The Ides Of March - Early recording?

Discussion in 'Maiden Chat' started by Luisma, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. Luisma

    Luisma Years Wasted

    Hey everybody, how are you? I want to know your opinion on this matter. According to my research, Maiden recorded a version of The Ides Of March long before they recorded the Killers album. This seems to be confirmed in the bootleg recorded at The Ruskin Arms on on October 5, 1979. Now, I've asked Loopy about this and he said that they played the song live until they recorded the album version, however, on the before mentioned bootleg The Ides Of March seems to be recorded. What do you think? Is it played live or it is an early recording? Does anybody has any info on this matter?
     
  2. It appears in different forms on two different albums, for two different bands.

    If you go to youtube you can see various live performances, 1980, 1981, 2005
     
  3. srfc

    srfc Ancient Mariner

    I don't have any info but

    This is clearly the band playing it, you can hear their feedback etc. before they kick in, and it's still feeding back when Steve starts Wrathchild


    this is clearly a studio version, you can see the sound quality change completely for Sanctuary, and it's not the version from Killers, drummers could take a better guess but I think the drumming sounds accomplished so I'd guess it's Clive playing


    Therefore they must have recorded a studio version sometime, and my guess would be that it was in the sessions for the first album. As mentioned above, there was a court case with Samson also claiming it so maybe recording it might have played a part in Steve's claim.
     
  4. Luisma

    Luisma Years Wasted

    The second one is exactly the one version I was talking about. To my knowledge that version must have been recorded around October 1979... What threw me off track was Loppy's answer to my question in FB. That is definetely a recording but since he says it was not recorded earlier I keep wondering if someone has any other info about it
     
  5. Luisma

    Luisma Years Wasted

    Doing some research and connecting dots, I wonder if this early recorded version of 'The Ides Of March' was originally recorded during the Metal For Muthas recording sessions (24/10/1979). After all, Maiden usually played 'The Ides...' right before 'Wrathchild' so maybe they intended to put in both songs but only 'Wrathchild' was permited??? What you guys think? @Forostar @lira @srfc
     
    srfc likes this.
  6. srfc

    srfc Ancient Mariner

    I checked the only 2 bootlegs I have from the dates in between those two videos, to see what version was used

    Leicester 13 March 1980 - not on it, maybe this could be because the taper never taped the intro because it was not live? Or maybe they didn't have enough time for an intro tape as it was a support gig on the British Steel tour.
    St Austell 31st May 1980 - definitely the mystery studio version.

    I think you may be right, if they were still playing it live on 5th of October 1979, that means the likely studio time they had in that period was for Metal for Muthas, The Friday Rock Show and then the first album sessions. Since the song is connected to Wrathchild as you say, it's more likely to be recorded then than the Friday Rock Show which doesn't have Wrathchild, or the first album session which they would have been focused on the album.
     
    Luisma likes this.
  7. Forostar

    Forostar Ancient Mariner

    I'd say that playing something live (in a row, -studio version or real live-) does not mean the song is very wanted on a compilation; wanted by band and/or record company.

    That 1980 one sounds like a studio version. I have only heard it on my phone and would like to hear more on my computer. The track could be recorded by the band themselves, who knows.
     
  8. Luisma

    Luisma Years Wasted

    Thank you very much for your reply! I do have those bootlegs and agree with what you say 100%... This is very, very interesting since I have not seen anyone talking about this version in a long while and Loopy could be wrong!
     
  9. Luisma

    Luisma Years Wasted

    Didn't quite understand you Foro. However, think of what they did in the Killers album. They definitely were accostumed to play both song and Ides just sums abou 1 min and 30 seconds so they could have thought "Why not record the thing as 1 song?" don't you think?
     
  10. Forostar

    Forostar Ancient Mariner

    Loopy certainly can be wrong. He was one of the people who had (initially) forgotten that Cairns played on the Soundhouse Tapes.
     
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  11. Forostar

    Forostar Ancient Mariner

    Check my full post (I added a bit). What do you not understand?
     
    Luisma likes this.
  12. Luisma

    Luisma Years Wasted

    I didn't understand if you were trying to say that is unlikely they recorded the version during the Metal For Muthas session...

    However what you added presents an interesting detail, maybe they could have recorded the song themselves but where, why and when?
     
  13. Luisma

    Luisma Years Wasted

    From another huge fan

    "The Ides Of March was played immediately prior to Drifter in Maiden's 1978 set list and immediately prior to Sanctuary in the 1979 set list, so the idea it is connected to Wrathchild is not correct."

    However I must say that in 1979 they started playing The Ides prior to Wrathchild and stayed that way all the way until the Killers tour... However another fact has come to my attention... The bootleg highlighted here is from June 1980 and @srfc has made a point that on the bootleg recorded at St Austell on the 31st May 1980 the version of The Ides Of March is the recorded version. Now, a few months after IM debut album was released, Maiden had gone back to the studio again to record the Sanctuary single (anyone knows when these sessions took place?), which was not part of the first album recording sessions. Sanctuary came out in May 1980, so is very likely they could have also recorded The ides Of March
     
  14. Magnus

    Magnus Ancient Mariner

    Hi Luisma, interesting question.
    Maybe you could ask it at Doug Sampson's FB?
     
    Forostar likes this.
  15. Forostar

    Forostar Ancient Mariner

    I was saying that it is not likely and also it is not unlikely. The theories in this topic do not mean much.

    I also said this:
    Perhaps the band was not interested in recording the intro for a compilation project. Perhaps the record company of the compilation vinyl was not interested either. This is more important than connecting this song with another. Who cares they were played at concert a or concert b. It has nothing to do with Metal for Muthas project.
     
  16. srfc

    srfc Ancient Mariner

    It's the process of elimination. Trying to identify when Maiden started using the taped version.

    Re: the Metal for Muthas project.

    The mystery studio version was obviously recorded professionally. Therefore when were they in a professional studio? That's the only reason for mentioning Metal for Muthas as it's one of the times we know they were in a studio between 5th Oct 1979 when it was being played live, and 31st May 1980 at St. Austell, which is the earliest gig mentioned in this thread where they used the mystery studio version. Yes, it's only speculation, but is that not interesting?

    According to this list, https://web.archive.org/web/20080303134259/http://maidenshows.ryasrealm.com/masterlist.htm

    bootlegs exist for
    14th Nov 1979 London (i think this is the BBC Rock show)
    2nd Feb 1980 Edinburgh
    7th Feb 1980 Wakefield
    13th Mar 1980 Leicester (I already checked this, IOM is not on it)
    1st Apr 1980 London
    5th Apr 1980 Belgium
    10th Apr 1980 Grimsby
    14th Apr 1980 Ruskin Arms

    It would be interesting to pin point as close as possible when the tape started being used.
     
  17. Forostar

    Forostar Ancient Mariner

    Alright, fair enough.

    I think they did not play it live anymore in 1980.
    The first and last and one and only bootleg that I know with The Ides of March played live is the Ruskin Arms gig, 5 October 1979.

    Others that I know of, either do not have Ides at all, or it is a tape.

    I do not have that many bootlegs. Only two from the seventies and eight from 1980. The oldest concert that I have with Ides and as a tape is:
    Maiden Voyage, Wakefield Unity Hall, 7 February 1980.

    I do not know bootlegs between 5 October '79 and 7 February '80. Well, yeah I know one: Tiffany's Club, 4 February 1980, but this does not have Ides on it.

    So, yeah it is possible that it was recorded at the Metal for Muthas session, but it could also be recorded @ the BBC. Or somewhere else (we cannot exclude that possibility for 100%).
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  18. Forostar

    Forostar Ancient Mariner

    @Magnus
    @srfc @Luisma

    I got the answer to the mystery. The studio version of Ides that we hear in early 1980 bootlegs was most probably recorded during the debut album recording sessions!

    1. It first appeared in a time Clive was already in the band. 2. Therefore it is not illogical that he himself plays on it. And last but not least: 3. Maiden recorded their debut album before the oldest appearance of Ides as a tape.

    So: highly unlikely and I daresay, almost impossible that it was recorded at Metal for Muthas.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  19. Forostar

    Forostar Ancient Mariner

    Luisma, you said:
    So yeah I guess there was a debut album session version and a Killers album version. Therefore I think Loopy was kinda half right.
     
    Luisma likes this.
  20. Forostar

    Forostar Ancient Mariner

    @Luisma @srfc @Magnus

    Another possibility:

    From album page on wiki:

    Before the sessions with Malone, the band made two attempts in December 1979 with two different producers while still a four-piece.[3] Guy Edwards, the first, was dismissed as the band were unhappy with the "muddy" quality in his production,[3] while Andy Scott was sacked after insisting that Harris play his bass with a pick rather than his fingers.[5]

    So if that is correct, Maiden was in the studio three times after Muthas&BBC and before the appearance of the studio version! Still think it is the album session, if we believe Clive is on it. He never played in Maiden with a four piece. That was Sampson.
     
    Luisma likes this.

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