Judas Priest Discography Discussion (part 2 starting page 20)

Following Rob Halford's departure after the release of Painkiller, Judas Priest took an extended hiatus. The future of the band was very unclear, other members weren't even completely sure if Halford was actually leaving Priest, or just taking a break to do a side project. This period however brought a slew of new Priest related projects. This was a change of pace for the Priest camp, as none of the current members had done side projects while in Priest before, and former members (with some exceptions) tended to remain quiet after departing from Priest.

So even though the band was inactive for most of the decade, there is still plenty of music from this period to check out. It's quite the variety too; nothing here sounds too much like Priest and every album sounds quite different. While I personally don't listen to any of these albums very often and don't consider any of them to be quite up to Judas Priest's standards, they're all still worth listening to and mostly pretty good. And of course they're a vital part of the band's history and may give insight to how the band's sound progressed.
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Fight - War of Words/A Small Deadly Space (1993/95)

Rob Halford's Fight project is easily the most well known and loved project from this time. Almost immediately after officially leaving Priest, Halford immediately got to work on a new metal band. This new lineup featured Scott Travis on drums, who was able to split duties between Judas Priest, Fight, and Racer X. Although by the time Judas Priest finally got to work on a new album, Fight had long been disbanded. This new band featured a classic metal sound similar to what Halford was doing with Priest, but with a modern twist. A similar approach to the one that was taken on Painkiller, but with different influences. While Painkiller was largely influenced by the thrash metal scene of the late 80s/early 90s, Fight mainly took influence from the groove metal of bands such as Pantera. Later on they would also take influence from grunge acts such as Alice In Chains.

The first album, War of Words, is a very strong set of songs that certainly fills the void created by the lack of Priest material following Painkiller. Halford takes a similar singing style and the music has a lot of similarities to the Priest sound. Of course it isn't a Priest album and it certainly doesn't achieve the greatness of Priest, but it's still worth listening to. It has received quite a bit of praise from Priest fans as well, many people consider it a worthy successor to Priest.

The followup, Small Deadly Space, is not quite as great. A lot of the songs get pretty same-y and it doesn't really live up to the standard of the first album. It's also not quite as heavy and seems to take even a grunge influence at times. It's not a bad album either though and Halford still sounds good on it. There are some great tracks on it too and I definitely at least recommend it to anyway who likes Halford, it's not much of a departure from the Priest sound and it's at least enjoyable.

I have to admit I'm not a huge fan of either of these albums, while both have good material, nne of it is anywhere near as good as what Halford did with Priest. To me, it sounds like him trying to recapture old glories. A lot of it sounds kinda generic and I have a hard time sitting through entire albums without getting bored. I can enjoy it in small doses though and I definitely recommend at least War of Words since chances are you'll at least enjoy it if you like Halford.
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Winters Bane - Heart of a Killer (1993)

Now Tim “Ripper” Owens was chosen to front Judas Priest because the band heard his Priest tribute band. What many people don’t know, is that this Priest tribute was actually the 2nd half of a Winter’s Bane concert set. Owen’s second band (the first being the short lived Brainicde) had unique way of playing concerts. They would begin as Winter’s Bane playing a full set of original music, then they’d take a quick break that also functioned as a wardrobe change in order for them to take the stage as the Judas Priest tribute band: British Steel.

Owens really doesn’t get that much credit, you could make a case for him being the unluckiest Metal singer, having to face the backlash of replacing two juggernauts and not really finding great success on his own. And largely I’d agree that his post Priest work is pretty bad, he did make music before joining Priest.

Heart of a Killer is a great album. Musically you can really hear the Judas Priest influence, at times it kinda has a Jugulator vibe even. The clean guitar sounds on this album reminds me of the guitar sound on Jugulator. Kind of interesting, since Ripper wasn’t involved in the writing of that album and I’m not sure if the guys in Priest listened to this. It’s a very classic sounding metal album and if you’re into Priest there really isn’t any reason not to enjoy this.

The first 6 songs are also tied together lyrically, telling the story of a Judge who is given a heart transplant, from a murderer he sentenced to death. Strange concept, but the sense of unity it gives those songs is pretty cool. The only downfall is that the final four songs seem tacked on as a result. This isn’t too much of an issue though as these 4 songs are still really good.

Honestly, if I was to recommend one album out of the ones I’ve talked about, it’d be this one. Ripper sounds great on it too, say what you will about the guy but he’s a fantastic singer. I wouldn’t really consider him a Halford clone either, at least on this album. He really has his own voice I think.

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Glenn Tipton - Baptizm of Fire (1997)

The real shocker that came out of Judas Priest’s hiatus was a Glenn Tipton solo album that features him on vocals. Now plenty of established band’s instrumentalists had done solo albums featuring themselves on lead vocals, it was almost a trend in the 90s, but most of these people (such as Dave Grohl, Nuno Bettencourt, Adrian Smith did this years earlier with ASAP) had already showcased their lead vocal talents in the band before. Be it lead vocals in a song (even if a B side) or a prominent backing vocals spot. However, fans had never gotten a good listen to Tipton’s voice. The most we got to hear from him in Priest was the odd gang vocal in a chorus. So, hearing him sing after all these years is quite a shock.

Tipton has a very rough sounding voice with a surprisingly large amount of character. There are a plethora of moments on this record where you can really hear that singing is definitely not something he does often, but he gets the job done. His vocals are really good and they fit the songs too. I hear a lot of tongue-in-cheek in the sound of this album, it’s meant to be fun and not taken with the seriousness that the dark records like Painkiller and Jugulator command. You can tell Tipton is having the time of his life with this album.

It’s very eccentric too. You get everything from face smashing riffs, to neo classical guitar solos, to Rolling Stones covers, to sexually driven rockers. It’s a bit all over the place and doesn’t really have any flow, but that doesn’t really take away from the songs themselves. Aside from the god awful Paint It Black rendition, all of the songs are strong in their own right.

The guitar playing is out of this world too. Some of his best guitar work is on this album; you should listen to it for that alone. He’s got some stellar riffs and some of his best and most fluent guitar solos. I love his tone on the album too, I think his guitar sound is better than on a lot of Priest albums.

Tipton also hired quite the list of all stars for this album. He has quite a few musicians appearing on various tracks, not keeping a static lineup throughout. Robert Trujillio, Bill Sheehan, John Entwistle, the late great Cozy Powell, and Brooks Wackerman are some of the great names included on this disc. Although their playing never really get any sort of spotlight. I understand why this was done, since the focus of this album is really on the guitar, but I really wish he could’ve done some collaborations beyond hiring these guys to basically fill the roles of session musicians. I don’t know about his drumming abilities, but Glenn could’ve very well played the bass parts himself (he does play bass on a track anyway).

This is just a minor gripe on an otherwise solid album though. I’m sure the sheer interest of hearing a Glenn Tipton solo album will attract plenty of people who may have not heard this before, and the novelty of it really doesn’t cover up subpar material, the songs are really quite strong here.

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2wo - Voyeurs (1998)

Voyeurs is easily the strangest album on this list and even though it actually came out after Jugulator, this is really my only chance to talk about it. 2wo was conceived as a collaboration between Rob Halford and the then unknown John 5, who was still known as John Lowery. The group was signed to Trent Reznor’s record label, who was also given an executive producer credit. Compared to his earlier work, Halford’s influence seems to be the smallest here compared to John 5 and Trent Reznor, knowing what they have done. You really don’t hear much of Halford’s vocal talents either, he keeps his vocals in the midrange and really sings in a reserved style. This is a huge departure to his shrieks and aggressive approach to singing that can be heard on Painkiller and the Fight albums, but it fits this style quite well.

This is very much Halford’s Skunkworks, if you want to look at it that way. A collaboration between musicians who are really on a different plane musically creating a new group with a singer who seems to be trying to reinvent himself. It’s cool hearing Halford going outside of his comfort zone, especially after carving out a niche for himself after 20 odd years, you gotta give the man credit for that.

The album ain’t bad either. Personally I’ve never been able to get into that industrial Metal type sound and John 5 isn’t one of my favorite guitarists, so honestly I wouldn’t have a reason to listen to it if Halford wasn’t on it. I do like his singing on this album though, he does a great job adapting to the style. And some of it is certainly good, if you like industrial metal at all you’ll definitely enjoy this album. Even worth checking out if you want to hear Halford in a very different setting.

Overall I wouldn’t call this a failed experiment, anyone is going to have a hard time selling something out of left field after targeting a specific audience for their entire career. For what Halford and John 5 were trying to do, they did a good job. Give it a try at least, you might enjoy it.

 
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Nice work Mosh.
My knowledge of this material is sketchy at best.
I'll give it a listen when I get home.
 
Brilliant work covering a massive ground of Priest history. Thank you Mosh! Giving information and at the same time rating the material is a formidable task. Furthermore, as far as I've checked these albums out I would agree 98% with what you say.

I've tried listening to Ministry and Nine Inch Nails, but... techno is techno even if it's "industrial". Still, I do respect Halford for doing "2wo", especially as it was around this time he publicly revealed that he is gay. An honest and brave choice, in my opinion. I agree that the idea behind 2wo is interesting, but, as you implied also, the music doesn't really inspire me.

Fight's War of Words seems to be loved by many, and if you want something heavy and sligthly Pantera-esque (or Exhorder-like as many suggest Exhorder created the Groove Metal-sound), you won't be disappointed. "Into the Pit" and "Nailed to the Gun" sound especially good on Live Insurrection (2001). However, not my favourite album, as Mosh mentioned, the songs and especially the bare-sounding arrangements tend to sound boring in larger doses. Then again, I'm not a big fan of groove metal.

Winters Bane I haven't heard, but based on Jugulator and Demolition, Tim Owens can definitely sing! His sound is definitely different, especially in mid-range, and yet Owens pulls off those wails effortlessly and as high as Rob. Technically he might be even better than Halford at the time (Rob is older and therefore not in is prime, hasn't been for a long time). Still, I prefer Rob. It's part nostalgia for his classic history with the band, part respect for him as a person and the choices he has made. Tim Owens I label as a substitute for a Metal God, which is unfair, I must admit.

Baptizm of Fire I haven't listened to extensively, but I don't quite agree with "Some of his best guitar work is on this album; you should listen to it for that alone. He’s got some stellar riffs and some of his best and most fluent guitar solos." I am not saying the guitar work isn't good, because it is. But Tipton's best? Now, that's another matter. Remember that solo on Beyond the Realms of Death? The guitar tone on Painkiller? That driving riff on Freewheel Burning? In my opinion, nothing on Baptizm of Fire come close to that, (even if half the credit on Priest's guitars would go/goes to K.K.).

But I'm being too pedantic - the point is to get people to listen to these interesting quality releases, and choose for themselves. Credit to whom credit is due... Thank you Mosh, yet again!
 
Winter's Bane :edmetal:

Owens one of the "power metal" singers who doesn't suck and whose voice lends itself extremely well to the heavier side of power metal! or dark power metal if you will ;)
 
As I've understood, European power metal is pretty uplifting, even flamboyant (bands like Gamma Ray) whereas the American power metal tends to have more speed metal in it, slightly more down to earth (bands like Agent Steel) Out of these two I guess the American variety would be slightly closer to Priest's Stained Class-sound and if so, I would prefer it. This is obviously a huge generalisation, though. Power metal fans can correct me if (and when?) I am wrong.

P.S. I guess Dragonforce's Through the Fire and Flames would sum up what I mean with being flamboyant or "Epic":p
 
I've seen Winter's Bane labeled as power metal several times now. I don't hear it though, it really doesn't have any of the traits I hear in bands like Helloween and Gamma Ray. This is good though, because that also means it doesn't have any of the things that makes Power Metal annoy me. It's much closer to Iced Earth or Judas Priest.
 
That's also why I had to add the "dark" to power metal, it is definitely like Ashes said, the American version of that genre and not the European :)
 
The few Dragonforce songs that I do have in my catalogue of music are labelled under "Wank Metal"

Wank Metal sums it up pretty well. The drums are always really fast and tend to have the same beat and the guitar solos are just 2 minutes of ridiculous whammy and Harmonizer tricks. There's just too much of everything. But to anyone who might enjoy Dragonforce, I respect your opinion :p.
 
Basiucally I've found with Dragonforce is that their verses are play as fast as you can, the pre chorus is the most melodic and slowest overall, and the chorus is power chords exclusively. Don't forget the random guitar "solos" at any given point, so the 37 solos tag I also give them is only a slight exaggeration. It also means that basically all of their songs are 7 mins+ when they really could be 4 or 5.

That new Dragonforce song that got put on youtube a couple weeks ago was actually a decent speed metal track, with some of the above not applicable to that track.
 
To be fair, most metal uses power chords exclusively.
 
Still want to get Baptism. If only for having the late Entwhistle and Powell on it. And I know the title track which is pretty cool.

 
Good song. Should have been in the instrumentals game.

Technically it does have words in it, not a lot, but there are some.

Just in case you aren't fully aware, Entwistle is only on one track of Baptizm, originally Tipton wanted to release an album with just Entwistle/Powell but the record company preferred something different so he made Baptizm, the original intended album was the one released later after their deaths - Edge of the World.

EDIT: Quote from Edge's booklet
Back in '96 when I approached Atlantic regarding my first solo album, the majoirty of the songs featured Cozy Powell on drums and John Entwistle on bass guitar. The label liked the material but suggested that the line up was a little "old school" and that I should work with some younger musicians and blend the new tracks in to give the album a more modern feel. This I did as I had very little choice at the time and in all honesty a very good album emerged which became my first release - "Baptizm of Fire". Deep down inside I knew that this first batch of songs included some of the finest playing from two of the most talented and legendary musicians that I have ever worked with. Rhino/Warners heard the tracks and agreed that this album had to see the light of day!! As Priest weren't active at the time, it was our intention to tour at some point as a three piece but fate played a hand and tragically both Cozy and John are no longer with us. Thsi album is a tribute to their unique styles and skills and a small part of the immense legacy they have left behind which will continue to inspire people all over the world for many years to come.
 
The collaborations on Baptizm are honestly kinda disappointing. When you see the list of big names on the album you'd think they'd be implemented a bit better and given more spotlight, but honestly if I didn't know better I'd just think it was the same people playing on every track. Anything that isn't guitar or vocals takes a serious backseat.
 
Summertime may have cooled some interest in this thread, but I would like to see more comment on Painkiller from regular contributors: @Forostar, @Saapanael, @Sara and maybe a few others, what say you?
Of course, I'm one of the guilty, so better late than never:
  • If Priest hadn't recorded Painkiller (the song) the band would not get near the respect it gets from true metalheads. This song made it like Parental Guidance and Johnny B. Goode never happened, which is quite an achievement. Great song, but I don't rate it as highly as most do. It personifies metal, but it's a bit overlong, IMO.
  • Scott Travis is amazing and is the second most important change the band made going into recording.
  • The most important was Chris Tsangarides. Painkiller sounds amazing — crisp, clear and heavy. As far as I am concerned some of the best-recorded albums ever came out in the early '90s and this is one of them
  • Mosh nailed how perfectly Hell Patrol fills the second slot on the album. Such a relentless track, yet perfectly constructed. Textbook Priest.
  • I generally prefer more melodic songs than All Guns Blazing, but the relentless energy makes up for what the song lacks in that department. I don't listen to it much outside the context of the album, but it's a nasty piece of work and really cements the character of the album.
  • Travis and Tsangarides really show their worth on Leather Rebel. Composition-wise, it isn't a huge departure from, say, Private Property. But the aggressive arrangement really elevates it. Rob is spot on here.
  • Priest has a few songs in the back half of its career that hit all the right metal checkmarks, but come across as rather perfunctory "here's-the-one-for-the-headbangers" songs. Metal Meltdown is a perfect example. I find it kind of silly.
  • They make up for the album's low point with its best song. Nightcrawler is genuinely piss-your-pants, lock-the-bedroom-door creepy, and one the best things they ever recorded. Everything works — performances, composition, arrangement, production. Phenomenal song.
  • Between The Hammer and the Anvil is essential to the record. Heavy, but a little smoother than anything that came up to this point, it's got a nice feel to it and it creates some breathing space.
  • Just realizing that I haven't noticed a song where the solos are the high point, a real contrast from the previous two albums. It's not that the solos are subpar, not at all. It's just that the quality of the songs has risen to the same level.
  • Only on Painkiller would Touch of Evil be considered a ballad. Great melody over a cool power chord sequence in a mid-tempo setting. The title track is Rob's most amazing performance on this record, but this is his best singing. Irresistible chorus.
  • One Shot At Glory is probably my second favourite track after Night Crawler. I hear echoes of that great Blood Red Skies atmosphere in the melodies. Superior chorus, nice solos and a great way to finish up the album.

Painkiller is probably not on my top 10 album list, or my favourite Priest album. But I'm sure it's in my top 50 albums and is one of my favourite Priest albums.
I can certainly understand why someone would call it the best metal album of time.
 
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