Senjutsu - 3rd September 2021

Jadukor

Can I play with Agnes
Regarding the double album question: we can all go on and on about how the band is writing longer songs because they want to, but at the end of the day the answer is marketing.

1. Release a double album
2. Make it more expensive than a regular album
3. Every album sold now counts as two records sold and adds up twice as fast on the charts
4. Chart higher
5. Advertise how great the album sold and how high it ranked on the charts
6. Sell more albums
This is a very cynical take on Maiden. They have never played for radio hits and commercial success and have stayed true to their music all these years.
 

Perun

Περούν Παντοκράτωρ
Staff member
This is a very cynical take on Maiden. They have never played for radio hits and commercial success and have stayed true to their music all these years.

There's nothing cynical about it, it's just realistic. Think about how much effort they're putting into selling us beer. Just because they don't do radio hit singles doesn't mean they don't treat their music like a marketable product. And so what?
 

Jadukor

Can I play with Agnes
There's nothing cynical about it, it's just realistic. Think about how much effort they're putting into selling us beer. Just because they don't do radio hit singles doesn't mean they don't treat their music like a marketable product. And so what?
Writing "longer" songs to sell two cds is questioning their integrity as musicians/artists. I believe they write music from a point of inspiration and not to add extra 5 minutes to add more runtime.

Beer and merchandise is different. They have a huge crew to pay for, and they make extra money off that.
 
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Yax

Ancient Mariner
Regarding the double album question: we can all go on and on about how the band is writing longer songs because they want to, but at the end of the day the answer is marketing.
3. Every album sold now counts as two records sold and adds up twice as fast on the charts
It's still like that? I thought they changed that 10 years ago or so, but I'm probably mistaken.
 

srfc

Ancient Mariner
It's still like that? I thought they changed that 10 years ago or so, but I'm probably mistaken.

I'd imagine so, as what about albums that aren't released physically. If a double album counts twice, would a non-existant physical album count as infinity sales?
 

Ironalice

Educated Fool
“We had a few ideas. We went into the studio and tried them out, and when they worked, we just recorded straight away. So while we were rehearsing, everything was being recorded – the tape was rolling the whole time."




“Steve would literally lock himself away for two or three days, and we’d all turn up and play pinball,” he continues. “And then he’d say, ‘I think I’ve got one, chaps. Oi! Everybody in the studio!’ Boom. The stuff I wrote with Adrian was a bit more conventional – we’d stand around and play guitar and sing and do that until we thought we had something. Then we’d rehearse it and put it straight down. It’s more organic, if you like. Steve tends to be quite detailed and meticulous in exactly how he wants it.”


This sounds so random to me. It is not that they are a punk band, we are talking about 12 minutes songs being recorded here. TWOTW is a solid track but nothing spectacular. I think Maiden still got great ideas but they tend to spend too little time in the arrangements and the elaboration of their music.

This Steve quote gives me hope tho. It does seem they put a collective effort into getting this album to where they wanted it.

"There’s some very complex songs on this album which took a lot of hard work to get them exactly as we wanted them to sound, so the process was at times very challenging, but Kevin is great at capturing the essence of the band and I think it was worth the effort! I’m very proud of the result "
 

MrKnickerbocker

clap hands
There's nothing cynical about it, it's just realistic. Think about how much effort they're putting into selling us beer. Just because they don't do radio hit singles doesn't mean they don't treat their music like a marketable product. And so what?
Exactly. Music is a product. Being a musician is a job. This is simply business.
Writing "longer" songs to sell two cds is questioning their integrity as musicians/artists. I believe they write music from a point of inspiration and not to add extra 5 minutes to add more runtime.

Beer and merchandise is different. They have a huge crew to pay for, and they make extra money off that.
I'm not arguing that each individual song is being written from a point of hoping to increase album sales, but in the old days bands used to either A. stop writing or B. cut songs from the final album. There is no need to self-edit in a world where more is always more.
It's still like that? I thought they changed that 10 years ago or so, but I'm probably mistaken.
As far as I know, it's still the same. Metallica's latest album was a double for that very reason.
I'd imagine so, as what about albums that aren't released physically. If a double album counts twice, would a non-existant physical album count as infinity sales?
As far as I know, digital downloads only count as one, which is why a physical sale of a double album or quadruple vinyl is even more important.
 

Jer

Love in anger
It's still like that? I thought they changed that 10 years ago or so, but I'm probably mistaken.
I'd imagine so, as what about albums that aren't released physically. If a double album counts twice, would a non-existant physical album count as infinity sales?
As far as I know, it's still the same. Metallica's latest album was a double for that very reason.

As far as I know, digital downloads only count as one, which is why a physical sale of a double album or quadruple vinyl is even more important.
I touched on this and linked to the RIAA criteria here:
 

TheTalisman

Ancient Mariner
15 years later I still skip the track, when Bruce sounds like a broken record, going through the choruses again and again and again!!! :)
Well, I think the chorus in "For the Greater Good of God" is meant to represent "human suffering" - that is what the song is all about anyway to me, to canalise that feeling, you know make a clear point about the message that is presented during the verses? Bruce sounding strained during the chorus is just a part of this effort - it's a theatrical production.

But this song is not for everyone! It's definitely challenging. But if you pay attention to the message that is presented - I think you can grow to accept it.
 
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Oca

Educated Fool
Maiden as they are now are doing their best performance on epic tracks. When they have time to build the song, story and music over a longer period of time is more fulfilling to me than have them run through 4-5 min of standard NWOBHM stuff. I’d argue that all of the short songs since The Wickerman have been somewhat generic, lackluster and paled in comparison to the epic stuff. Maiden are truly brilliant when epic and somewhat boring and meh doing shorter songs. My personal opinion and not a cemented truth in any way. I.e Speed of Light is one of the worst Maiden songs I know, really hate it :)
 

Iron Lurker

Ancient Mariner
"Maiden is a cabaret act, they don't put out new music anymore"

"Maiden puts out too much new music, they are only interested in selling CDs"

With Eddie and their brand they have a goldmine marketing wise. Anyone would be stupid not to utilize that. But making money is bad, right? Especially if they have more money than you. Buy it, consume it (whatever the product) or don't....

Bruce is passionate about quality beer and he still works with the brewery and has a say in the development of all these beers, correct? It's not like a brewery came to them, bought a license to use their name, and then Maiden has fuck all to do with it.
 
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Fabio Maiden

Educated Fool
"Fun" fact:
Both TBOS and Senjutsu have got 3 tracks over a lenght of 10 minutes. No past album ever had this statistic. And now two albums in a row.
6 songs over 10 minutes, out of the last 21.
 
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