The Red And The Black

How good is The Red and the Black on a scale of 1-10?


  • Total voters
    99
  • Poll closed .

Liveone

Nomad
This is classic Steve Harris....
I'm getting a bit of a SOTC mixed with ROTAM vibe with this one....
Have to listen to this one a number of times before I will be able to appreciate it properly.
At around 5 minutes it gets a bit soft for some reason. The bass seems to get lost in the mix and the drums don't sound as punchy.
 

gor

Ancient Mariner
Fantastic song. Rich with fantastic riffs and solos. I can't understand why people find it to sound unfinished or rushed. Have no idea what the lyrics are about. They are intriguing but are a perfect example of how Steve's preoccupations with life / death / second chances have him stuck in a rut. Most of the lines in the songs lyrics refer to ideas already expanded on Dream of Mirrors, The Angel and the Gambler, Thin line..., The Unbeliever and others...
 

Brigantium

General of the Dark Army
Staff member
Second proper listening and my view hasn't entirely changed. This starts with so much promise, and there's a lot I do like about it, but the whoah-ohs detract from the whole feel of the song for me, and the vocals go too cheery sounding for my liking, which seems at odds with the rest of the song. I still swear it speeds up and up towards the instrumental. I still like the instrumental part a lot, it's like the song regains it's footing when it hits that point.
 

Durango

Invader
Second proper listening and my view hasn't entirely changed. This starts with so much promise, and there's a lot I do like about it, but the whoah-ohs detract from the whole feel of the song for me, and the vocals go too cheery sounding for my liking, which seems at odds with the rest of the song. I still swear it speeds up and up towards the instrumental. I still like the instrumental part a lot, it's like the song regains it's footing when it hits that point.
Totally agree. who-ho and some vocal too sugary seems a bit dull and out of place. Second half of the song is rock solid, tho.
 

TheSpectreWithin

Pirate of the Undergorund
Some of the best melodies on the album are in this song. I also love the whoah-ohs, it's classic 'Arry. The instrumental section could have used some tightening up though. There's really no need for some of the basic rhythm passages, either put some vocals over them or go straight to the melody lines.
 

LooseCannon

Enterprise-class aircraft carrier
Staff member
Does anyone else get the feeling that this marvellous song is Steve's attempt to re-do the content of The Angel and the Gambler but make an actual Iron Maiden song rather than a Yes tribute?
 

Night Prowler

Customer Deathcycle Manager
Staff member
First part of the song (or the "vocal" part) is awesome. Guitar leads being played alongside Bruce's singing is something they never did before as far as I know and it works perfectly. I don't mind the "whoah-oh" parts, though I think they'd work better live. There's this weird loose note right before the vocals kick in, should've cleaned that up, but it's not a big problem.

Now, the second part definitely isn't as good. There are some great riffs in it, but it should've been way shorter, 3-4 minutes at most instead of 8 or so. Pretty much brings the whole song down, hope they won't play it live, or they'll skip the 2nd part at least.
 

Babo 91

Nomad
Does anyone else get the feeling that this marvellous song is Steve's attempt to re-do the content of The Angel and the Gambler but make an actual Iron Maiden song rather than a Yes tribute?

Yes

I like to think if this song as Angel and the gambler, RoTAM and SoTC having a threesome
 

Luisma

Years Wasted
At first listen I really thought this was the worst song of the album. The start of the song reminds me that Gypsy's Kiss concert when Steve messed up the intro and everyone thought he was tuning the bass... Afterwards the song gets better, lot of time changes and the three amigos all have great moments in the song, however I do agree with most of the reviews and comments, the song gets to long after a awhile. Sorry Mr. Harris but this is not your best song
 

SinisterMinisterX

Illuminatus
Staff member
Definitely a top 4 for me, based on what keeps me up running through my head at night. Eternity, Empire and Tears are also keeping me up.
 

Brave New Pilgrim

What not to do if your bird sh#$% on you....
Agreed..maybe my favorite on the album.

It's funny you should quote me, as my opinion of the song has unfortunately dropped fairly significantly since I made that post.

Don't get me wrong, I still think it's a decent song, but it needs some major trimming to make it cohesive IMHO. Some really cool parts that are stretched out way too long.
 

viced92

Nomad
It's funny you should quote me, as my opinion of the song has unfortunately dropped fairly significantly since I made that post.

Don't get me wrong, I still think it's a decent song, but it needs some major trimming to make it cohesive IMHO. Some really cool parts that are stretched out way too long.
Oh well :)

I have not had any qualms with the length of this song at all. All 13 minutes fly by, and I enjoy every second.
 

Brave New Pilgrim

What not to do if your bird sh#$% on you....
Personally, when I get the kind of thoughts that often inspire such statements, I go the other way. I say "I don't understand the song yet" rather than "the song needs to be fixed". The song is just fine; it doesn't need any trimming. The issue is the listener, always, whoever that listener is.

Except I've been listening to the song since the leak. I have a grasp of it structurally now, and I reserve the right to judge it just as any person on the planet has the right to judge any piece of subjective art.

Again, I state that I think that even at it's long runtime it's still a good song. However I believe some of the verses could have been cut, one or two of the "Whoah" parts could have been cut, the "Red and the Black" section could have been cut in half, and the instrumental section could have been slightly cut down. IMHO that would have made it a more concise and cohesive song.

Again, that's "my opinion". You can disagree with me all you want, and provide points as to why you disagree. However, music is arguably the most subjective form of art that there is, and as much as we may disagree with somebody's opinion, it doesn't make them "wrong".

And no, I'm not "trolling". I've been one of the most active defenders of this album since the leak. Hell, it might possibly be in my top 5 favorite Maiden albums OAT.
 

SinisterMinisterX

Illuminatus
Staff member
Again, that's "my opinion". You can disagree with me all you want, and provide points as to why you disagree. However, music is arguably the most subjective form of art that there is, and as much as we may disagree with somebody's opinion, it doesn't make them "wrong".

I was doing just that. I was responding to the comment, not the person. My apologies if you somehow took it as more.

Edit: You put "wrong" in quotes like I said that. I did not.
 

Brave New Pilgrim

What not to do if your bird sh#$% on you....
I was doing just that. I was responding to the comment, not the person. My apologies if you somehow took it as more.

Edit: You put "wrong" in quotes like I said that. I did not.
No, but by saying "The song is fine" and "the issue is the listener" kind of implied it.

But I digress, I've sort of fallen out of love with this one.
 
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