THE CRUSADE OF EPICS: Results -> A Change Of Seasons wins!

Mind you, I really love ATTWS, but if I were to criticise it, well, I'll drop this one here:

JudasMyGuide said:
Part of my personal problem with a lot of 80's/90's prog-metal epics (including the ever-beloved Divine Wings of Tragedy or A Change of Seasons) is that the music doesn't really progress much - it's more of a hodgepodge mess of ideas strung together, sometimes with the overall intention to make them escalate the tension within the song logically, sometimes not (the "tripping the light fantastic" should - by the internal logic - be the climax of ACOS, near its end, like for example the "Triumphant, champion of Ithaca" part of The Odyssey ... but you get another almost ten minutes after that) and Metropolis is definitely an example of that. It sounds great, the individual parts are nice and I can respect it, just as I respect Outcry (which - as its "follower" - has similar completely nonsensical wankery section which is just so great to listen to), but as a whole it just can't work as one of the bests.

For all the talk about how... e.g. Endless Sacrifice makes no sense with random noodlings in the middle, it's actually the complete opposite - even in the instrumental part almost every individual passage logically grows out of / reacts to the previous one which is very well noticeable especially if you concentrate on the backing riffs and such - with all of it culminating in that "All you've forsaken" part and the final chorus, which brings an emotional catharsis. It has many times over been decried as an example of DT "wankery" getting in their songwriting, but it's actually a particularly well-written song, including the "wanking" parts.

Even some of the other latter DT epics, like Count of Tuscany or ITPOE, which both do have parts that shift gears rather abruptly, it still makes much more of a cohesive whole, allowing for familiarity, playing with motives (in different instrumentation even) and in general working really well; much of the early stuff is indeed hard to remember - so kudos to them for being able to play it live - but not particularly substantial, methinks.
And, like, Scarred is just a wreck in that regard.

That might explain why I'd take even the 12-step suite, for example, over some of the "classics".

On the other hand some of the obviously separated songs put together in a "cluster" of sorts (A Mind Beside Itself, SDOIT) can actually work, because sometimes these bring out the best in one another in their "intertextuality". Sometimes with actual repetition of certain themes and moods (the "preview" to The Silent Man in the middle of Erotomania might be one of the most beautifully poignant moments in DT discography in general) or with kinda ingenious sequence to the moods (from the hectic and nervous War/Test That Stumped to the numbing and gentle and depressing Goodnight Kiss to an actual campfire hope ascending in Solitary Shell) which again, is kinda lacking in those early epics, because of not enough "repetition and previews" or lesser variation of moods (because these are much more unified, genre-wise, which limits their amount of "moodiness")

And it's not just thing of the past - The Seventh Wonder, for example, though I love them, have this exact problem, which culminated in the title track to The Great Escape which is mostly just 30 minutes of (admittedly very beautiful) meandering.
(just for the record, the same goes for Blind Guardian's And Then There Was Silence - kick-ass individual parts, not much sense as a whole)
Click to expand...

I know that most of you will probably not agree, but yeah, "beautiful meandering", that about sums it up for me. No build-up, no rational structuring, it's all just everything and the kitchen sink thrown together. It works, but as an epic it feels bloated, because not just there's not enough familiarity through repetition (I wouldn't mind that - every through-composed work is like that, just look at Puccini!), but also the progression doesn't make sense, it's more of this Frankenstein of ideas that goes nowhere. Credit to BG for actually making it sound as well as it does, I admit it's really great, but I love a lot of the other tracks off that album much more (Under the Ice, Precious Jerusalem, Sadly Sings Destiny), and not the least because they have much clearer intent.

Also I admit that the lack of proper build-ups and subdued sections might be also because of the general Blind Guardian paradigm - they can't do subtle and their "subdued" sections feel just as loud and just as overproduced as the "proper" ones, so that might be at play as well, but it's not just that.
 
JudasMyGuide said:
it's more of this Frankenstein of ideas that goes nowhere.
Click to expand...
Funny, this is exactly what I think of “Rediscovery (Part 2) - The New Mythology”, with the exception that it goes somewhere. As a song it’s little more than a bunch of pieces thrown together in an attempt to tie up the album... and yet it does tie it up, tremendously well, and I love it a lot. It’s one of those instances where I’m like — does it feel like a song? Not really? Maybe? Is it fucking awesome? Yes. Yes it is.
 
Blind Guardian is so all over the place, I survived three minutes. Leah is a bit default and by-the-book but it's less annoying than BG.

On second listen, they're both annoying. Just eliminate them both. :blueangel:
 
Midnight said:
Personally, I don't think of this one as a standalone epic in the usual sense. It's more like a giant finale to a 60-minute piece.
Click to expand...
Yeah that’s true too. The whole of V: The New Mythology Suite could be considered one 60 minute song with thirteen different sections.
 
I really really don't like A Night At The Opera. Hansi really overdid the choir thing on that album. Hell, overdid is a soft word to describe how much he fucked with the choirs there. And Then There Was Silence is the biggest offender on the album considering it's length. The song isn't catchy at all, only some parts and riffs around the 2nd minute are cool. Thank fuck they calmed down a bit after this album.

Leah does the "woah-oh-ah-ah" thing too much, but it's a much more enjoyable song. Mostly because it doesn't have 1000 Hansis screaming at the same time. It does sound like Nightwish light, but that's fine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jer
i7QzNSH.jpg


Results of Round 4:
Leah - The Quest
Blind Guardian - And Then There Was Silence

Alestorm - Sunset On The Golden Age (Nominated by @Diesel 11, @Lampwick 43)
vs.
Porcupine Tree - Arriving Somewhere But Not Here (Nominated by @The Flash)
 
Already listened to both of these via the GMAC.

The Alestorm track has weak vocals, cheesy synth horns, and a somewhat cheesy chorus, but its fundamentals are otherwise sound. Seaworthy, but nowhere near being a man-of-war.

The Porcupine Tree track shows a lot more finesse and craftsmanship, with better songwriting, better vocals, and a much more interesting musical journey.

Sorry, Dampwick 11, but @The Flash ’s nominee takes this one easily. Winner: Porcupine Tree
 
I love Alestorm. I was really excited to see how this song would do in this tournament. Arriving Somewhere is on another level, though.
 
I got into Sabaton and Alestorm around the same time. I’d known them for a while, but they never clicked with me. And then suddenly they did, and added a new part to my music palette that I never knew I needed. One sang of wars and battles and history and triumph; the other was a fuckin’ pirate outfit. Neither were truly great but they knew how to write songs that kicked ass. And both had albums that transcended them as artists. Sabaton had Carolus Rex, a full-scale concept record about the rise and fall of the Swedish Empire which taught me more about world history than school ever did. And Alestorm had Sunset On The Golden Age, which kept their classic sing alongs about alcohol and pirate-y shit but also saw them pushing themselves further than you ever expected to go. And after those two albums, both bands seemed happy to just sort of... rest on their laurels. Sabaton seem content to just keep singing about how “we remember [insert historical figure here]”, and Alestorm... as much as I like “Fucked With An Anchor”, it’s a fluke. The less they take themselves seriously (not that they ever did, but there seemed to be more inspiration once upon a time) the less the music seems all that interesting. But on Sunset, Alestorm managed to show that they could be more than just jokesters. They wrote two epics. One was a monster that seemed to take some inspiration from Sabaton and retell a battle from the War of Jenkins’ Ear — “1741 (The Battle Of Cartagena)”, their best song to date. And the other was an epic nearly twelve minute behemoth that went far beyond anything they had ever written prior — “Sunset On The Golden Age”, their second best song to date.

“Sunset” takes the Alestorm formula and really turns it on its head. Where once they would’ve just sung stuff like “The sun sinks in the sky / Now we all shall die / I’ll take a swig and sing of the tale / Our final ship sets sail” or “No more wenches and no more beer / That was the thing I really did fear / This pirate lets out one final rage / Sunset on the golden age”, this time they stretched their lyrical skills to pen a tale utterly bleak, like you’re sailing into the sunset, into the great unknown, off the edge of the world, and it is BRILLIANT. It’s so heavy, so much weight to it, and it also manages to sneak into a classic but mournful Alestorm chorus in to seal the deal. And the outro, a fantastic little soundscape, damn. This is the Alestorm I wish we could see more of, because it is much better than the path they’re on currently.

Now with all that said, I had never heard “Arriving Somewhere But Not Here” before, and I loved it. There’s a lot of shades here, some light brush strokes, some much more powerful. Very lush, but also knowing when to pick up more. That break into the heavy riffing took me by surprise but it was excellently utilized. And I love the verses and that “mini-chorus” that ends them. I know it’ll probably beat Alestorm, but even though I’m voting for my own submission, I won’t be too sad if this one moves on instead.

Sunset On The Golden Age.*
*but the other one is great, too.
 
Alestorm are very hit and miss for me. I love the first album - every song is awesome there and the production kills. But afterwards I can barely name enough good songs for one full album. I never really cared for this song, but I quite liked it when I heard it in this round. Good production, tolerable vocals (Bowes' vocals are really more suited for jokey stuff than more serious songs like this one). Keyboards are pretty cool throughout the song, and while there's nothing unexpected in it, or a big climax at the end, I still like it more than Stevie Wilson'song.

Stevie, I mean, Porcupine Tree, is uninteresting musically and the vocals are bland and annoying. First half of the song basically does one rhythm without changing anything for like 6 minutes. Second half tries to be Opethy a little bit, but it fails miserably. Third half is boring af, just some random noodling with a boring drum beat. Arriving Nowhere, more like.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top