The Guitar Players Thread - Help each other play Maiden songs

Discussion in 'Musicians Discussion' started by The Nomad, Oct 7, 2015.

  1. The Nomad

    The Nomad Nomad

    I figured I'd make some kind of 'official' thread where guitar players can ask for help in transcribing and playing Maiden songs. It would be great if this helps us grow a sense of larger guitar playing community so we can get help faster with learning the songs we want to play. I found out Ultimate Guitar wasn't a very good place to ask for tab help, sometimes you have to wait days for someone to help you out, other times you get no replies at all. Which is odd, since its a large forum for... guitar players. But then again not everyone listens to the same music there.
    The thing we have here in common is that we are all Maiden fans and we all listen to their songs.

    Now for my current question: I'm in the middle of learning the first solo in 2 Minutes To Midnight. I do this by slowing the song down in the program Audacity. I want to ask a more general question related to this. The thing I noticed is how some notes are almost impossible to make out even if you slow the thing down by a million times. Are these supposed to be 'mistakes' or 'unclear' playing by the guitarists?
    If I had to form a theory on this I would say because these guys are so talented that when they play solos they don't exactly tab them out note for note beforehand but just play naturally and this sometimes result in 'half-played notes' or random hand movements around the neck. How should I handle these segments? I'm kind of a perfectionist so it kinda frustrates me when I listen to a particular phrase for over 100 times and still can't map out how to exactly play it. What should be my approach to this issue?
  2. Maturin

    Maturin Sköldpadda

    Tablature/notation is covered under copyright, so I'm not sure how the moderators view sharing such on this forum.

    To answer your question, many of their solos are improvised, yes. You can choose to waste hours trying to play everything note for note, but why bother? They don't even do that live themselves! Some are closer than others, but when was the last time you heard Adrian play his "Wasted Years"-solo anywhere near to what he does on the album? And he's considered the perfectionist among the three.

    Playing a guitar-solo involves a lot of movements that you've repeated to the point of them being automatic/to a degree unconscious, if that makes sense - not even a super-human could consciously 'choose' to play every note. It's kind of like learning a language, when writing this I don't have to stop and consider every word - the important ones, perhaps (to make sure I get the right meaning across), but not every "a" or "the" or space between the words. I just know how to string together a sentence (hopefully). The better you become, the less errors you make and the more you can step out and do something different you haven't done exactly like that before without screwing up.

    My advice: Make a broad appromixation at what they play, just like about every musician and guitarplayer learning stuff by ear has done in the history of rock music. That's how you develop your own style, and the better you get at hearing stuff (from getting it beaten into your head by the endless repetition of hearing/playing it over and over, basically), the closer your renditions will have the chance of being, should you choose/want them to be. Furthermore, some phrases are next to impossible to make out from a recording, so you'll have to guess, look at live footage or other people covering the same thing to get an idea of what is actually done. The more knowledge and experience you have, the greater the chance is that your guess will be right - or at least suitably close/good sounding.

    I know many beginners who are stuck with the perception of having to learn stuff note for note, but the sooner you let go of that, the sooner your playing will take off.
  3. Mosh

    Mosh The years just pass like trains Staff Member

    I'm pretty sure most guitarists don't tab their stuff out beforehand.

    The problem for learning things note for note (especially with more improv oriented guitarists like Dave and Janick) is that you end up putting more thought into it than what the guitarists actually did when they played it initially.

    If I could give some advice: Imitating your favorite guitar players is a great idea when starting out. It gives you a point of reference and from there you can develop your own voice. Keep transcribing solos by ear, that's the best way to get into a player's head. You'll develop a vocabulary from there too. It's a big difference from reading off a tab, which is a more mindless exercise, at least from my experience. Also consider tone and phrasing. Try to pick out fine details like legato and staccato playing. Think less about getting every note right, but think more about nailing the feel of the solo. That's a larger challenge anyway. I can't tell you how many times I've looked at guitar covers on youtube (this happens especially with Dream Theater) and they get the song note for note perfect, but it's played so mechanically. What's the point of that?
    Brigantium likes this.
  4. The Nomad

    The Nomad Nomad

    I thank you both for your input. I'll take your advice into my playing. I hope to write a more lengthy response sometime later, but I can't promise anything.
  5. SinisterMinisterX

    SinisterMinisterX Illuminatus Staff Member

    We have an entire forum devoted to it... but no one has posted in the Tab Archive in four years. Don't bother starting now; the mods are planning to delete that forum since no one ever uses it anymore.

    Regarding copyright: tablatures are created by fans, not by the band. They're not a copyright issue for us.

    UG is more of a repository than a real guitar site.

    Even if a note is fudged, it's almost always intended to be a note from the scale the guitarist is using. So most of the time, the intent ought to be clear... unless they're fudging in one of the scale spots where two notes are a half-step apart. Put the song back on full speed and it's usually clearer what's going on; listening to a half-speed version too much can twist your mental image of what's going on.
  6. Maturin

    Maturin Sköldpadda

    Eh? Admittedly not mylespaulforum, but a useful and very active forum nonetheless.

    It is legally. Any site hosting tablature, even user created, need licensing, including UG. It's the same principle as with lyric reproduction.
  7. Mosh

    Mosh The years just pass like trains Staff Member

    The UG forum is a hellhole. The only thing that site is good for is it has a large tab database. I'd stay far away from everything else on there.

    This is a good point too. I would only suggest slowing down the track for very fast short runs. And even then, you should be able to at least find the starting and end notes to a fast run. If you know your scales, you could probably even figure out the rest without having to slow down. Maiden guitarists rarely go outside the basic scales.

    Edit: I take some of that back. UG's lessons section has some good stuff.
  8. Maturin

    Maturin Sköldpadda

    Nah, it's probably the guitar forum with widest audience on the internet (everything from beginners to the experienced), but if you know the regulars who know their stuff, it's not that bad. You get answers fast, and from a wide range of people - which means you get more varied opinions and answers than you'd typically get on more homogenous forums.
  9. Deanatron

    Deanatron Can I play with Agnes?

    Question for all you guitar players...I've been messing about trying to create some Maiden patches for my Line 6 floorboard. I've got a lovely sounding clean tone & a rhythm tone that seems to work but I'm struggling on a decent lead tone - I've got some delay & reverb in there and a tube screamer style boost on but it sounds a bit weak to me. Anyone got any tips? what FX do you use when soloing along to Maiden?
  10. Saapanael

    Saapanael "Get a life, punk!"

    Before applying any effects, try to get a decent try tone. FX don't make a good tone out of a crap one. I'd say a good way to approach a lead tone is to get enough mids and then find a balance for the low/high end. Not too boomy on the low side, not too sharp on the treble. It's good to keep the gain a bit lower than maximum. It's not easy to find a good lead tone, I've been trying to do it with my amp for some years and only now am I starting to really understand how it works.
  11. Srogyy

    Srogyy Ancient Mariner

    You listed all the effects I would use. Try adding a compressor, but if it sounds weak with all the effects, it's a matter of the amp. Maybe it has not enough gain. Are you using a real amp or some kind of Line6 simulation? If the latter and you picked a Marshall-esque model then I guess it would sound weak indeed... Try modern amps. I know it's not something Maiden use, but honestly when using digital modellig you shouldn't stick strictly to what the manufacturer calls a copy of certain real gear you like. Also don't cut too much mids. Some guitarist tend to boost trebles as much as they can but it's not something which makes you pierce through the mix well.
  12. Deanatron

    Deanatron Can I play with Agnes?

    Thanks, I'll try playing with the mids. How would you (roughly) set those FX?

    Yeah I'm using a Marshall 800 style amp simulation (same as my rhythm patch).

    My playing probably doesn't help tbh, I'm not much of a lead guy!
  13. Deanatron

    Deanatron Can I play with Agnes?

    Thanks - yeah I basically copied my rhythm patch and added FX - that's probably a lot of the issue. Will definitely give this a try :)

    It's a never ending search for tone! Worth it though - I find when it sounds / feels right I seem to play 10 times better!
    Saapanael likes this.
  14. Srogyy

    Srogyy Ancient Mariner

    So first try that Marshall with more gain. If it doesn't help, I really recommend using some kind of modern amp. I don't know what's there to choose... Perhaps a MESA simulation? As for the EQ I would set everything to noon and cut just a little bit of mids and lows to start... Never anything extreme. Remember to put Tube Screamer before the amp. After the amp is where you should put delay and reverb. I think that 'diluted' delay is good for Maiden lead tones, so make sure the echoes are not crystal clear, but rather something like an ambience which just lengthens the note. You know, it's hard to make suggestions without hearing it... ;) Maybe you could record some samples.
  15. Deanatron

    Deanatron Can I play with Agnes?

    I shall try all these ideas, thank you sirs!
  16. Srogyy

    Srogyy Ancient Mariner

    Let us know how it sounds!
  17. Saapanael

    Saapanael "Get a life, punk!"

    It also depends on which guitarist's sound you're going for. Dave usually has a smoother, rounder, mid-rangy tone while Adrian tends to have a bit more of that top-end bite. Concerning FX, Dave sometimes uses chorus on top of the regular reverb+delay. In the end it all comes down to preferences - I, for one, am not a big fan of reverb and usually only use delay to fatten up a lead tone.
  18. Deanatron

    Deanatron Can I play with Agnes?

    To be honest I'm not after exact tones, just an all round set of patches to play along to the majority of Maiden stuff.

    I went back as above and tweaked my rhythm tone (boosted mids etc) for a decent lead sound before switching the effects back on and even though the changes are subtle it's made a big difference, so thanks guys!

    Now I just need to get the playing of the solos right, haha!
  19. Hello. I just committed the newbie sin of not fully reading the thread, but if you want to make a lead tone based on your rhythm tone, what you should do is use the same patch but boost the mids. You have essentially the same tone, but it sounds more up front.

    Also, always have in mind the rest of the band when designing your tone. Don't put too much low end or else you'll have a hideous ball of the low end with the guitar, bass and kick overloading the sound so much that you can't even hear the treble. In fact players who first work with a good engineer are usually surprised at how the tones that better sit in a mix usually sound weak and boxy by themselves.

  20. Deanatron

    Deanatron Can I play with Agnes?

    Thanks man, these are home tones only, my band days are currently behind me. You're right about tones with a full band though, what sounds great at home does not work at practice/gigs.

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