

Tell me about it. Hertha lost on Saturday, and now there's merely a mathematical chance left that they won't be relegated.