the Iron Maiden method of songwriting

[Dick Brucinson]

this is a topic I am almost completey in the dark about. does anybody of you have any info on HOW within the band the songwriting process is going on? did Steve ever explain himself a bit about? Rime Of The Ancient Mariner e.g. is fully Harris credited, and this surprises me. the song is full of complex guitar riffing. this suggests Steve is a solid guitar player, right? if Adrian or Dave brought in their parts - why no songwriting credit to them? there's dozens of examples like that in their catalogue.

 

[Jer]

Legally, songwriting credits are just for lyrics and vocal melody. The bass and drum parts and the guitar riffs and solos are considered “arrangement” and don’t automatically count. That said, sometimes band members will agree on who made the biggest contributions to the song and give all of those people credit for it, even if they didn’t contribute lyrical or vocal melody ideas.

I assume you’re actually curious about how those full arrangements are put together, and that’s something that varies with the songwriters involved and has also changed over time within the band.

Bruce and Adrian have a lot of active back and forth developing riffs and vocal ideas. Sometimes Adrian will come in with some riffs and arrangement ideas and maybe a high-level idea to base the lyrics around, and Bruce will flesh out the vocal melodies and lyrics based on that template, and they’ll hash out final structure and arrangement together.

In recent years, it sounds like Steve’s songs involve people laying down separate musical parts that the band likes, then Steve goes off for a couple of days and experiments with putting them together in different ways, developing melodic lines and lyrics for them and re-presenting them to the full band to finalize things and lay down final recordings. If Bruce contributes lyrics or significant melodic ideas, then he’ll also get a credit.

Sometimes one of the guitarists will bring a half-formed song idea to Steve including some melodic parts. Steve will then flesh it out and finalize the lyrics and arrangement details. In these cases Steve and the guitarist will both get credit.

The only time Nicko got a credit for an album track was on “New Frontier” when he wrote the lyrics. Otherwise, no matter how important his drumming choices are to the impact of the track, he still won’t get songwriting credit.

 

[chaosapiant]

One of the aspects of Maiden's writing is seeing how their "teamups" have changed over the years. Janick always writes with Steve. Bruce (nowadays) tends to write with Adrian. Adrian writes with Bruce and Steve. Other folks bring in riffs, melodies, song ideas, etc, and dump them into Steve's big hat. Steve goes into a closet and pulls, say, five ideas from his Big Hat, then begins working on that song. If he pulls an idea from Janick, that song will automagically be voltron'd into The Legacy of the Talismachine of Death, of Souls. Which is awesome because these songs are often highlights on their respective items.

Sometimes Dave comes in to Steve and says "Hi Steve, I'm Dave, here's my song idea pile" and Steve will take his ideas for 5 or 6 songs and give Dave 1 song out of them.

Once Steve has glued his ideas or other ideas together, he takes the remainder of his own ideas and fuses them into Epic Tunes. A dash of gallop, a spritz of dual melodies, here's a shit ton of words that Bruce'll have to deal with, etc.

More or less a bunch of that and voila! Iron Maiden Magical Album Time!

 

[bearfan]

I would love to see a "Get Back" type of documentary ... too bad those tapes don't exist like the Beatles.

 

[Dick Brucinson]

I would love to see a "Get Back" type of documentary ... too bad those tapes don't exist like the Beatles.

nobody knows they don't exist. anyway. I am quite sure about one thing: they have a lot of interesting stuff "on stock" even now for any time after they'll have called it a day. and who knows, maybe they'll do it the Beatly way and play some rooftop.

 

[Black Abyss Babe]

I don't think there is any established "Maiden method of songwriting" - they seem to just get together and do whatever seems like a good idea at the time (Janick has often said that "there's no set way of doing it").

But sometimes they do give you a bit more detail about specific songs and my favourite of these stories is the writing of "Rainmaker":

Dave started it: he had a riff and a chord progression. To this Steve added a melody. While they were both playing around with this Bruce commented that the riff at the start made him think of raindrops. Dave comments "you could almost see the light bulb going on in his head as he thought about it - it was very inspiring".

 

[MindRuler]

Dave: Hey Steve?
Steve: Yeah, Davey?
Dave: I have an idea for a song
Steve: Really? Let me hear it!
Dave: Ok, here it is
Dave plays a riff followed by a tasty Davish solo
Dave: Well?
Steve: Well what?
Dave: Did you like it?
Steve: It?
Dave: The riff, the solo??
Steve: That's 2 things
Dave: Yes I know, did you like them?
Steve: I´m not sure
Dave: Want me to play them again?
Steve: Sure, go ahead
Dave plays the riff followed by the tasty Davish solo again
Dave: Well?
Steve: Hmmm...
Dave: Now do you like what you heard?
Steve: Not really
Dave: You didn´t like the riff or the solo??
Steve: No
Dave: Which one of the two you didn´t like?
Steve: Both. Sorry Davey.
Dave:

 

[Eddie's Uncle]

The more intersting fact is that Maiden don't write when they feel inspired, but rather set a fixed date when they get together for 6 weeks to write the entire new album and then record it right away. I think this is a very self-limiting way that is more like a production meeting than creating art. I guess the fact that I found all of their post BNW albums underwhelming is related to this method.

 

[Edington]

The more intersting fact is that Maiden don't write when they feel inspired, but rather set a fixed date when they get together for 6 weeks to write the entire new album and then record it right away. I think this is a very self-limiting way that is more like a production meeting than creating art. I guess the fact that I found all of their post BNW albums underwhelming is related to this method.

Wasn't it just the last two albums that they wrote/recorded in this manner? Even then, they didn't write everything in the studio. Bruce had written "If Eternity Should Fail" for a potential solo album, parts of "Empire of the Clouds" were written on a keyboard he won at a raffle. Steve has also mentioned that he used up a lot of outstanding ideas on Senjutsu as he wasn't sure if there would be another album, considering how much he contributed, I doubt he came up with every piece of music in the studio. It's more like they arrange/finalise the songs in the studio, using ideas that they've previously come up with.

Legally, songwriting credits are just for lyrics and vocal melody. The bass and drum parts and the guitar riffs and solos are considered “arrangement” and don’t automatically count.

Unrelated to Maiden, but this is something I find interesting and a little weird when it comes to modern pop music. Not to turn this thread into ragging on pop music or Ed Sheeran in particular, but as an example, his song "Shape of You" has six people credited as songwriters. For a less-than four minute song that has little variation in lyrics and vocal melody, I can't understand how so many people could contribute enough to warrant a writing credit. Some of them must be receiving credit for writing the music, surely?

 

[Eddie's Uncle]

Afaik they do this ever since BNW although that album also featured fragments from the Blaze era.

Sure they also bringparts and fragments to these sessions that were written seperately. But they create the majority of their material in thsese sessions and spend little time on arrangements. If you ever wondered why post reunion Maiden have so many line repititions and little variety in their choruses, this may be a reason.

 

[Mosh]

Wasn't it just the last two albums that they wrote/recorded in this manner? Even then, they didn't write everything in the studio. Bruce had written "If Eternity Should Fail" for a potential solo album, parts of "Empire of the Clouds" were written on a keyboard he won at a raffle. Steve has also mentioned that he used up a lot of outstanding ideas on Senjutsu as he wasn't sure if there would be another album, considering how much he contributed, I doubt he came up with every piece of music in the studio. It's more like they arrange/finalise the songs in the studio, using ideas that they've previously come up with.

+ all of the Smith/Dickinson tracks were written outside the main sessions. My understanding is that, last two albums aside, the only tangible difference between the 80s albums and the newer albums is the recording live in studio. I don’t think their writing process actually changed much over the years, and they were probably on an even more rigid schedule back then since it seems like there was an obligation to write and record after Christmas in the 80s.

The more intersting fact is that Maiden don't write when they feel inspired, but rather set a fixed date when they get together for 6 weeks to write the entire new album and then record it right away. I think this is a very self-limiting way that is more like a production meeting than creating art.

This seems pretty standard for a professional recording act.

 

[Vaenyr]

They did the same thing in the 80s, this isn't a modern thing. There are plenty of interviews from TNOTB where Steve mentioned that he had the luxury of picking songs for the first two albums, but had to meet the deadline and write the new stuff for the third album until then.

Credits are not only given for lyrics, they are also given for the melody of a song. Otherwise instrumentals wouldn't have songwriting credits. How exactly things are credited and who gets one differs from artist to artist and is determined beforehand. Maiden gives the individual members who contributed the important riffs and melodies credits. Other bands like Cradle Of Filth give a generic "all music written by Cradle Of Filth", regardless of who actually wrote the music.
It seems to be industry standard for solos and drum grooves to not get individual credits. So, Bruce might've written the basic chords, melodies and lyrics for songs like Powerslave and Empire Of The Clouds, the others added their flair and adjusted some stuff, but only Bruce got a credit.

As for why modern and simple pop songs sometimes have entire groups writing them: In such cases it's not only the songwriters who get credits. It's often also producers, the samples used and so on. Musically there's obviously not much happening in such songs, that doesn't make the process of writing such a tune simple though. There's a reason why you'll see many of the same names behind some of the most successful pop songs of the last 30 years. It's not about writing a good song; it's about being in touch with the current trends and anticipating newer ones.

Finally about "ROTAM has complicated riffs, but Steve only plays the bass": Many of the riffs in that song are identical between bass and guitar. There's nothing in that song that Steve couldn't have come up with by himself.

 

[Kalata]

I don't think Maiden's writing style has changed much since the 80's. Only recording live. They always have ideas, they develop (them) in the studio or write on the road. Like every band. And Maiden like to set a time period because iirc Steve said they like to work under some pressure. That's not self-limitting. As Janick mentioned, he always brings 1 hour worth of ideas/material. Steve, Adrian and Bruce always have something. Ofc when they have ideas, they will record them.

The last 2 albums were a bit different (and Steve said he used his best ideas or something), but for example - they had more than half of the material written when they went into the studio to record TFF and DOD albums. For TBOS album, some songs are also an example (Eternity, Empire).

 

[Kalata]

Legally, songwriting credits are just for lyrics and vocal melody. The bass and drum parts and the guitar riffs and solos are considered “arrangement” and don’t automatically count. That said, sometimes band members will agree on who made the biggest contributions to the song and give all of those people credit for it, even if they didn’t contribute lyrical or vocal melody ideas.

They did the same thing in the 80s, this isn't a modern thing. There are plenty of interviews from TNOTB where Steve mentioned that he had the luxury of picking songs for the first two albums, but had to meet the deadline and write the new stuff for the third album until then.
It seems to be industry standard for solos and drum grooves to not get individual credits. So, Bruce might've written the basic chords, melodies and lyrics for songs like Powerslave and Empire Of The Clouds, the others added their flair and adjusted some stuff, but only Bruce got a credit.

This.

The only time Nicko got a credit for an album track was on “New Frontier” when he wrote the lyrics. Otherwise, no matter how important his drumming choices are to the impact of the track, he still won’t get songwriting credit.

Nicko also wrote the bass line.

I don't think there is any established "Maiden method of songwriting" - they seem to just get together and do whatever seems like a good idea at the time (Janick has often said that "there's no set way of doing it").

Yes, natural is the best way.

Sure they also bringparts and fragments to these sessions that were written seperately. But they create the majority of their material in thsese sessions and spend little time on arrangements. If you ever wondered why post reunion Maiden have so many line repititions and little variety in their choruses, this may be a reason.

But what if these are their preferred arrangements! It would be wild, wouldn't it.../ It's normal for the bands to work on the songs in the studio, they'll spend enough time on ideas - if they want to. 3 months is plenty of time. Steve and Bruce can write pretty quick.

And you know, there's a repetition in the 80's material. That's not something for Maiden that started with the Reunion era. Of all the parts (not just choruses, variation and stuff), but some fans don't want to admit it. The length of the songs is the key difference. Plus Steve's songs are not with the typical structure. But they for sure take less time on recording and details, at least since 2006. Their writing style changed in 1995.

 

[Eddie's Uncle]

+ all of the Smith/Dickinson tracks were written outside the main sessions. My understanding is that, last two albums aside, the only tangible difference between the 80s albums and the newer albums is the recording live in studio. I don’t think their writing process actually changed much over the years, and they were probably on an even more rigid schedule back then since it seems like there was an obligation to write


This seems pretty standard for a professional recording act.

As a professional tecording artist myself, I beg to differ on this being standard. It surely is not that unusual, but not general standard.

 

[Eddie's Uncle]

And you know, there's a repetition in the 80's material. That's not something for Maiden that started with the Reunion era. Of all the parts (not just choruses), but some fans don't want to admit it. The length of the songs is the key difference.

There are notable differences. Example: take the song No More Lies. The chorus is just repeating the line over, always in the same manner. Now take The Evil That Men Do. The chorus is the same line over too, but every repitition is slightly different in melody and phrasing. The key here is detail. It is what makes the difference between an okay song and a great one. Newer Maiden material has a significant lack of detail when compared to the classic stuff. There aren't many songs in their old catalogue with repeated chorus lines, and those that do have more variation.

Song lengths are part of the arrangement, and that's detail too. In songwriting, the arrangement often takes longest. Same for me. Writing he basic song parts is usually quick. Finding the proper arrangement can take weeks and monhs per song, at least if you want to stray away from the ever formulaic verse-chorus-verse structure and also want to avoid sounding random.
Writing longer songs is very difficult as arrangement becomes way more crucial than with 4 minute songs. My band writes songs with average song lengths of 11 minutes, thus we spend months on arrangement alone.

Admittedly, blaming this on their writing modus is speculation on my part. Could have other reasons too. But Maiden clearly take less attention to detail and arrangement than in the past, which is detrimental as their songs grow longer. I think they could avoid this with simply taking more time with the arrangements. Especially since they have MUCH more time between albums than in the past, and a budget that easily allows it.
Other bands can't afford to work differently, Maiden could.

 

[Vaenyr]

There are notable differences. Example: take the song No More Lies. The chorus is just repeating the line over, always in the same manner. Now take The Evil That Men Do. The chorus is the same line over too, but every repitition is slightly different in melody and phrasing. The key here is detail. It is what makes the difference between an okay song and a great one. Newer Maiden material has a significant lack of detail when compared to the classic stuff. There aren't many songs in their old catalogue with repeated chorus lines, and those that do have more variation.

Song lengths are part of the arrangement, and that's detail too. In songwriting, the arrangement often takes longest. Same for me. Writing he basic song parts is usually quick. Finding the proper arrangement can take weeks and monhs per song, at least if you want to stray away from the ever formulaic verse-chorus-verse structure and also want to avoid sounding random.
Writing longer songs is very difficult as arrangement becomes way more crucial than with 4 minute songs. My band writes songs with average song lengths of 11 minutes, thus we spend months on arrangement alone.

Admittedly, blaming this on their writing modus is speculation on my part. Could have other reasons too. But Maiden clearly take less attention to detail and arrangement than in the past, which is detrimental as their songs grow longer. I think they could avoid this with simply taking more time with the arrangements. Especially since they have MUCH more time between albums than in the past, and a budget that easily allows it.
Other bands can't afford to work differently, Maiden could.

I agree with your overall point and I've also lamented the fact that recent Maiden productions haven't seen the amount of detail they used to have. A common defense for the "let's record most of the stuff live" approach is that it is more authentic, less sterile, actual real music and similar phrases. And to that I always point them to Powerslave and SSOASS which were recorded in a different way but are full of tiny little details and perfectionism that got lost along the way. That's usually ignored though.

I'd still argue that this has nothing to do with deadlines and is simply a consequence of how they record the tracks nowadays. They seem to be under the impression that even studio performances need "live energy" and a "live component" which results in literal mistakes making the final cut. It's obviously subjective, but I want a studio performance to be as clean as humanly possible (no digital or artificial trickery) and to represent the "optimal" version of the songs. Live I want energy and variance, but not in the studio. Unfortunately this is a discussion that comes up every few weeks and will never change, but I can't help but complain a bit lol

 

[naranja]

Watch a film

Play the E C G D chord sequence softly by playing the octaves and fifths with a melody over it in a slow intro for three minutes

The song goes louder so now play the E C G D bit in power chords

Sing about the film a bit

Chorus is title of the song 8 times

Maybe go into F# for the solo, but maybe not

Some nice melodies

Sing the chorus again a bunch of times

Play a soft outro for another few minutes


Might be a tad cynical.. haha

 

[Melony]

I think Steve could consider Adrian's opinion a little more when it comes to production.

 

[Dick Brucinson]

I don't think Maiden's writing style has changed much since the 80's. Only recording live. They always have ideas, they develop (them) in the studio or write on the road. Like every band. And Maiden like to set a time period because iirc Steve said they like to work under some pressure. That's not self-limitting. As Janick mentioned, he always brings 1 hour worth of ideas/material. Steve, Adrian and Bruce always have something. Ofc when they have ideas, they will record them.

The last 2 albums were a bit different (and Steve said he used his best ideas or something), but for example - they had more than half of the material written when they went into the studio to record TFF and DOD albums. For TBOS album, some songs are also an example (Eternity, Empire).

When did they actually stop recording section by section and went for recording live? Like what was the last album they recorded the old way? Did that change with Shirley joinig in the production?