Europeans are stupid

I

IronDuke

Ancient Mariner
Well, not exactly, but it got your attention. It turns out that the majority of Europeans are just as ignorant of the world around them as the Americans they stereotypically ridicule.
Maybe studies like this, over time, will stop the arrogance and disdain many Americans experience from their cousins across the pond....but probably not. Old habits die hard.

From Yahoo News:

Tue Oct 10, 12:34 PM ET

BRUSSELS (AFP) - Only around one in five Europeans and fewer than one in 10 Britons know that the EU has 25 member countries, according to a survey released by the
European Commission.
ADVERTISEMENT

The Eurobarometer survey said Tuesday that, on average, 23 percent of Europeans know the EU has comprised 25 countries since 10 mainly ex-communist states joined the bloc in May 2004.

Based on responses from around 1,000 people in each country from May 5 to June 11, 52 percent of respondents believed the Union has fewer than 25 members, five percent believe it has more and 20 percent had no opinion.

Citizens in only three countries scored 50 percent or more. Cypriots were top scorers with 58 percent and Slovenians had 51 percent, while exactly one in two residents of the tiny duchy of Luxembourg knew the right number.

Britons had the worst score: just eight percent knew the answer.

Given that few Europeans knew the right number of member countries, they obviously had difficulty saying who might be preparing to join soon.

Bulgaria (25 percent) and Romania (29 percent) are due to become members of the rich European club on January 1 and figured high up the list.

But Turkey, which has begun accession talks expected to take at least a decade and has no guarantee of membership, easily topped the list, with 42 percent of Europeans saying it was preparing to join.

10 percent thought new member Poland was about to take its place in the EU's ranks and nine percent thought that Hungary was a candidate.


My take: America has about 5% of the world's population. Laws of averages dicate that this means 95% of the world's idiots live elsewhere.
 
IronDuke said:
My take: America has about 5% of the world's population. Laws of averages dicate that this means 95% of the world's idiots live elsewhere.
Click to expand...

That's pretty negative Duke.  I never thought you'd think all Americans are idiots... or is this a Freudian slip?
 
What I mean to imply, my Mongol Warlord friend, is that since America has 5% of the world's population it also should have about 5% of the world's idiots. China has 15% or the world's population, so they should have 15% of the idiots, etc.

On reading that over, it seems like I implied that everyone is an idiot. I don't mean that, although there are times when I'm not so sure...
 
Right.  :ok: I agree with that addition.  I think that this part of the sentence "it also should have about 5% of the world's idiots" was necessary.  I wasn't sure if this was just left out by accident and therefore gave the wrong impression or if you just wanted to see if the readers were paying attention  ;).  I did not actually think that you wanted to imply that all Americans were stupid because I know I have read some of your posts that have defended Americans ('Pearl Harbor' - no 'u' incident that defended their way of spelling, for example).

By the way, I only let my inner Genghis Khan come out when I'm upset  :ninja: and so far I've been able to soothe the beast by constantly praying to Adrian Smith  :D.
 
well I'll be damned... I thought the EU had 23 countries! I must be an ignorant idiot :(
 
If I may take this further...
It is interesting to note that so many countries are wishing to become part of the EU and most of western Europe has joined with the exception of Norway and Switzerland.

Norwegians have given the following reasons for not joining the EU:
a) Surrender of political sovereignty
b) Lack of democracy in the EU
c) Reduction in economic self-determination
d) Threat to self-sufficiency
e) Threat to cultural identity
f) Additional layer of government and bureaucracy

Norwegians have given the following reasons why joining the EU would prove to be a good idea:
a) International cooperation to preserve peace
b) Influence over decisions that affect Norway
c) Few additional duties
d) Participation in an emerging political bloc
e) Reduction in subsidies, cheaper food and alcohol

Source is Wikipedia

I wonder if the people on this BB would agree with the above assessment?.  It definitely seems like a double-edged sword.  In many respects it may be a new wave of a global economy or if the fears of Norwegians are correct another form of "imperialism" -- at least that's the way it sounds to me when I read the negatives.  I wonder if it would be correct to say that multi-national corporations like McDonalds would have an even easier time in spreading their chains under the EU?  Do the benefits outweight the shortcomings?  Should non-European countries like Marocco be allowed to join if their human rights record has cleaned up? I thought these were pretty interesting questions as I was researching.  What do you guys/gals think?  I live in Canada, so my first-hand experiences with the EU are nil, which means I'll leave the European members of this BB to provide a genuine answer.  I hope this is taken seriously, as this post was definitely written with care and with a generous time invested. 

To Duke: I'm sorry if I'm taking the reins of your thread, mate!  Cheers!
 
I don't know how prominently the politics of the EU figures in a typical European's daily life. But in their defense, consider:
1. The EU is a recent innovation, historically speaking.
2. The number of members has been changing since it started.
3. The number of members isn't done changing yet.

You can't really compare this to an American knowing how many states there are[sup]1[/sup]. It's been 50 states for somewhere around 50 years; the majority of the US population never lived when it was another number, and the rest have had five decades to learn it. Also, the number of states is highly unlikely to ever increase.

So as an American, I wouldn't ridicule a European for not knowing the right answer about the EU. Besides, if we want them to stop ridiculing us, then we ought to act maturely towards them in the first place and hope to lead by example[sup]2[/sup].


[sup]1[/sup]I am aware, Mr. Duke, that you didn't make this specific comparison. I'm only bringing it up because it is the most appropriate comparison for Americans, and you did mention comparisons to Americans.

[sup]2[/sup]And getting chickenhawk oil-hungry warmongering dummies out of Washington might help too.
 
Yeah, Europeans definitely have stupid people among them, I live there. I consider myself being less stupid than others (hehe, what a confidence), but I'm an ignorant too because I do not know the country count in EU. I quite do not like EU as it seems countries must obey to what the EU leaders come with (sometimes quite stupid things - I recall some problems with our traditional foods, but I'm not sure). We have so many problems here (the Czech Republic) with our politicians who messed what they could that I feel no need to be interested in EU. We are even unable to switch from crowns to euro due to our national debt. And our politicians say prices for several commodities should be risen to levels of EU states, but who will then rise our salaries?

But EU has its advantages. Some projects are supported by money coming from EU and would be doomed without it (I've been working for a language school for deaf people which I think is this case). Travelling is simplified, crossing borders almost without stop. People can work in a different country with all advantages possible.

I think people are mostly afraid of losing their identity, but I think there is no problem to keep national traditions and be in the EU at the same time. There is only one problem - people :) It is logical that every country wants some advantages, but also have to count with rights of the others - and, you know, I think some of our representatives are not good enough to care for our interests in the big EU family (even have problems speaking foreign languages :) - or better smile would be :-(
 
I agree that we Europeans might be stupid at times, but when it comes to the EU I think it's mostly the countries in the center (Italy, Germany, France, Spain, Belgium) that "see" it on a daily basis. In Sweden we mostly hear about the EU when the media decides to tell us of another stupid regulation decided in Brussels (the degree of bend in a banana, for example :p). I know that a lot of our daily lives are influenced by EU rules and regulations, but most of us are not aware of it. About 50 % of the Swedish population don't want us to be a member state (some politicians even want us to leave the union) and the pc thing here is to be critical. Thus, we only hear about the drawbacks of membership.

For us Swedes, some prices have dropped since we joined, just as promised. Mainly food, which is a good thing. Some important projects, like efforts to stop racism and segregation, have been funded partly or wholly by EU funds, just as many other worthy projects. Swedish farmers get some funding, just as a lot of farmers all over the union and so on and so forth. But in my everyday life I don't really consider the EU a part of my life.

The reasons given for Norway's joining/not joining are valid, especially
a) Surrender of political sovereignty
Click to expand...
To some extent, yes. Some decisions are made on a national level, some aren't.
b) Lack of democracy in the EU
Click to expand...
I'm not sure it's a lack of democracy, as much as a lack of involvement. The transparency have become better the last few years, but it's up to me to take part of what's going on just as on a national level and many people can't be bothered. It's easier to bitch about the lack of democracy that to try to do something about it.
c) Reduction in economic self-determination
Click to expand...
Valid, but to an extent a good thing. Inflation must be kept down if you want to be part of the economic co-operation, and for Sweden that has been a good thing the last 5-10 years.
d) Threat to self-sufficiency
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if any country is very self-sufficient today? If that's the case, what's the problem? Norway produces oil, maybe they don't want to share it with the rest of Europe, but they wouldn't be asked to give it away for nothing...

The threat to cultural identity is cr@p, in my not-so-humble opinion (when it comes to my opinions, they may be wrong but not humble :p). The EU claims that national character must be preserved (which is why we in Sweden still are allowed to have wet snuff (snus) but can't export it to other countries) and the cultural identity isn't very nationally specific anymore anyway - at least I don't see it like that. I honestly think my identity as European - as opposed to Asian or American - is stronger than my identity as Swedish as opposed to Danish, Norweigan or German. But maybe that's just me?
 
IronDuke said:
What I mean to imply, my Mongol Warlord friend, is that since America has 5% of the world's population it also should have about 5% of the world's idiots. China has 15% or the world's population, so they should have 15% of the idiots, etc.
Click to expand...
It might not be wrong if you assume that stupidity is randomly distributed over the world. However, I must admit I've got some doubts when reading these type of post...  ::)
 
Well, here in Serbia the EU is a BIG issue, to say at least. Meeting the standards and introducing european laws, along with all other conditions is a constant topic in all the papers and tv shows dealing with politics. Almost all
Code:
political parties have becoming a member of the EU, as one of their most important goals(and they always tell you date as well, like "We'll be in the union before 2010, and that's a promise." But there are also parties that are against Europe and western world all together. Week ago a new modern constitution was proposed and elections for it are scheduled for 28. and 29. of this month. And in december we'll most probably have both parlamental and presidential elections. I'm hoping for a totally democratic government this time. This will be a important year for us.
I don't think Turkey will be in the EU anytime soon. I think many politicians will say they have nothing against it, to gain some points for their cosmopolitan and liberal views. But imo, deep inside they are against Turkey becoming a member(it's a European club, although they won't admit it). I mean if I was the president of Serbia, and Turkey becomes a member before my country I would saw it as an unforgivable insult and a proof that EU is all about money and big corporations getting their hands on new markets.
I would love to be in the union, be able to travel with ease, and maybe the EU is a step forward for all Europeans. I don't think losing national identity is an issue. I see EU as a way for Europeans to share their cultures among them, without losing identity.
 
This thread is naming most of the pros and cons of the European Union. Now, before I get started, let me say that I am a huge supporter of the EU. I support its current approach of being a supranational community of common domestic interests (most of which I support as well), and I support its long-term goal of becoming the "United States Of Europe" (as was the key slogan a while ago). I think Europe is on the right path, and I think it can continure on it.

Now, I am the first to admit that there are big problems with the EU. One is the fact that it can't win the hearts of its residents. This is mostly due to its lack of transparency. The bitter irony is that this was an argument for all those who voted against the constitution, although the constitution is meant to improve precisely on that point. Here we see another big problem: Disastrous publicity. Most people don't even know what the EU is about. Education about the EU is limited to higher schools, so most people see it as a sort of club for the elite. It is all about taxes and money. I have talked to people who complained that thanks to the EU, "all the Poles are coming here and taking our jobs". This is another bitter irony, because Poland joined the EU precisely to fight this sort of thing. Unfortunately, as it is now, wage and social dumping are a lot easier, and will probably be very easy for quite a while, at least until all countries meet the same standards in service regulations, social (in)security, and general living quality. But, believe it or not, this is one of the primary missions of the EU.
Then, we are faced with overblown bureaucracy. As I see it, this sort of thing decreases credibility for a number of reasons. One of them is that this leads to a ridiculous fuss about petty things such as a missing signature. These seem like small nuisances, but they really sum up quite fast. What is even worse is that such a huge bureaucratic machine makes simple processes take ages, and thus makes people question if those who initiate the process really want it.

Finally, there are ideological problems. Any nationalist is against the EU because it means giving up national sovereignity. All I can say is tough luck. The countries of Europe had this sovereignity, and it led to two world wars. Seriously, nationalism has shown very much bad coming from it and only little good.

I completely agree with Urizen when he says

I don't think losing national identity is an issue. I see EU as a way for Europeans to share their cultures among them, without losing identity.
Click to expand...

Nobody says that the EU means giving up cultural identity. The motto of the EU is United in diversity. I know it is very difficult to achieve, for too many reasons to mention (one I forgot is the debate about representation vs influence in the parliament). But I don't think it is impossible to do. And let's not forget that the EU has already been very successful. Countries like Germany or Italy, who were not exactly peaceful and supportive of human rights, have changed completely due to European pressure (which really is only a primitive form of what later became the EU); I firmly believe this can also be applied to Serbia or Turkey.
 
First, I have to point out that there's a difference between stupidity and ignorance. In this case, I would term Europeans as just plain ignorant, rather than stupid. Figuring out how many member states the EU has doesn't require a very high IQ, all you need to do is google it. The fact that so many Europeans have no idea just shows a complete lack of interest. The same goes for Americans, unfortunately we Europeans tend to categorize them as stupid simply because the majority of Americans seem to lack even the rudiments of common knowledge, which just means Americans are more ignorant (but not necessarily more stupid, unless stupid means too silly to get off your lazy arse and educate yourself :innocent:).

On the subject of Norway, I think they're being smart because they realize that since they are a rich country they would not get any economic benefits from the EU and most likely would be obliged to help the weak economies of the new member countries. This means Norway loses the profits from their oil. Norway wisely says: no way! :down:
 
Blah blah blah. Europe is becomming more like the US every day.

The 13 states started off as a loose coalition united in their common interests; look how the role of the Union government evolved in the next century - it transformed 13 (and more) small, theoretically sovereign states into one nation. This process will take much longer with Europe, of course, due to linguistic and historic differences, but it will come.
Integrated economy, integrated currency, integrated law codes, the next big step is a single military force, with the  current armed forces of each country being reduced to the status of National Guards.

Natalie, I agree with you re: Norway. It makes no sense for them right now. They'll reap the benefits of their oil reserves until it's all gone, and then apply for EU membership. It's a win-win situation for them


This, by the way, is s far from the riginal purpose of the thread that I feel like banging my head on a desk.
 
I never really thought of it that way. Now that you mention it, I see an alarming similarity between the formation of the U.S. and the EU. Who says history doesn't repeat itself? ::)

Seriously though, I'm not sure I like the direction inwhich the EU is heading. Unity in diversity is all very fine and good, but if we look at the U.S. I don't see a whole lot of diversity there (as compared to Europe, don't get me wrong), nor a whole lot of unity for that matter. Imagine a Europe where everyone speaks 'european' or something? What a disaster for our cultural heritage. I'm not a nationalist, but I do believe that everytime a language dies, a culture dies, and this is not desirable, especially not in Europe, where there are so many diverse cultures in such a small area. The EU should stick to being an economic organization (frankly, without the EU, individual countries in Europe don't have much bargaining power) and should stop with all this nonsense about a single joined military and an EU anthem, and whatever-else they may be planning. Taking the EU beyond an economic organization while holding on to its diversity would be a good idea if it weren't so unrealistic.

Sorry IronDuke, this thread is probably not going in the direction you intended it to go and this post probably isn't making things any better. :(
 
Actually, Duke has been posting on this board long enough to know that discussions tend to go into different directions here.
 
IronDuke said:
Blah blah blah. Europe is becomming more like the US every day.
Click to expand...
However, CORSICA will never surrender!  :ninja:

corsica.gif
 
Perun: Good and insightful post, as usual.

Iron Duke:
This, by the way, is s far from the riginal purpose of the thread that I feel like banging my head on a desk.
Click to expand...
Don't. It makes such ugly holes in the desk :p

I'm not sure where you wanted this post to go, Iron Duke, but I'm sure the US haven't got the exclusive right to idiocy? There are lots of idiots, ignorants and plain fools all over the place. Why should we in Europe be different? We like to say bad things about America from time to time, but one reason probably is a "big-brother complex" and the other is that, well frankly not all US politicians seem to know what they're doing - or maybe they just don't care about cause and effect? What I find disconcerting is that many of the Americans I've met seem to take pride in the fact that they know next to nothing about the world outside the US. Considering the place the US have in the world, and the power and influence, it's alarming that so many people know so little about the world they influence with every little sneeze on the Dow, every time the Fed Res does something to the interest rates and every time the residing president (regardless of who he is) decides to take a stand somewhere in the world. With power comes responsibility and that's sometimes that seems to be lacking a lot of the time.
But this probably isn't where you wanted this thread to go either, right? :halo:
 
Natalie said:
... the majority of Americans seem to lack even the rudiments of common knowledge, which just means Americans are more ignorant ...
Click to expand...
Provide evidence for that extremely rude generalization, which is a direct insult to some members of this board (including me) ... or develop the decency to retract it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top