European Politics
- Thread starter Forostar
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Anonymous
Guest
Re: European Union
Ah, whatever. Doesn't matter anyway
Ah, whatever. Doesn't matter anyway
Re: European Union
"No seriously, I am afraid it's not that black and white. If someone would be against the EU constitution, it would be a bit quick to judge that he is a nationalist, isn't it? It depends on what the objections are."- Forostar
That's not what I meant to say. I was simply stating that nationalism would be a hinder to making a 'super-state' here in Europe. And a 'super-state' does not just mean an EU constitution, there are lots of other things involved as well.
"No seriously, I am afraid it's not that black and white. If someone would be against the EU constitution, it would be a bit quick to judge that he is a nationalist, isn't it? It depends on what the objections are."- Forostar
That's not what I meant to say. I was simply stating that nationalism would be a hinder to making a 'super-state' here in Europe. And a 'super-state' does not just mean an EU constitution, there are lots of other things involved as well.
Albie
Keeping an open eye on the Weeping Angels.
Re: European Union
These people have a big voice behind them in the shape of most of the UK's tabloids. And, I hate to say it, if a paper like The Sun or The Mirror says it's a bad thing, a lot of people believe them.
I've stated before that I'm personally happy for the UK to have the Euro as it's currency and I don't begrudge sharing the EU pot with less fortunate countries - but I do find that with the EU way too much bureaucracy gets in the way here and that needs to be stamped out.
There is a lot of people in the UK that are anti the whole EU thing and will do anything to safeguard their separate national identity - which they think will be lost. They also resent the idea of tax payers money been used to fund less-off countries. Mainly, this faction are traditional Conservative voters and want their party to tow the line, though when this seems to not happen, they form their own political party - UKIP is one such example. A lot of people also want to retain the Pound - again, seen as a further corrosion of national identity - and not join the Euro full stop.Forostar said:
These people have a big voice behind them in the shape of most of the UK's tabloids. And, I hate to say it, if a paper like The Sun or The Mirror says it's a bad thing, a lot of people believe them.
I've stated before that I'm personally happy for the UK to have the Euro as it's currency and I don't begrudge sharing the EU pot with less fortunate countries - but I do find that with the EU way too much bureaucracy gets in the way here and that needs to be stamped out.
Re: European Union
Perun, I suppose we were discussing "supranationalism" under the moniker of a "super-nation". We will stick to precise terms from now on
I don't know much about the EU constitution. Was it designed to supplant the existing ones? Or would it, in the case of the Netherlands, have many provisions that do not apply because they are covered already by the Dutch Constitution?
Perun, I suppose we were discussing "supranationalism" under the moniker of a "super-nation". We will stick to precise terms from now on
I don't know much about the EU constitution. Was it designed to supplant the existing ones? Or would it, in the case of the Netherlands, have many provisions that do not apply because they are covered already by the Dutch Constitution?
Re: European Union
I tried posting a few days back in reply to Forostar about Austria's stance towards the EU. I am too lazy right now to repost the entire thing so I'll just recap. I think Austria is rather EU friendly, or at least the politicians like to make it look like it. Austria also has strong ties to eastern European countries and has been helping quite a few of them get into the EU.
My homeland of Sweden, on the other hand, is less EU friendly as I think Anomica's posts have shown. Whenever I go to Sweden I hear alot of people complaining about having to support poorer countries and that everything is getting more expensive (even though the Swedes rejected the euro).
I tried posting a few days back in reply to Forostar about Austria's stance towards the EU. I am too lazy right now to repost the entire thing so I'll just recap. I think Austria is rather EU friendly, or at least the politicians like to make it look like it. Austria also has strong ties to eastern European countries and has been helping quite a few of them get into the EU.
My homeland of Sweden, on the other hand, is less EU friendly as I think Anomica's posts have shown. Whenever I go to Sweden I hear alot of people complaining about having to support poorer countries and that everything is getting more expensive (even though the Swedes rejected the euro).
Re: European Union
See, "things getting more expensive" is caused by people not understanding global economics. Yes, prices will rise when you join the Eurozone, because the Euro is a strong currency and has a high value compared to most importing global currencies. It's really quite simple (and Canada is in a similar spot, remember, because our dollar is getting closer and closer to the US $).
If one Euro = six Kronor, then it is cheaper for you to go to Sweden and exchange money and goods, because one Euro will create more physical cash there. This makes importing goods better. If you have a high currency, like the Euro, it means exporting is cheaper. It also has a lot to do with tourism and foreign cash coming in. The kronor/Euro example is not great because a Kronor and a Euro do not spend equally (people in Sweden expect to spend more Kronors on a loaf of bread than you do Euros). But Canadian and American dollars do, which is why we're hurting badly right now.
See, "things getting more expensive" is caused by people not understanding global economics. Yes, prices will rise when you join the Eurozone, because the Euro is a strong currency and has a high value compared to most importing global currencies. It's really quite simple (and Canada is in a similar spot, remember, because our dollar is getting closer and closer to the US $).
If one Euro = six Kronor, then it is cheaper for you to go to Sweden and exchange money and goods, because one Euro will create more physical cash there. This makes importing goods better. If you have a high currency, like the Euro, it means exporting is cheaper. It also has a lot to do with tourism and foreign cash coming in. The kronor/Euro example is not great because a Kronor and a Euro do not spend equally (people in Sweden expect to spend more Kronors on a loaf of bread than you do Euros). But Canadian and American dollars do, which is why we're hurting badly right now.
Re: European Union
Exactly. Most of the population is stupid. Europe is industrialized, therefore it is better to export than import. And therefore it is better to have a strong currency. Canada is unique; because some ridiculous number like 60% of our trade is done with the USA, we need the lower dollar.
Exactly. Most of the population is stupid. Europe is industrialized, therefore it is better to export than import. And therefore it is better to have a strong currency. Canada is unique; because some ridiculous number like 60% of our trade is done with the USA, we need the lower dollar.
Re: European Union
But isn't that part of the European Union's own rules? One country's veto is all that's needed. All the countries in the EU knew that when they entered, so they can't complain when one country decides to exercise that right. It's akin to wanting free speech for everyone except those who speak against you personally.
As for CIA prisons and whatnot, I think everyone in Western Europe should be ever-cognisant of the fact that some countries cannot afford to have the USA pissed off at them. What if Poland had said "No" to the CIA prisons - you can bet that America would find a reason to punish them economically (trade tariffs against Polish imports, for example.). They do it to Canada ALL THE TIME, but we're rich enough that it doesn't cripple us totally. Emerging economies in Eastern Europe simply can't afford to be cut off from the USA markets, so sometimes, in exchange of raising the standard of living for their citizens, they have to look the other way when it comes to a bit of dirty business by the CIA.
Perun said:
But isn't that part of the European Union's own rules? One country's veto is all that's needed. All the countries in the EU knew that when they entered, so they can't complain when one country decides to exercise that right. It's akin to wanting free speech for everyone except those who speak against you personally.
As for CIA prisons and whatnot, I think everyone in Western Europe should be ever-cognisant of the fact that some countries cannot afford to have the USA pissed off at them. What if Poland had said "No" to the CIA prisons - you can bet that America would find a reason to punish them economically (trade tariffs against Polish imports, for example.). They do it to Canada ALL THE TIME, but we're rich enough that it doesn't cripple us totally. Emerging economies in Eastern Europe simply can't afford to be cut off from the USA markets, so sometimes, in exchange of raising the standard of living for their citizens, they have to look the other way when it comes to a bit of dirty business by the CIA.
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
Re: European Union
That's because the U.S is a whinny little brat who always wants to get it's way, and uses it's economic might to do so. Hell, it is STILL punishing Cuba even though they house Guantanamo there! WTF? So a prison is not a reason to punish or reward a country.
IronDuke said:
That's because the U.S is a whinny little brat who always wants to get it's way, and uses it's economic might to do so. Hell, it is STILL punishing Cuba even though they house Guantanamo there! WTF? So a prison is not a reason to punish or reward a country.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Re: European Union
I never said I agree with all of the EU's rules. I think the one veto rule is absolute, perfectly digested bullshit.
Guantanamo Bay is part of the US. Well, it was till 2001. Cuba has never really had much of a chance to demand it back, though.
IronDuke said:
I never said I agree with all of the EU's rules. I think the one veto rule is absolute, perfectly digested bullshit.
Onhell said:
Guantanamo Bay is part of the US. Well, it was till 2001. Cuba has never really had much of a chance to demand it back, though.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Re: European Union
Poland could face EU treaty vote
Polish PM Donald Tusk has said a referendum may be necessary on the Lisbon Treaty because of a dispute with the opposition and President Kaczynski.
The president and his twin brother, Jaroslaw, helped negotiate the accord but are now threatening to torpedo it, saying it could harm Polish interests.
Ireland is the only member state due to hold a public vote on the treaty, which has to be ratified by all 27 countries.
Signed last year, it is aimed at making EU institutions more efficient.
But opponents are concerned it gives the European Union more power, by creating a president of the European Council and extending the use of majority voting.
In a televised address on Monday night, President Kaczynski said: "Not everything in the EU is good for Poland."
On Tuesday, he submitted to parliament his own ratification bill which he said would better protect Poland's national interests.
Rights charter
The treaty would need a two-thirds majority to go through both houses of parliament, but ex-Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski's Law and Justice party has said the existing ratification bill does not guarantee Poland's exemption from the treaty's Charter of Fundamental rights.
It fears the charter could allow homosexual marriage in Poland and pave the way for Germans to sue Poles for property lost after World War II.*
The UK has secured a guarantee that the charter cannot be used by a European court to change British law.
President Lech Kaczynski has said his own ratification proposal would enable Warsaw to invoke the so-called "British protocol".
Lithuanian President Valdas Adamkus appealed to the Polish president not to block the treaty.
"To me, the EU is vital for the entire continent and I hope that Poland definitely is not going to be an obstacle," he said.
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Am I the only one seeing some vague link between this* and this? I'm sure some Poles might...
Poland could face EU treaty vote
Polish PM Donald Tusk has said a referendum may be necessary on the Lisbon Treaty because of a dispute with the opposition and President Kaczynski.
The president and his twin brother, Jaroslaw, helped negotiate the accord but are now threatening to torpedo it, saying it could harm Polish interests.
Ireland is the only member state due to hold a public vote on the treaty, which has to be ratified by all 27 countries.
Signed last year, it is aimed at making EU institutions more efficient.
But opponents are concerned it gives the European Union more power, by creating a president of the European Council and extending the use of majority voting.
In a televised address on Monday night, President Kaczynski said: "Not everything in the EU is good for Poland."
On Tuesday, he submitted to parliament his own ratification bill which he said would better protect Poland's national interests.
Rights charter
The treaty would need a two-thirds majority to go through both houses of parliament, but ex-Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski's Law and Justice party has said the existing ratification bill does not guarantee Poland's exemption from the treaty's Charter of Fundamental rights.
It fears the charter could allow homosexual marriage in Poland and pave the way for Germans to sue Poles for property lost after World War II.*
The UK has secured a guarantee that the charter cannot be used by a European court to change British law.
President Lech Kaczynski has said his own ratification proposal would enable Warsaw to invoke the so-called "British protocol".
Lithuanian President Valdas Adamkus appealed to the Polish president not to block the treaty.
"To me, the EU is vital for the entire continent and I hope that Poland definitely is not going to be an obstacle," he said.
----------------
Am I the only one seeing some vague link between this* and this? I'm sure some Poles might...
Ardius
Trooper
Re: European Union
Totally agree, thats exactly the situation we are in here in the UK. I might actually start a new thread about it, because I think its a huge problem we have right now.
Our country is way too obsessed about its identity right now, and in all the wrong areas. They say (the governemt, people in general) that we should preserve our identity and celebrate what "little" is left of british, nay, english identity. The problem is, we are neither here nor there, living up to our stereotype, we are too soft (maybe not the right word) on other nationals when it comes to them complaining about our traditions, as such we lose our identity because of our identity. On the other hand, we are being too nationalist in some areas and its starting to alienate certain parts of society, such as trying to pass bills which mean children have to pledge aliegiance to the Queen?
It's all very ironic as well because Saint Geroge's day is barely celebrated now. Maybe people are less and less thinking of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales and more just thinking as one whole Great Britain? Yet, the Welsh and Scottish are fiercely proud of their traditions and will regularly speaks of themselves as not from the UK or Great Britain but from Scotland and Wales. Personally, I'm a little bit of a traditionalist and I don't like seeing England being forgotten in such a way, it's very sad.
When, I say I'm a bit traditionalist, I'm not blind, I would also welcome the change in currency I don't stand in the way of progress and things that are beneficial for all, it's just I hate to see England (or the UK) be turned into a blank slate, we have to take in everyone elses cultures and traditions but why does no-one else celebrate ours? We are more likely to celebrate Saint Patricks day than we are to celebrate our own?!!?
Well, anyway, all for another time and other topic.
Albie said:
Totally agree, thats exactly the situation we are in here in the UK. I might actually start a new thread about it, because I think its a huge problem we have right now.
Our country is way too obsessed about its identity right now, and in all the wrong areas. They say (the governemt, people in general) that we should preserve our identity and celebrate what "little" is left of british, nay, english identity. The problem is, we are neither here nor there, living up to our stereotype, we are too soft (maybe not the right word) on other nationals when it comes to them complaining about our traditions, as such we lose our identity because of our identity. On the other hand, we are being too nationalist in some areas and its starting to alienate certain parts of society, such as trying to pass bills which mean children have to pledge aliegiance to the Queen?
It's all very ironic as well because Saint Geroge's day is barely celebrated now. Maybe people are less and less thinking of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales and more just thinking as one whole Great Britain? Yet, the Welsh and Scottish are fiercely proud of their traditions and will regularly speaks of themselves as not from the UK or Great Britain but from Scotland and Wales. Personally, I'm a little bit of a traditionalist and I don't like seeing England being forgotten in such a way, it's very sad.
When, I say I'm a bit traditionalist, I'm not blind, I would also welcome the change in currency I don't stand in the way of progress and things that are beneficial for all, it's just I hate to see England (or the UK) be turned into a blank slate, we have to take in everyone elses cultures and traditions but why does no-one else celebrate ours? We are more likely to celebrate Saint Patricks day than we are to celebrate our own?!!?
Well, anyway, all for another time and other topic.
Powergirl81
Trooper
Re: European Union
So Albie and Ardius, if I'm understanding you, are you guys saying that England will change its currency from the pound to the Euro in the near future? Or is it more to the effect that you accept it like any other form of currency? I guess that's a big deal over there because America is 48 continuous states and the dollar is the dollar. When we went to Toronto last summer we went through the currency exchange, but the dollar was almost dead even with the Canadian dollar. So if you would travel to Sctoland and Wales, do you need to change currencies every time? Or do they accept the pound like England would accept whatever the Scottish currency is and the Welsh currency is...? Forgive me, I don't know what they are. I'm not exactly on top of this stuff, but it caught my interest.
I remember when my hubby and his friends went to Europe in 1998 they had to go through all the hassle of changing currencies. Guilders, francs, pounds...by the end of the trip they were confused because they were drunk and stoned and all the coins looked the same! 
Some even had holes in them. So now that the Euro has taken over every countries' separate currency, so how far does that go? If you go to Russia, you need to exchange to...rubles or rupees is it?
...Enough questions for now
So Albie and Ardius, if I'm understanding you, are you guys saying that England will change its currency from the pound to the Euro in the near future? Or is it more to the effect that you accept it like any other form of currency? I guess that's a big deal over there because America is 48 continuous states and the dollar is the dollar. When we went to Toronto last summer we went through the currency exchange, but the dollar was almost dead even with the Canadian dollar. So if you would travel to Sctoland and Wales, do you need to change currencies every time? Or do they accept the pound like England would accept whatever the Scottish currency is and the Welsh currency is...? Forgive me, I don't know what they are. I'm not exactly on top of this stuff, but it caught my interest.
I remember when my hubby and his friends went to Europe in 1998 they had to go through all the hassle of changing currencies. Guilders, francs, pounds...by the end of the trip they were confused because they were drunk and stoned and all the coins looked the same! Some even had holes in them. So now that the Euro has taken over every countries' separate currency, so how far does that go? If you go to Russia, you need to exchange to...rubles or rupees is it? ...Enough questions for now
A
Anonymous
Guest
Re: European Union
England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are parts of the same country (UK), so they have the same currency.
The Euro is currently the currency of Portugal, Spain, France, Ireland, Belgium, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Italy, Malta, Greece and Cyprus. Add to that Andorra, Monaco and Vatican City, which have a currency union with Spain, France and Italy respectively, plus Montenegro and Kosovo, which also use the Euro, although they are not EU members. Slovakia, Lithuania, Estonia, Bulgaria, Hungary, Latvia, Czech Republic, Poland and Romania all plan to introduce the Euro sooner or later. That would leave the UK, Denmark and Sweden as the only current EU members who haven't got the Euro. Iceland, Norway, Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Serbia, FYROM, Moldova, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Turkey, Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan are European countries that are not in the EU (although Croatia, Turkey and Georgia are actively striving for it) and therefore don't have the Euro.
BTW, the Russian currency is the ruble. The rupee is used in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.
Powergirl81 said:
England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are parts of the same country (UK), so they have the same currency.
The Euro is currently the currency of Portugal, Spain, France, Ireland, Belgium, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Italy, Malta, Greece and Cyprus. Add to that Andorra, Monaco and Vatican City, which have a currency union with Spain, France and Italy respectively, plus Montenegro and Kosovo, which also use the Euro, although they are not EU members. Slovakia, Lithuania, Estonia, Bulgaria, Hungary, Latvia, Czech Republic, Poland and Romania all plan to introduce the Euro sooner or later. That would leave the UK, Denmark and Sweden as the only current EU members who haven't got the Euro. Iceland, Norway, Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Serbia, FYROM, Moldova, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Turkey, Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan are European countries that are not in the EU (although Croatia, Turkey and Georgia are actively striving for it) and therefore don't have the Euro.
BTW, the Russian currency is the ruble. The rupee is used in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.