Nightwish
- Thread starter MrKnickerbocker
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MrKnickerbocker
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That's super depressing considering I've been pretty disappointed with everything up to Stigmata, too.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Here’s my thing: I’ve only heard these albums (bar the debut) once, so time might be kinder than I feel right now. But what I liked about The Spell of Iron and To Live Forever is how the band could hang loose and jam out songs together. They sound like they’re having fun. Stigmata added in a serious and more progressive side to their music and it feels like we’re building towards something big for the band. But instead the subsequent albums gradually become nothing more than modern metal releases and while the band is still having fun, I’m left underwhelmed because of what could have been. There are individually strong songs on there, and you may like it more than I, but they became way less interesting as soon as they started becoming more like Nightwish. Marko is still awesome though.
MrKnickerbocker
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For the Glory of Nothing (1998)
As with most Tarot albums, this one is a mixed bag, but the production is finally good and Marko has come into his voice. He sounds absolutely phenomenal here, even in the weaker songs. The keyboards seem to fit better into the sonic landscape of the band, without sounding aggressively low budget. Kicking it off is upbeat rocker Crawlspace, which is a decent enough song, but suffers from the same vocal melody issues as previous tracks. It's average at best. Warhead is a dark and twisty mid-tempo number with atmospheric, Eastern-tinged keyboards and an effective, simplistic chorus. It's not very inspiring, but it's decent enough except for the bloated sound FX outro. I’m Here is a cool song, but it does have a very weird half-time chorus and a dumb fadeout.
Shining Black treads the same plodding doom metal ground as the previous album, but it has great vocals and killer guitar and bass solos. This might be the best example of their doomier songwriting so far. The album continues to pick up with the wickedly cool Beyond Troy. It's got some proggy bits, a sick main groove, twisty riffs, and a totally odd chorus. Just a wildly weird and awesome song, probably my favorite so far by the band. The badassery continues with Dark Star Burning, which is Tarot's most successful attempt at upbeat Deep Purple worship. The solo and outro are pretty weak, though. The Scourger also has a killer groove and is a solid song, but it never quite reaches its full potential. Just when I thought I had found a new favorite in Beyond Troy, Ghosts of Me shows up and obliterates every previous Tarot song. It's an absolute tour de force by Marko, with astoundingly emotional vocals and more power than ever. I love the random Renaissance Faire instrumental bits, though they are mixed quite oddly into the overall song.
The middle of the album is definitely the shining star, though, as the final two tracks are mostly forgettable. The Punishment has cool beep boops and evil riffs, but falls victim to more poor vocal melodies and lyrics. Closer Ice is a spacey, weird piece that oozes vibe, but not my kind of vibe. As a whole, this album sees the band tightening their songwriting scope while experimenting with completely new sounds, structures, and instrumentation. It's equally consistent to the previous record, but with higher highs for me and their best production yet.
As with most Tarot albums, this one is a mixed bag, but the production is finally good and Marko has come into his voice. He sounds absolutely phenomenal here, even in the weaker songs. The keyboards seem to fit better into the sonic landscape of the band, without sounding aggressively low budget. Kicking it off is upbeat rocker Crawlspace, which is a decent enough song, but suffers from the same vocal melody issues as previous tracks. It's average at best. Warhead is a dark and twisty mid-tempo number with atmospheric, Eastern-tinged keyboards and an effective, simplistic chorus. It's not very inspiring, but it's decent enough except for the bloated sound FX outro. I’m Here is a cool song, but it does have a very weird half-time chorus and a dumb fadeout.
Shining Black treads the same plodding doom metal ground as the previous album, but it has great vocals and killer guitar and bass solos. This might be the best example of their doomier songwriting so far. The album continues to pick up with the wickedly cool Beyond Troy. It's got some proggy bits, a sick main groove, twisty riffs, and a totally odd chorus. Just a wildly weird and awesome song, probably my favorite so far by the band. The badassery continues with Dark Star Burning, which is Tarot's most successful attempt at upbeat Deep Purple worship. The solo and outro are pretty weak, though. The Scourger also has a killer groove and is a solid song, but it never quite reaches its full potential. Just when I thought I had found a new favorite in Beyond Troy, Ghosts of Me shows up and obliterates every previous Tarot song. It's an absolute tour de force by Marko, with astoundingly emotional vocals and more power than ever. I love the random Renaissance Faire instrumental bits, though they are mixed quite oddly into the overall song.
The middle of the album is definitely the shining star, though, as the final two tracks are mostly forgettable. The Punishment has cool beep boops and evil riffs, but falls victim to more poor vocal melodies and lyrics. Closer Ice is a spacey, weird piece that oozes vibe, but not my kind of vibe. As a whole, this album sees the band tightening their songwriting scope while experimenting with completely new sounds, structures, and instrumentation. It's equally consistent to the previous record, but with higher highs for me and their best production yet.
MrKnickerbocker
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Suffer Our Pleasures (2003)
Another mixed bag that for some reason puts all the best material in the middle of the album. The good news: the production is better than ever before. The bad news: the songwriting is not. Opener I Rule is just one giant unmemorable mess and Pyre of the Gods is only slightly better thanks to a halfway decent chorus, but the riffs and tone still sound very (to quote Professor Ulrich) "stock." Our main doom metal entry is Rider of the Last Day, which trudges on for awhile with Marko crooning and crunching his bass. The tempo change halfway through the song levels it up, but overall it’s too repetitive and not catchy enough to be one of the greats. Follow The Blind might be the heaviest Tarot song, with running double bass, chromatic leads, and crunching drop tuned chords serving as the backing for Marko's devilish sneers. The chorus takes some weird turns that I either hate or love, haven't decided yet. The post-solo bridge is plain wacky, though. Undead Son is definitely interesting and has a wild bridge section but the chorus is not as catchy as they think it is.
Of Time and Dust is just another exercise in Floydian doom metal, but at least the guitar solo is good. From The Void is a straight up good song with really cool rhythmic changes throughout and a super driving chorus. Convulsions is middling groove metal and easily the worst track. From The Shadows has a literal country chicken pickin' intro and then ends up being the most straightforward power metal song here. It’s not great, but at least it’s fun. Painless gets some points for being experimental, but acoustic country blues, 808 loops, and regular metal shouting just don't make any sense together…what a weird fucking song to end this album. Throw another C+/B- entry on the Tarot report card (shit, I'm beginning to think they're all that).
Another mixed bag that for some reason puts all the best material in the middle of the album. The good news: the production is better than ever before. The bad news: the songwriting is not. Opener I Rule is just one giant unmemorable mess and Pyre of the Gods is only slightly better thanks to a halfway decent chorus, but the riffs and tone still sound very (to quote Professor Ulrich) "stock." Our main doom metal entry is Rider of the Last Day, which trudges on for awhile with Marko crooning and crunching his bass. The tempo change halfway through the song levels it up, but overall it’s too repetitive and not catchy enough to be one of the greats. Follow The Blind might be the heaviest Tarot song, with running double bass, chromatic leads, and crunching drop tuned chords serving as the backing for Marko's devilish sneers. The chorus takes some weird turns that I either hate or love, haven't decided yet. The post-solo bridge is plain wacky, though. Undead Son is definitely interesting and has a wild bridge section but the chorus is not as catchy as they think it is.
Of Time and Dust is just another exercise in Floydian doom metal, but at least the guitar solo is good. From The Void is a straight up good song with really cool rhythmic changes throughout and a super driving chorus. Convulsions is middling groove metal and easily the worst track. From The Shadows has a literal country chicken pickin' intro and then ends up being the most straightforward power metal song here. It’s not great, but at least it’s fun. Painless gets some points for being experimental, but acoustic country blues, 808 loops, and regular metal shouting just don't make any sense together…what a weird fucking song to end this album. Throw another C+/B- entry on the Tarot report card (shit, I'm beginning to think they're all that).
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
This might be the worst album just because I remember almost nothing except for PAINLESS PAINLESS PAINLESS…
I will say that I find the closing tracks post Stigmata to be interesting because they kind of build on what the previous ones set. “Ice” is incredible stripped back with the sampler being the main foundation; “Painless” adds more layers to that sound; and then on Crows Fly Black “Grey” is pretty much a proper song again though it comes out of those same vibes. And then “Gone” on Gravity of Light is finally nearly another epic, but way less interesting than “Stigmata (I Feel for You)”.
MrKnickerbocker
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It’s really truly bad.
So far, other than the ridiculously poorly recorded debut, To Live Forever is bottom of the barrel for me. Too much bloat and not much good. All the other records up to this point have higher highs.
It’s definitely interesting for me to see how much production affects my enjoyment of music, to which the answer is: supremely.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
My top 3 is Stigmata, The Spell of Iron, and To Live Forever. I really don’t care about the rest. TLF is bloated, sure, but Marko sounds great on there, I love the way the keyboards interact with the guitar, and the bangers on there are great. “Color of Your Blood” in particular, but also “Guardian Angel” is goofy in a super fun way.
MrKnickerbocker
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Crows Fly Black (2006)
The production is once again top notch ever since Tarot's Baby Daddy Marko got dat Nightwish coin. As with the previous record, the highs are pretty high here and the lows are just mediocre and forgettable. There's nothing truly bad on this record, so at least that's an improvement. The opening title track is a great, creepy tune. The riffs are cool, Marko drawls the first verse to perfection and new singer Tommi Salmela does a decent job on the second verse (though I see absolutely no fucking reason why Tarot would recruit an additional lead singer, especially one who sounds like a B-league Marko). The layers in the final outro chorus are super cool and menacing. This is definitely a new take on the Tarot sound and it's quite interesting. More traditionally power metal Traitor has energy for days and the two singers are layered nicely in both the verses and chorus. The straight up power metal bridge is awesome. This is another solidly good tune. Ashes to the Stars has pretty stock riffs but awesome vocals, even though, again, half of those vocals are not Marko. WTF guys? Anyway, we've got more creepy verses and a big, melodic chorus plus a cool breakdown and solo. So far so good on this record!
Messenger of Gods is super dark and yet somehow has a “woah oh” chorus. This one is not their best work and is the first full miss on the album. It might even be the worst song. Before the Skies Come Down has a great stomp and killer vocals by Marko, plus another big hooky chorus. Finally, Tarot has learned to write catchy melodies! There's also another cool, melodic power metal bridge and a ripping solo. The final good song here is Tides: a masterful heavy ballad that adds a new twist to the traditional Tarot doom metal. This one is an instant classic. Sadly, the remainder of the album coasts all the way to a mediocre finish. Bleeding Dust is energetic, but unmemorable and stock groove metal that features more Tommi than Marko. You is an inoffensively average nothingburger. Howl! has more vocal dueting and I'm just not sure why. There’s a cool, bluesy acoustic-led groove and it’s fine enough but it gets repetitive really quick. And finally Grey leads us back into keyboard and sample land, but with a more traditional song structure and a heavy chorus. As with the previous few tracks, it’s a workmanlike tune that isn’t very inspiring or memorable.
Thankfully, I'm seeing a lot more to love in these later Tarot releases, even if they are treading closer to rote by-the-numbers metal at this point. This record is, on average, probably the strongest yet. Half of the songs are awesome and other half merely bland.
The production is once again top notch ever since Tarot's Baby Daddy Marko got dat Nightwish coin. As with the previous record, the highs are pretty high here and the lows are just mediocre and forgettable. There's nothing truly bad on this record, so at least that's an improvement. The opening title track is a great, creepy tune. The riffs are cool, Marko drawls the first verse to perfection and new singer Tommi Salmela does a decent job on the second verse (though I see absolutely no fucking reason why Tarot would recruit an additional lead singer, especially one who sounds like a B-league Marko). The layers in the final outro chorus are super cool and menacing. This is definitely a new take on the Tarot sound and it's quite interesting. More traditionally power metal Traitor has energy for days and the two singers are layered nicely in both the verses and chorus. The straight up power metal bridge is awesome. This is another solidly good tune. Ashes to the Stars has pretty stock riffs but awesome vocals, even though, again, half of those vocals are not Marko. WTF guys? Anyway, we've got more creepy verses and a big, melodic chorus plus a cool breakdown and solo. So far so good on this record!
Messenger of Gods is super dark and yet somehow has a “woah oh” chorus. This one is not their best work and is the first full miss on the album. It might even be the worst song. Before the Skies Come Down has a great stomp and killer vocals by Marko, plus another big hooky chorus. Finally, Tarot has learned to write catchy melodies! There's also another cool, melodic power metal bridge and a ripping solo. The final good song here is Tides: a masterful heavy ballad that adds a new twist to the traditional Tarot doom metal. This one is an instant classic. Sadly, the remainder of the album coasts all the way to a mediocre finish. Bleeding Dust is energetic, but unmemorable and stock groove metal that features more Tommi than Marko. You is an inoffensively average nothingburger. Howl! has more vocal dueting and I'm just not sure why. There’s a cool, bluesy acoustic-led groove and it’s fine enough but it gets repetitive really quick. And finally Grey leads us back into keyboard and sample land, but with a more traditional song structure and a heavy chorus. As with the previous few tracks, it’s a workmanlike tune that isn’t very inspiring or memorable.
Thankfully, I'm seeing a lot more to love in these later Tarot releases, even if they are treading closer to rote by-the-numbers metal at this point. This record is, on average, probably the strongest yet. Half of the songs are awesome and other half merely bland.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
If Marko is a Viking, then Tommi is a scarecrow. But not a scary one, actually I always think of Spud from Bob the Builder when he sings lol.
Based on how I feel right now, this one is a contender for their best song overall (alongside “Stigmata (I Feel for You)” and “Wings of Darkness”). That chorus is fucking outstanding. I think Tarot have a similar problem to Metallica, though, in that they don’t know when enough is enough and their transitions are often awkward. The first time I heard this song I was blown away, then when I actually played it as part of the album I was like “god this thing goes on forever”, and now playing it again just by itself it’s still really cool. I think they may be a band where the songs are better outside the contexts of the album than within.
MrKnickerbocker
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Gravity of Light (2010)
Our final album of new Tarot material is far less interesting than the previous records. Satan Is Dead pulls no punches to kick off the album, with a rollicking feel and lots of get-up-and-go. Immediately one thing is clear: Tommi is now a full lead singer of this band and he sings as much as Marko. They literally trade off every line here and on most subsequent songs. Nothing against him as he has a technically good voice (and really loves holding notes for 6 bars over riff transitions), but I just don't get it. He sounds like Marko, same pitch, same range, just without as much soul or depth. Anyway, this opening track is average at best. Moving on. Hell Knows has an awesome riff, cool groove, and a solid chorus. I really hate Tommi's singing on the second verse - he sounds like Jack Black doing an Ozzy impression. Otherwise, this is a great song. By the time we get to third track, Rise!, I'm already sick to death of the vocal trade offs. Anyway, this song is mediocre and not really my thing. The random acoustic chorus is mildly interesting, though. Pilot of All Dreams has fiesty riffing and power metal drums, but once again just never really breaks into being anything more than serviceable. Also, the chorus is kind of annoying. THA PIE-LOTT THA PIE-LOTT THA PIE-LOTT
Sadly, nothing improves until the final track. Magic and Technology is another entry in the "Tarot Writes a Messy, But Competent Doom Metal Song" category, Calling Down the Rain has an incredibly annoying main riff and Tommi sounds more grating than ever as he takes the majority of the leads, Caught in the Deadlights is just a giant mess, and Sleep in the Dark is more of the same but features the absolute dumbest lyric yet. There's also the bizarre I Walk Forever, aka Tarot's most played track on Spotify. I don't really get it. It starts with a Linkin Park piano beat loop, then cuts to what literally sounds like an Audioslave song, only to end up being kind of a power ballad with a giant AOR chorus. It's not a bad song, it just doesn't really make any sense. Thank Dio that the proper final song, Gone, is an absolute emotional masterpiece. Truly a crowning achievement for the band and definitely a better send off (in terms of new material) than Marko's final song with Nightwish. There is also a bonus song, End of Everything, that works as a very nice coda, but also diminishes the power of Gone.
As far as final albums go, this is a big letdown to a career that, to me, was already pretty disappointing. There are two great songs here, the rest is a mess. It's clear that the band has integrated Tommi to handle some of the wailing highs to give Marko's voice a rest, but it's just not comparable in character. Based on their general lack of songwriting ability, I find Marko's voice to be the sole redeeming quality of Tarot. Reducing that down to 60% of the lead vocals doesn't fly with me, especially when the material is this lackluster.
Also worth mentioning is the 25th anniversary re-recording of The Spell of Iron (2011). We actually see quite a few changes in the overall songs, mostly including downtuning, instrumental changes, and tempo fluctuations. With the obvious exception being the far better modern production, I don't know if it's better or worse than the original but I appreciate that they didn't just completely rerecord everything note for note. These songs are different.
Midwinter Nights
What works? The second half is greatly improved by the added dynamics. Marko sounds better here than on the debut.
What doesn't work? The half-time feel in the beginning neuters the song. Tommi.
Which is better? Original
Dancing on the Wire
What works? The increased heaviness, the increased speed, the keyboards, the double bass.
What doesn't work? The quieter chorus, Marko's voice sounds weird, Tommi.
Which is better? Original
Back in the Fire
What works? Again, the addition of keyboards adds an awesome layer. The tempo is upped quite a bit. Double bass!
What doesn't work? Tommi.
Which is better? MMXI
Love's Not Made For My Kind
This one...is wild. It is 100% a different song. The original is a 3 and a 1/2 minute straightforward, almost glam, 80's boom-bap soft rocker. This new version is a 6 and a 1/2 minute doom metal power ballad. I think I prefer the new version, but in terms of translating the original material it is not representative at all and I am torn. Also, the new version drags on way too long.
Which is better? draw
Never Forever
What works? Tommi actually sounds better on this song than Marko did (which isn't saying much considering it's a bad song). The random prog additions at least make it more interesting.
What doesn't work? The shuffle feel. The keyboards make this seem like another Deep Purple cover.
Which is better? idk neither
Spell of Iron
What works? Keyboards are nice atmospheric flourishes. The far slower tempo allows the song to breathe a bit more, especially in the vocal melodies. Double bass in the chorus.
What doesn't work? The slower tempo also cuts out the rushing drum tempo during the chorus, which makes the song lose some power. We finally get to the double time snare but only for like one or two measures at the end. Oh, also Tommi is annoying.
Which is better? draw
De Mortui Nil Nisi Bene
What works? Literally everything. This song originally sounded like poorly composed video game music and now it sounds like a demented folk dance inside of a Russian bar. Honestly, the level of playing here is pretty impressive. Better than expected.
Which is better? MMXI
Pharao
What works? Again, pretty much everything. The production gives the drums the power they needed, the lower tuning makes it heavier, and the vocals sound 1000x better here. It's still not a good song, but the original was really shit.
Which is better? MMXI
Wings of Darkness
What works? The production, I guess.
What doesn't work? Everything else. The lower tuning makes those pre-chorus vocal runs sound pretty awkward and the vocal harmony on the chorus makes it sound too cluttered.
Which is better? Original
Things That Crawl At Night
What works? The layering of the intro riff (now played by guitar, keyboard, and sampler instead of just a guitar arpeggio) is really effective. I don't know if I like it more, but it's nice. Marko sounds like himself now instead of high tenor Meatloaf.
What doesn't work? I miss the opening bars of the outro solo that used to sound like a theremin.
Which is better? Both are good for different reasons. The space in the original makes it more lonely and haunting, but I think the new one is a better composition. I'll go with MMXI.
Our final album of new Tarot material is far less interesting than the previous records. Satan Is Dead pulls no punches to kick off the album, with a rollicking feel and lots of get-up-and-go. Immediately one thing is clear: Tommi is now a full lead singer of this band and he sings as much as Marko. They literally trade off every line here and on most subsequent songs. Nothing against him as he has a technically good voice (and really loves holding notes for 6 bars over riff transitions), but I just don't get it. He sounds like Marko, same pitch, same range, just without as much soul or depth. Anyway, this opening track is average at best. Moving on. Hell Knows has an awesome riff, cool groove, and a solid chorus. I really hate Tommi's singing on the second verse - he sounds like Jack Black doing an Ozzy impression. Otherwise, this is a great song. By the time we get to third track, Rise!, I'm already sick to death of the vocal trade offs. Anyway, this song is mediocre and not really my thing. The random acoustic chorus is mildly interesting, though. Pilot of All Dreams has fiesty riffing and power metal drums, but once again just never really breaks into being anything more than serviceable. Also, the chorus is kind of annoying. THA PIE-LOTT THA PIE-LOTT THA PIE-LOTT
Sadly, nothing improves until the final track. Magic and Technology is another entry in the "Tarot Writes a Messy, But Competent Doom Metal Song" category, Calling Down the Rain has an incredibly annoying main riff and Tommi sounds more grating than ever as he takes the majority of the leads, Caught in the Deadlights is just a giant mess, and Sleep in the Dark is more of the same but features the absolute dumbest lyric yet. There's also the bizarre I Walk Forever, aka Tarot's most played track on Spotify. I don't really get it. It starts with a Linkin Park piano beat loop, then cuts to what literally sounds like an Audioslave song, only to end up being kind of a power ballad with a giant AOR chorus. It's not a bad song, it just doesn't really make any sense. Thank Dio that the proper final song, Gone, is an absolute emotional masterpiece. Truly a crowning achievement for the band and definitely a better send off (in terms of new material) than Marko's final song with Nightwish. There is also a bonus song, End of Everything, that works as a very nice coda, but also diminishes the power of Gone.
As far as final albums go, this is a big letdown to a career that, to me, was already pretty disappointing. There are two great songs here, the rest is a mess. It's clear that the band has integrated Tommi to handle some of the wailing highs to give Marko's voice a rest, but it's just not comparable in character. Based on their general lack of songwriting ability, I find Marko's voice to be the sole redeeming quality of Tarot. Reducing that down to 60% of the lead vocals doesn't fly with me, especially when the material is this lackluster.
Absolutely. He's perched high up there, singing with the birds but having the literal depth of straw.
Also worth mentioning is the 25th anniversary re-recording of The Spell of Iron (2011). We actually see quite a few changes in the overall songs, mostly including downtuning, instrumental changes, and tempo fluctuations. With the obvious exception being the far better modern production, I don't know if it's better or worse than the original but I appreciate that they didn't just completely rerecord everything note for note. These songs are different.
Midwinter Nights
What works? The second half is greatly improved by the added dynamics. Marko sounds better here than on the debut.
What doesn't work? The half-time feel in the beginning neuters the song. Tommi.
Which is better? Original
Dancing on the Wire
What works? The increased heaviness, the increased speed, the keyboards, the double bass.
What doesn't work? The quieter chorus, Marko's voice sounds weird, Tommi.
Which is better? Original
Back in the Fire
What works? Again, the addition of keyboards adds an awesome layer. The tempo is upped quite a bit. Double bass!
What doesn't work? Tommi.
Which is better? MMXI
Love's Not Made For My Kind
This one...is wild. It is 100% a different song. The original is a 3 and a 1/2 minute straightforward, almost glam, 80's boom-bap soft rocker. This new version is a 6 and a 1/2 minute doom metal power ballad. I think I prefer the new version, but in terms of translating the original material it is not representative at all and I am torn. Also, the new version drags on way too long.
Which is better? draw
Never Forever
What works? Tommi actually sounds better on this song than Marko did (which isn't saying much considering it's a bad song). The random prog additions at least make it more interesting.
What doesn't work? The shuffle feel. The keyboards make this seem like another Deep Purple cover.
Which is better? idk neither
Spell of Iron
What works? Keyboards are nice atmospheric flourishes. The far slower tempo allows the song to breathe a bit more, especially in the vocal melodies. Double bass in the chorus.
What doesn't work? The slower tempo also cuts out the rushing drum tempo during the chorus, which makes the song lose some power. We finally get to the double time snare but only for like one or two measures at the end. Oh, also Tommi is annoying.
Which is better? draw
De Mortui Nil Nisi Bene
What works? Literally everything. This song originally sounded like poorly composed video game music and now it sounds like a demented folk dance inside of a Russian bar. Honestly, the level of playing here is pretty impressive. Better than expected.
Which is better? MMXI
Pharao
What works? Again, pretty much everything. The production gives the drums the power they needed, the lower tuning makes it heavier, and the vocals sound 1000x better here. It's still not a good song, but the original was really shit.
Which is better? MMXI
Wings of Darkness
What works? The production, I guess.
What doesn't work? Everything else. The lower tuning makes those pre-chorus vocal runs sound pretty awkward and the vocal harmony on the chorus makes it sound too cluttered.
Which is better? Original
Things That Crawl At Night
What works? The layering of the intro riff (now played by guitar, keyboard, and sampler instead of just a guitar arpeggio) is really effective. I don't know if I like it more, but it's nice. Marko sounds like himself now instead of high tenor Meatloaf.
What doesn't work? I miss the opening bars of the outro solo that used to sound like a theremin.
Which is better? Both are good for different reasons. The space in the original makes it more lonely and haunting, but I think the new one is a better composition. I'll go with MMXI.
MrKnickerbocker
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I've spent the last week diving into the self-indulgent, but often rewarding solo discography of...
TARJA
I'll start with her rock albums, since truly her output should be divided into two separate categories.
My Winter Storm (2007)
Tarja placates her built-in fanbase by embracing hard rock on her second, more successful release. Main single, and Tarja’s biggest song, I Walk Alone, is quite good (especially the creepy verses). The album treads similar ground throughout its inexplicably long runtime to varying degrees of success. There’s heaviness, cinematic dynamics, and certainly plenty of drama. Tarja’s vocal acting is actually rather impressive here (there’s literally moments where she sounds like Anette), as is the vocal production. The cover of Alice Cooper’s Poison is certainly a weird choice and the multiple interludes are a waste of time considering we’re all here for only one thing.
I’m not sure if she’s ever commented on it, but it’s easy to see this album as a fantastical processing of Tarja’s feelings about her treatment in Nightwish. Songs like I Walk Alone, Boy and The Ghost, and Sing For Me are clearly pretty personal takes regarding her departure from the band. There’s definite shade being thrown at Tuomas - Tarja literally has a character on the album called The Dead Boy who “only wants toys”, is full of “so much hate” and whose “light” has gone out. The one attempt at a truly metal song, Ciarán’s Well, is disjointed and honestly a bit aggravating. Overall this is well enough composed and well performed, but is hurt by it’s ridiculous length. B
What Lies Beneath (2010)
Continuing where the previous album left off, Tarja continues to push sonic boundaries within her operatic rock hard approach. The opener is incredibly weird, with baroque pop and choir interplay and a heavy, twisting chorus. Until My Last Breath could literally be a Nightwish song. I Feel Immortal is a solid power ballad. In For a Kill has a really cool ascending vocal melody and a nice, metal-ish groove. Underneath has a nice chorus but flaccid verses. Little Lies is Tarja’s heaviest solo song yet but the vocals leave a bit to be desired. Rivers of Lust is an underwhelming ballad. Dark Star is a decent attempt at a radio metal song. Falling Awake is an album highlight with a hooky chorus and a stellar solo by Mr. Joe Satriani! The Archive of Lost Dreams is a solid ballad written solely by Tarja. Crimson Deep caps off the album nicely with an epic full of powerful hard rock dramatics.
Far more consistent than her rock debut, with a handful of very good songs. Tarja sounds better than ever and is definitely pushing herself to explore new genres. A
Colours in the Dark (2013)
Tarja delivers another enjoyable slab of dark, symphonic metal-tinged rock. The writing seems a bit more pretentious this time around, with nearly every song lingering far too long. Most of these tunes, even when reaching excessive lengths, manage to retain the high level of quality heard on the previous two albums. Half of the album skews towards moody, radio-ready lite metal such as the decent Never Enough, the annoying Victim of Ritual, crunchy and industrial-tinged Neverlight, and obvious single 500 Letters (which makes me want to hear Tarja cover Seasons of Love from RENT). Even the lesser of these songs have some cool riffs, grooves, and memorable sections.
The other half of the album contains four “epics” that do not always justify their lengths. Lucid Dreamer and Mystique Voyage are dark and enthralling, but ultimately unsatisfying due to elongated sound effect sections. Deliverance is far more successful with its cool symphonic bridge and double time ending. Album closer Medusa is pretty cool, but has no business being eight minutes long. Until Silence is the only proper ballad and, for better or worse, Tarja also puts her own spin on Peter Gabriel’s Darkness. Tarja’s third rock album is consistent, but she desperately needs someone to edit the track lengths and tone down the pretentiousness. B
The Shadow Self (2016)
We thankfully return to Tarja’s bread and butter: moody pianos, chunky distorted guitar chugs, and lots of gothic ambiance. The magic is waning, however, as Tarja’s lack of self-editing and penchant for experimentation have started to get the best of her. She continues to put forth decent, powerful songs with nice crescendos that feel twice as long as they need to be (Innocence, Love to Hate, Undertaker, Too Many). The risks taken here are all failures though, such as the inexplicable choice to cover a Muse song (check that off the list of things I never needed to hear), shades of Christian rock in Eagle Eye, and a really, really dumb hidden track attempting to be funny. And we cannot forgot Demons In You, which is, wait for it, a funk metal song featuring Alissa White-Gluz on vocals that is exactly as bad as it sounds.
Of course there are good and interesting songs like No Bitter End, which adds a sunny dose of joy to Tarja’s typical gothic black color pallet, Diva, with its twisted waltz time, and The Living End, which is a pretty little Celtic-ish piano ballad. Calling From the Wild is also pretty kickass but has some questionable melodic and spoken word choices. Overall, this one does not do much for me. It feels half hollow, like it’s trying far too hard to be interesting, and half self-indulgent, as do all of Tarja’s works. The dark tonality is still alive and kicking, but the songs are getting less memorable. C+
In The Raw (2019)
Tarja hits a home run on her latest release, featuring her most consistently strong songs yet. Opening number Dead Promises has a cool power metal riff and a hooky chorus. It also features Bjorn Strid from Soilwork, who adds a nice dimension to the song even if he doesn’t blend very well with Tarja. Goodbye Stranger is bluesy, groove metal with awesome layered vocals. Not sure why Cristina Scabbia is here (other than marketing), but she sounds fine. The next two tracks are also great: Tears in Rain is a solid, melodic radio metal tune and Railroads a mid-tempo rocker with some really interesting vocals, a simplistically catchy keyboard riff, and a big semi-operatic chorus. There’s also really nice string work on the latter. Capping off “side 1” is You and I: a traditional piano ballad. It’s nice in an Adele sort of way, but hearing Tarja singing a straightforward love song feels very strange.
The middle of the album certainly dips with The Golden Chamber, a 7 minute exercise in making an operatic Enya song. It is the first real superfluous track here. Spirits of the Sea brings the heaviness back a bit, but ultimately plods along and drags on forever. Just when it seems like all is lost, Silent Masquerade brings us back to life with a killer epic featuring the always wonderful Tommy Karevik. It’s a great tune, but the intro and outro narration are obnoxious, as is the weird weeping halfway through the track. Serene dives back into heavy riffs and big vocal hooks and closer Shadow Play is phenomenal, the only song in Tarja’s catalogue to hit 7 minutes and not feel overbearing. It’s a showstopper.
On the vocal side, Tarja holds up well but it definitely sounds like her range is shrinking. Most of these songs feature more traditionally “rock” style vocals, leaving the operatics for heavily layered or produced sections. Despite a couple weaker tracks, this is an expertly sequenced album. The track flow is pretty much perfect. A
Classical/Holiday releases:
Henkäys ikuisuudesta (2006)
A very pretty collection of lighter fare sung mostly in Finnish that allows enough musical space for us to hear all of Tarja’s voice. The single, You Would Have Loved This, is a very touching tune. The stripped down piano cover of Walking in the Air feels a bit pointless, though. I may not know what Tarja is singing about and the album is far too long with little change in dynamics, but I guess this is a pleasant enough listen for a cold Christmastime day. C+
Ave Maria - En Plein Air (2015)
So, we’ve talked a lot about a lack of self-editing and an overwhelming air of smothering pretentiousness, right? Well, here’s a full fucking feast of it. It’s literally one song, 12 different versions of Ave Maria (the Latin prayer sung over a slightly modified version of Bach’s Prelude No. 1). Not only is this a ridiculous listening experience, she already recorded the song on her first album! This is an audio experiment, not an album. D
From Spirits and Ghosts (Score for a Dark Christmas) (2017)
Tarja brings the creepy on this lark of a Christmas record. The conceit is simple: it’s Christmas songs with a gothic twist. At times, this record is very successful in fulfilling that promise. Deck the Halls is legitimately nightmare-inducing and sounds like the ghosts of dead children returning from the grave to shove coal down your throat. We Wish You a Merry Christmas could be a demonic dirge lead by Mrs. Krampus as she steals your soul. I never thought I could be so terrified by figgy pudding. Some songs are less successful, such as the stunning but odd choice of Amazing Grace and the choice to turn Feliz Navidad into a six minute ballad. Sole original track Together is fine enough, but also lifts its vocal intro from Nightwish’s Our Decades in the Sun.
The schtick gets old over the course of 50 minutes, though. As with all things Tarja it is overindulgent. Virtually every track goes from an elongated intro of sub-audible 808 hits, spooky minimalist piano, and drawn out melodies to a climax of cinematic, speaker-shredding orchestral bombast. A few of these songs will be added to my Christmas playlist, the rest of this album will drift away into the blackened snow. B-
TARJA
I'll start with her rock albums, since truly her output should be divided into two separate categories.
My Winter Storm (2007)
Tarja placates her built-in fanbase by embracing hard rock on her second, more successful release. Main single, and Tarja’s biggest song, I Walk Alone, is quite good (especially the creepy verses). The album treads similar ground throughout its inexplicably long runtime to varying degrees of success. There’s heaviness, cinematic dynamics, and certainly plenty of drama. Tarja’s vocal acting is actually rather impressive here (there’s literally moments where she sounds like Anette), as is the vocal production. The cover of Alice Cooper’s Poison is certainly a weird choice and the multiple interludes are a waste of time considering we’re all here for only one thing.
I’m not sure if she’s ever commented on it, but it’s easy to see this album as a fantastical processing of Tarja’s feelings about her treatment in Nightwish. Songs like I Walk Alone, Boy and The Ghost, and Sing For Me are clearly pretty personal takes regarding her departure from the band. There’s definite shade being thrown at Tuomas - Tarja literally has a character on the album called The Dead Boy who “only wants toys”, is full of “so much hate” and whose “light” has gone out. The one attempt at a truly metal song, Ciarán’s Well, is disjointed and honestly a bit aggravating. Overall this is well enough composed and well performed, but is hurt by it’s ridiculous length. B
What Lies Beneath (2010)
Continuing where the previous album left off, Tarja continues to push sonic boundaries within her operatic rock hard approach. The opener is incredibly weird, with baroque pop and choir interplay and a heavy, twisting chorus. Until My Last Breath could literally be a Nightwish song. I Feel Immortal is a solid power ballad. In For a Kill has a really cool ascending vocal melody and a nice, metal-ish groove. Underneath has a nice chorus but flaccid verses. Little Lies is Tarja’s heaviest solo song yet but the vocals leave a bit to be desired. Rivers of Lust is an underwhelming ballad. Dark Star is a decent attempt at a radio metal song. Falling Awake is an album highlight with a hooky chorus and a stellar solo by Mr. Joe Satriani! The Archive of Lost Dreams is a solid ballad written solely by Tarja. Crimson Deep caps off the album nicely with an epic full of powerful hard rock dramatics.
Far more consistent than her rock debut, with a handful of very good songs. Tarja sounds better than ever and is definitely pushing herself to explore new genres. A
Colours in the Dark (2013)
Tarja delivers another enjoyable slab of dark, symphonic metal-tinged rock. The writing seems a bit more pretentious this time around, with nearly every song lingering far too long. Most of these tunes, even when reaching excessive lengths, manage to retain the high level of quality heard on the previous two albums. Half of the album skews towards moody, radio-ready lite metal such as the decent Never Enough, the annoying Victim of Ritual, crunchy and industrial-tinged Neverlight, and obvious single 500 Letters (which makes me want to hear Tarja cover Seasons of Love from RENT). Even the lesser of these songs have some cool riffs, grooves, and memorable sections.
The other half of the album contains four “epics” that do not always justify their lengths. Lucid Dreamer and Mystique Voyage are dark and enthralling, but ultimately unsatisfying due to elongated sound effect sections. Deliverance is far more successful with its cool symphonic bridge and double time ending. Album closer Medusa is pretty cool, but has no business being eight minutes long. Until Silence is the only proper ballad and, for better or worse, Tarja also puts her own spin on Peter Gabriel’s Darkness. Tarja’s third rock album is consistent, but she desperately needs someone to edit the track lengths and tone down the pretentiousness. B
The Shadow Self (2016)
We thankfully return to Tarja’s bread and butter: moody pianos, chunky distorted guitar chugs, and lots of gothic ambiance. The magic is waning, however, as Tarja’s lack of self-editing and penchant for experimentation have started to get the best of her. She continues to put forth decent, powerful songs with nice crescendos that feel twice as long as they need to be (Innocence, Love to Hate, Undertaker, Too Many). The risks taken here are all failures though, such as the inexplicable choice to cover a Muse song (check that off the list of things I never needed to hear), shades of Christian rock in Eagle Eye, and a really, really dumb hidden track attempting to be funny. And we cannot forgot Demons In You, which is, wait for it, a funk metal song featuring Alissa White-Gluz on vocals that is exactly as bad as it sounds.
Of course there are good and interesting songs like No Bitter End, which adds a sunny dose of joy to Tarja’s typical gothic black color pallet, Diva, with its twisted waltz time, and The Living End, which is a pretty little Celtic-ish piano ballad. Calling From the Wild is also pretty kickass but has some questionable melodic and spoken word choices. Overall, this one does not do much for me. It feels half hollow, like it’s trying far too hard to be interesting, and half self-indulgent, as do all of Tarja’s works. The dark tonality is still alive and kicking, but the songs are getting less memorable. C+
In The Raw (2019)
Tarja hits a home run on her latest release, featuring her most consistently strong songs yet. Opening number Dead Promises has a cool power metal riff and a hooky chorus. It also features Bjorn Strid from Soilwork, who adds a nice dimension to the song even if he doesn’t blend very well with Tarja. Goodbye Stranger is bluesy, groove metal with awesome layered vocals. Not sure why Cristina Scabbia is here (other than marketing), but she sounds fine. The next two tracks are also great: Tears in Rain is a solid, melodic radio metal tune and Railroads a mid-tempo rocker with some really interesting vocals, a simplistically catchy keyboard riff, and a big semi-operatic chorus. There’s also really nice string work on the latter. Capping off “side 1” is You and I: a traditional piano ballad. It’s nice in an Adele sort of way, but hearing Tarja singing a straightforward love song feels very strange.
The middle of the album certainly dips with The Golden Chamber, a 7 minute exercise in making an operatic Enya song. It is the first real superfluous track here. Spirits of the Sea brings the heaviness back a bit, but ultimately plods along and drags on forever. Just when it seems like all is lost, Silent Masquerade brings us back to life with a killer epic featuring the always wonderful Tommy Karevik. It’s a great tune, but the intro and outro narration are obnoxious, as is the weird weeping halfway through the track. Serene dives back into heavy riffs and big vocal hooks and closer Shadow Play is phenomenal, the only song in Tarja’s catalogue to hit 7 minutes and not feel overbearing. It’s a showstopper.
On the vocal side, Tarja holds up well but it definitely sounds like her range is shrinking. Most of these songs feature more traditionally “rock” style vocals, leaving the operatics for heavily layered or produced sections. Despite a couple weaker tracks, this is an expertly sequenced album. The track flow is pretty much perfect. A
Classical/Holiday releases:
Henkäys ikuisuudesta (2006)
A very pretty collection of lighter fare sung mostly in Finnish that allows enough musical space for us to hear all of Tarja’s voice. The single, You Would Have Loved This, is a very touching tune. The stripped down piano cover of Walking in the Air feels a bit pointless, though. I may not know what Tarja is singing about and the album is far too long with little change in dynamics, but I guess this is a pleasant enough listen for a cold Christmastime day. C+
Ave Maria - En Plein Air (2015)
So, we’ve talked a lot about a lack of self-editing and an overwhelming air of smothering pretentiousness, right? Well, here’s a full fucking feast of it. It’s literally one song, 12 different versions of Ave Maria (the Latin prayer sung over a slightly modified version of Bach’s Prelude No. 1). Not only is this a ridiculous listening experience, she already recorded the song on her first album! This is an audio experiment, not an album. D
From Spirits and Ghosts (Score for a Dark Christmas) (2017)
Tarja brings the creepy on this lark of a Christmas record. The conceit is simple: it’s Christmas songs with a gothic twist. At times, this record is very successful in fulfilling that promise. Deck the Halls is legitimately nightmare-inducing and sounds like the ghosts of dead children returning from the grave to shove coal down your throat. We Wish You a Merry Christmas could be a demonic dirge lead by Mrs. Krampus as she steals your soul. I never thought I could be so terrified by figgy pudding. Some songs are less successful, such as the stunning but odd choice of Amazing Grace and the choice to turn Feliz Navidad into a six minute ballad. Sole original track Together is fine enough, but also lifts its vocal intro from Nightwish’s Our Decades in the Sun.
The schtick gets old over the course of 50 minutes, though. As with all things Tarja it is overindulgent. Virtually every track goes from an elongated intro of sub-audible 808 hits, spooky minimalist piano, and drawn out melodies to a climax of cinematic, speaker-shredding orchestral bombast. A few of these songs will be added to my Christmas playlist, the rest of this album will drift away into the blackened snow. B-
NIGHTWISH NEW ALBUM COMING OUT 2024
As the ‘Human :ll: Nature - World Tour’ is drawing to a close, we feel now is the time to tell you of our plans for the next phase in our journey.
After the planned shows for June 2023 we will be “hanging up our spurs” for an indeterminate time, as far as live concert performances go, and won’t be touring the next album.
The reasons for this decision are personal, but, we all agree, vital to the wellbeing and future of the band. Be assured that we still love working together, and this decision has nothing to do with Floor`s pregnancy or our other individual projects.
However, an album of 12 new songs will see bright daylight in 2024, as will 3 music videos! The band is positively hyped beyond words over this new upcoming musical adventure.
Stay tuned for updates from our legendary Nightwish band camp & studio this summer!
-Tuomas, Floor, Emppu, Troy, Kai & Jukkis
As the ‘Human :ll: Nature - World Tour’ is drawing to a close, we feel now is the time to tell you of our plans for the next phase in our journey.
After the planned shows for June 2023 we will be “hanging up our spurs” for an indeterminate time, as far as live concert performances go, and won’t be touring the next album.
The reasons for this decision are personal, but, we all agree, vital to the wellbeing and future of the band. Be assured that we still love working together, and this decision has nothing to do with Floor`s pregnancy or our other individual projects.
However, an album of 12 new songs will see bright daylight in 2024, as will 3 music videos! The band is positively hyped beyond words over this new upcoming musical adventure.
Stay tuned for updates from our legendary Nightwish band camp & studio this summer!
-Tuomas, Floor, Emppu, Troy, Kai & Jukkis
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
Such a weird statement. “We’re releasing a new album, but you won’t get to see it live, and we don’t know when we’ll play live again. And oh, this definitely has nothing to do with our lead singer being pregnant with her second child.”
Like, are they ever going to tour again? They’re just taking a year or two break from it? If so, why even make this statement now? Of course it has to do with Floor’s family, whether that’s the sole reason or not.
IDK
I’m excited for a new album, this is just such a bizarre press release.
Like, are they ever going to tour again? They’re just taking a year or two break from it? If so, why even make this statement now? Of course it has to do with Floor’s family, whether that’s the sole reason or not.
IDK
I’m excited for a new album, this is just such a bizarre press release.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
Their whole Floor era career is just so disappointing. They get Floor in the band, the most versatile singer they've had, and release albums with less singing than ever and a lack of focus on catchiness. Then they lose Marko and have now decided to (at least temporarily) be a studio band, even though Floor is the absolute best live performer they've ever had.Yeah, very odd. But fuck it, there’s nothing wrong with being a studio band. The Beatles released their best work after they stopped touring.
Tuomas "King of Weird Fucking Decisions" Holopainen, indeed.
Kalata
Out of the Silent Planet
Weird. Why release a new album when you're not going to tour for it and you don't even know when you're going to tour again? In terms of touring, a band that is probably in its prime (Floor!). I'm sorry to say it, but since their latest album and the departure of Marko, I'm not excited for their albums anymore.
Btw, I'm starting to see a trend nowadays - every band releases albums with more than 10 songs on them, usually 12 songs; well, not Maiden.
Btw, I'm starting to see a trend nowadays - every band releases albums with more than 10 songs on them, usually 12 songs; well, not Maiden.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
Didn't the last press statement I read from them make the Suspiciously Specific Denial that Marco absolutely, surely, totally, most definitely wasn't leaving because Tuomas is a git?