Queensryche & Geoff Tate

I'm the flip side of you; not the most well versed in Dream Theater, but I can answer why QR got tagged with the "prog" category.

One big reason is that they did a big concept album, which is a prog hallmark. But a bigger reason (or reasons) is that they used a lot of chord voicings, scales, harmonies, sounds, time signatures, and lyrical themes that were outside the bounds of what a lot of their contemporaries were doing (which was mostly blues- and minor-scale based).

Not on every song, and not so much on the first EP (which was pretty solid, but firmly in the minor-scale / Dungeons & Dragons lyrics mode - the CD release bonus track "Prophecy" was recorded during the Rage for Order sessions); but I can give a few examples from their early albums:

On Warning:
  • NM 156 - futuristic sound effects, tricky time signatures pretty much everywhere in the song except the chorus, parallel harmonies on the guitar lead (which can "go outside the scale" and sound dissonant at times compared to diatonic harmonies like Iron Maiden or Thin Lizzy uses), cyber-dystopian lyrics;
  • Deliverance - another tricky time signature on the main riff;
  • Take Hold of the Flame - add2 and sus2 chord voicings on the main riff, not common in metal at the time;
  • Roads to Madness - very long song with multiple sections that "progress" through different moods like a symphonic work; weird time signatures (I think I once counted that slow part with the background chanting as being either in 13s or 17s, I can't remember which).
On Rage for Order:
  • Gonna Get Close to You - actually a cover of an obscure Canadian female artist who reminds me a bit of a cross between Kate Bush and Tori Amos. But QR made this one of the hardest-edged and spookiest synth-based songs I ever heard before Trent Reznor got his job as a studio janitor. Synths in metal? Not very common before 1986 when QR, Maiden, and Priest all broke the barrier and made them semi-acceptable.(*) I'll put a checkbox in the prog column for that move.
  • Screaming In Digital - another creepy existential cyber-horror song with weird time signatures, sound effects, sus2 chords (DeGarmo loved these), and lots of synths.
  • Neue Regel - More cyber-dystopia, sound effects, nonstandard chord voicings, synths, etc.

[*] Edit: yes, synths were used in some 70s metal and hard rock - Sabbath, Zeppelin, Rush, and Hawkwind, for example. Even Deep Purple, if you consider a Hammond organ a kind of mechanical synthesizer, which it is. But only here and there in early-80s metal - "Mr. Crowley" and "Rainbow in the Dark" are the only examples I can think of off the top of my head. Maiden even had a tag line on the Piece of Mind liner notes - "No keyboards or ulterior motives."

NotePad said:
I'm not the most well versed in the works of Queensryche, but I've been wondering why exactly they always used to be compared to Dream Theater.

Maybe I haven't heard enough of or the right songs from their catalogue, but Queensryche sounds to me like they should be considered more Traditional Metal, like Maiden and Priest, instead of progressive metal like DT.
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Dream Theater kind of ruined the prog metal genre. Not the band's fault, more that they got insanely popular* (for prog standards) and defined the genre for a lot of people. For some, long songs/virtuosity = prog and Queensryche wasn't really about that. The fact is that bands like Queensryche and Fates Warning came before Dream Theater and deserve just as much credit. They were all part of the same scene, but one band happened to get really popular with a progressive song and were able to build a following around that.
 
AlexS said:
I'm the flip side of you; not the most well versed in Dream Theater, but I can answer why QR got tagged with the "prog" category (...)
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Thanks, this is really enlightening. I've wondered for ages what is supposed to be prog about 'Ryche, but I think I get the idea now.
 
I'm referring to "prog" in the sense of 70s prog-rock - e.g. Yes, Genesis, Nektar, Jethro Tull, King Crimson, Crack The Sky, etc. The definition of "prog" has expanded a bit with metal bands like Dream Theater, Savatage, Tool, and others pushing the musical virtuosity and heaviness towards the more extreme end, but it's all part of a tradition.

Perun said:
Thanks, this is really enlightening. I've wondered for ages what is supposed to be prog about 'Ryche, but I think I get the idea now.
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That's a good explanation. They're definitely not like DT prog. Although I'd argue some of their early stuff like Rage reminds me of Awake.
 
Does an album like Tribe contribute to their reputation as a progressive metal/rock band? Because it's a very different album for them, and isn't that what being progressive is all about?
 
NotePad said:
Does an album like Tribe contribute to their reputation as a progressive metal/rock band? Because it's a very different album for them, and isn't that what being progressive is all about?
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From Wikipedia:
The Tribe sessions (2003)

With an impending deadline to deliver their next album, and the band's strained internal relationships leaving them short on material, a call was placed to DeGarmo to see if he would be interested in contributing songs to the project. After a meeting with Tate, he agreed and took part in the sessions for Tribe, contributing the music to the songs "Falling Behind", "Doin' Fine" and "Art of Life", and co-writing the music to "Desert Dance" and "Open". DeGarmo had also written both the music and lyrics to the song "Justified", but it was not included on the album since he prematurely left the recording sessions. The song would later be included on the collector's edition of their 2007 greatest hits album, Sign of the Times. It is generally assumed that similar interpersonal problems as in 1997 are the cause for his second departure.
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Basically, this album is an aborted reunion album filled up with other compositions of varying quality (it appears on QR forums that "Losing Myself" is polarizing. As for me, I like it). This album focuses on some progressive elements (soundscapes and moods... but not as successfully as on Promised Land) while overlooking other typical prog tropes such as time changes and variations on themes.

Apart from that, it is the last band album until the self-titled one from 2012 (what happened in between was basically Geoff Tate plus hired hands - Scott Rockenfield and Michael Wilton hardly even PLAY on O:M2 for example).
 
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Did not realize that on part of the 30th anniversary tour back in 2011, they played RFO in its' entirety! Wish I could have seen that...
 
Same here. I just saw them last year and the only one I heard from RFO was The Whisper, which of course was epic! I'd love to hear Neue Regel, London, and Screaming in Digital!
 
Back over a decade ago when Queensryche remastered their catalog, this included the 1st classic EP. Was listening to that this morning. Just the bonus tracks though. They released a live VHS back early in their career that was recorded in Japan prior to the Warning being released. Finally now, on the remastered EP, is the audio of that concert! Geoff sounds SO strong back when he was young and new. The live versions of The Lady Wore Black and Queen of the Reich sound faithful to the studio versions (before they were "tweaked" and slightly changed for later performances). Best of all, the production puts the guitars in the correct speakers: Chris is in the right, Michael in the left (unlike the Operation Livecrime which has them switched). Finally, this is also the best way to tell which guitarist plays which lead on the early material.

BTW, I met Chris and Michael at a Sound Warehouse (remember them?) promoting Mindcrime (when they were opening for Metallica on the Justice tour). I asked them why they did not print lead guitar credits with the lyrics. They were both VERY concerned and wanted to know which song I was talking about. When I said "ALL OF THEM" they shrugged their shoulders and said "sure why not?". That led me to believe the next CD (which would be Empire) would finally print the lead guitar credits, but it did not. Guess they forgot...:mad:
 
Been listening to CH to prepare for concert in November and decided it was about time I bought the ST CD from 3 years ago. Just heard it for first time driving home and was disappointed. I like CH better. CH is heavier and I REALLY like the title track. The only song that really stood out for me from the ST CD was Don't Look Back, which they have never played live. Hopefully the ST CD will grow on me. I do agree with one reviewer that complained about the ST CD that Todd rarely says the name of the songs.
 
I hear you - I bought the 2013 self-titled album when it came out, but it rarely gets a spin and I can't even remember which tracks I like on it. Condition Human is a much better return to form, with a few standout memorable tracks: "Hellfire" is my overall favorite, but I doubt it will find its way into their live set anytime soon because the guitars are all downtuned a full step from standard, and the band has been traveling light the last couple years (all gear in one trailer, promoter even supplies speaker cabs) so it's unlikely there's room for the extra guitars they'd need.

terrell39 said:
Been listening to CH to prepare for concert in November and decided it was about time I bought the ST CD from 3 years ago. Just heard it for first time driving home and was disappointed. I like CH better. CH is heavier and I REALLY like the title track. The only song that really stood out for me from the ST CD was Don't Look Back, which they have never played live. Hopefully the ST CD will grow on me. I do agree with one reviewer that complained about the ST CD that Todd rarely says the name of the songs.
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Very similar setlist to winter 2016, with only a couple adds / drops.

Spoilers: Glad to see "Hellfire" and "Eye9" made it in; wish they'd bumped 1-2 more from the Empire album for either newer songs or older ones that hadn't been in the rotation for years, but I'm probably outvoted since that was their biggest seller. Heading out for the 2-hour drive to the Sacramento show in a couple hours. Never seen Armored Saint before and don't know them except for their reputation; looking forward to that. Not too pumped about the first opening act based on the couple of videos I watched; but at least it's better than when Warrant opened for them in 1989.

terrell39 said:
Queensryche started their tour last night with Armored Saint. Here is Queensryche setlist:
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Condition Human is an awesome album. This is definitely not progressive metal, just metal. And its great. I get the feeling they've never really tried to be prog unlike Dream Theater.

As I said earlier, CH is a classic metal album. I want to see them back on top. They used to be one of the big metal bands. I put them up there with Priest, Maiden, Helloween etc. I want to see them back up there.
 
Saw Queensryche last night. Seen them several times before but this was my first time with Todd singing. He did NOT disappoint. Great mix of old and new material. Large video screen in background next to Scott's drums that played various metal & horror images throughout the show. Sometimes it showed lyrics or LP covers. The club was PACKED and many times Todd said what a great crowd it was.

New material sounded great. Thankfully, they skipped the previous self titled LP (did not like that one). I wish they were playing the CH title track, but I guess it is too long.

Lead guitar credits:

Guardian and Arrow of Time: Michael
Eye 9: dual harmony/Parker
Hellfire: Michael all lead except last fast solo is Parker

They also played Screaming in Digital which was Parker/Michael (this song was the highlight of the night for me)

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/queensryche/2016/scout-bar-houston-tx-4bfa4b0a.html
 
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