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No More Lies

Discussion in 'Dance Of Death' started by LooseCannon, Feb 8, 2004.

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How good is No More Lies on a scale of 1-10?

  1. 10

    11.8%
  2. 9

    11.8%
  3. 8

    41.2%
  4. 7

    17.6%
  5. 6

    5.9%
  6. 5

    8.8%
  7. 4

    2.9%
  8. 3

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. 2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. 1

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. LooseCannon

    LooseCannon Yorktown-class aircraft carrier Staff Member

    This song...amazes me. Musically I love it. The synth in the background is so perfect. I love Janick's guitarwork in the back as well. (Can you guys tell I just bought new earphones?)

    Lyrically, I've been thinking about what it might mean. I could be either close or completely off...but some of the lines are very specific. This is gonna be a rambler, folks. Consider yourselves warned.

    There's a darkening sky before me
    There's no time to prepare
    Salvage a lost horizon
    But no regrets from me


    These lines suggest someone looking back on his life (no regrets...) but the sky (a metaphor for life) is darkening. I wonder if the lines should almost read "There's no time to prepare (to) salvage a lost horizon"...suggesting the man is almost dead...or is preparing to be.

    Maybe I'll be back some other day
    To live again just who can say
    In what shape or form that I might be
    Just another chance for me


    A possibility here is that the person is leaving. The line "In what shape or form..." perhaps he's expecting something to happen to him? In this aspect, "Just another chance" might mean his journey is going to give him another chance to succeed.

    A hurried time, no disgrace
    Instead of racing to conclusions
    And wishing all my life away
    No one can stop me now


    These lines suggest a course of action hastily chosen, perhaps a drastic action of sorts. "Instead of racing...life away" these lines fit together in going against the thread of the song so far. Maybe they're a backwards lament, or some advice this man was given. Either way, he seems to have rejected them, for no one can stop him now.

    Time is up, it couldn't last
    But there's more things I'd like to do
    I'm coming back to try again
    Someday, maybe, I'll wait till then


    Sound familiar?

    Home, far away, from the war, a chance to live again
    Home, far away, but the war, a chance to live again


    The mood, at least, is the same. The lines suggest the truth of his destination has been revealed to our adventurer, and he's thinking of going back to where he came. But he hasn't quite made his choice "I'll wait till then," he says.

    No More Lies, repeated, is pretty self explanatory...he is tired of being lied to.

    They're all sitting at my table
    Talking tall and drinking wine
    Their time is up just like me
    But they just don't know it yet


    Obviously these people are the cause of the man's upsetness. Now he's back to talking about death, suggesting these people are going to die as well. However, they're overconfident and can't see their own demise.

    So just a word of warning
    When you're in your deepest dreams
    There's nothing you can hide from
    I've got my eye on you


    A searing backlash at those people drinking their wine. A warning that their dreams can't hide them from death. He seems to be speaking as the reaper at this point, but exactly why? To understand this we have to keep looking.

    The clock is fast, the hour is near
    Eventful past is ever clear
    My life is set, the time is here
    I think I'm coming home


    The clock is the clock of life, the eventful past is someone's life flashing before their eyes. Their time is here, their life is set! Seems the time of death has come...and then the man decides..."I want to go home."

    Time is up, it couldn't last
    But there's more things I have to do
    I'm coming back to try again
    Don't tell me that this is the end


    Well, that's that for our poor adventurer. He's made his choice to leave, he has things to do at home, he wants to fix his life...but he's gone.


    I think this song isn't historically specific, but it refers to the idea of doing something foolish and leaving home...probably to go to war. The idea being that someone prepares themselves mentally but never (especially young men) actually realizes they can be slain. The chorus, no more lies!, refers to the propaganda used, or even the widespread belief in the glory of combat.

    Of course, I could be wrong.
     
  2. SinisterMinisterX

    SinisterMinisterX Illuminatus Staff Member

    'no More Lies'

    Nice work, LooseCannon!

    They're all sitting at my table
    Talking tall and drinking wine
    Their time is up just like me
    But they just don't know it yet


    For no particular reason, these lines always remind me of the scene near the end of Monty Python's Meaning Of Life where Death comes to the dinner party and none of the guests realize the implications at first.
     
  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    'no More Lies'

    The song No More Lies is about the last supper. In the Dance Of Death tour booklet Steve says, " This song is basically about the last supepr and what would happen if Jesus came back tommorow." Thats not the exact quote but its something along those lines. But if its about the last supper what are the lies?
    [!--emo&:blink:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/blink.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'blink.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    'no More Lies'

    Lyrically, this is perhaps the most intriguing song Steve has written. If Steve is to be believed, and the song is from the point of view of Jesus at the Last Supper, then a lot of interesting questions arise. What are the disciples "talking tall" about? I've never seen them depicted as braggarts or exaggeraters before, so this line is immediately captivating to me...

    The speaker (presumably Jesus) goes through sudden mood swings during the song, I think. He goes abruptly from being wistful ("maybe I'll be back some other day/ to live again, just who can say") to defiant a few seconds later ("no one can stop me now"); and he goes from observing his dinner guests to threatening them in the blink of an eye (from "they just don't know it yet" to "I've got my eye on you"). He seems like a much more emotional, tentative, human Jesus than I'm used to seeing, and I appreciate that ambiguity in his character very much. And this leaves open the question about what "no more lies" means -- it may be a rejection of the disciples' lies and human lies in general, that he's going to "come back" to restrain. Or it could be a reckoning with lies that he's told to himself.

    Meanwhile, there's a part of me that thinks this is really a song about Steve's divorce -- whether or not Steve realizes it himself. The emotional twists and turns of it just seem very evocative to me of the states a divorced man might find himself in. Just give the song a listen, or read through the lyric sheet with this in mind, and tell me what you think...
     
  5. LooseCannon

    LooseCannon Yorktown-class aircraft carrier Staff Member

    'no More Lies'

    Anyone else have the tour booklet? I couldn't get to Quebec. I can almost see what they're talking about here...almost, but it doesn't fit in my eyes.
     
  6. Onhell

    Onhell Mexican Revolutionary

    'no More Lies'

    I'm glad to see i'm not the only one that still plays with Legos! but about the song.... I agree with LooseCannon. I don't think it's Jesus at the Last Supper because of the line that says he'll return but doesn't know in what shape or form. "who can say in what shape or form" is the quote. It doesn't matter how you look at this, it just doesn't fit Jesus in any way. If you take it from the Christian perspective, He's God, so he can (and supposedly will) return, but he would know in what shape or form (technically a lamb). If this is the "human" Jesus, he is Jewish and the "coming back" he is talking about isn't the resurrection promised by God, it sounds more like the Hindu REENCARNATION. Because he talks about unfinished business and in Hindu religion, depending on what you did in life you come back as a human OR any other LIVING thing "who can say what shape or form" until you finally achieve enlightment and don't reencarnate ever again. Jesus doesn't fit with Hindu believes in that sense. [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--] To me it's just a man thinking about his life sick of the lies told by society and the people drinking wine could be false friends or family waiting for him to die to claim the testament. They are young and don't really think that they too will die one day "there time is up just like me, but they just don't know it yet." It reminds me of "As soon as you're born, you're dying" from the 7th son album.
     
  7. SinisterMinisterX

    SinisterMinisterX Illuminatus Staff Member

    'no More Lies'

    Wait a second, I just realized something!
    The clock is fast, the hour is near...
    If his clock is running fast, then it's gotten ahead of the correct time, and that means the hour isn't as near as he thinks! [!--emo&:p--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

    On a more serious note: Allow me to pursue the idea that this song is about Jesus at the Last Supper, but not necessarily from an entirely Christian perspective - meaning, viewpoints that may contradict the Biblical account are acceptable.

    Jesus would likely have been viewed as a revolutionary by both Jews and Romans, a man whose goals included freeing the Jews from Roman occupation. There are plenty of scholars who have put this position forward before, but I'm too lazy to look up references right now. Anyway, the apostles would also have believed that Jesus was going to bring them political freedom in addition to spiritual enlightenment.

    The Last Supper occurred during a trip to Jerusalem, and Jesus had made plain before that this trip would be climactic in some way or another. Thus the apostles probably thought their freedom from Rome was imminent, and they were talking about how great it would be (wouldn't you, in that situation?). But since Jesus has something else in mind, he thinks:
    They're all sitting at my table
    Talking tall and drinking wine
    Their time is up just like me
    But they just don't know it yet


    Nonetheless, Jesus has not yet directly squashed the rumors that he may have some political action in mind. But with the Crucifixion approaching, he'd better do it quick if he going to do it at all. Thus the chorus:
    No more lies! No more lies!

    And why wouldn't he know what shape or form he might take after resurrection? Because he's half-human. He obviously had doubts and fears about the whole plan - that's what the Gethsemane episode is all about. He knows the general idea but not the specifics.

    I still prefer to think of this song in more general terms, about some non-specific man facing his death or some similar major life change. But I think this Jesus idea is plausible and internally consistent, so long as absolute slavish devotion to the Bible isn't required.

    [span style=\'font-size:8pt;line-height:100%\']Dang, that's a long post ... almost (but not quite) LooseCannon long! [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--][/span]
     
  8. Onhell

    Onhell Mexican Revolutionary

    'no More Lies'

    I disagree, If you don't hold on to the Bilble what are you going to hold on to? there are no other texts aside from the gospels (the ones in the bible the gnostic, mystic etc etc) expect for very few roman records that show evidence of A Jesus but maybe not THE Jesus. The Koran does have a few childhood stories of Jesus but other than that where are you going to get the evidence. Also Jesus can't be half-human in any way. He is fully human and fully divine. So Jesus does not fit in this song at all. It's like saying, "This song can be about God if you forget he's all-powerful, all-knowing and present in past, present and future." It simply does not fit. So like I said, Even if it is About the "human" Jesus, there isn't enough there to convince me.
     
  9. SinisterMinisterX

    SinisterMinisterX Illuminatus Staff Member

    'no More Lies'

    I think it depends on your religion, Onhell. You are evidently a Christian, so you're going to have opinions which mesh with those beliefs. I am not a Christian (I am a Buddhist), so I naturally have other opinions about Jesus and the veracity of the Bible. That doesn't mean that either one of us is absolutely right or wrong - it's all interpretation. Just like if I think of this song as being about the Buddha, I suddenly have a very different opinion of it, and I'm sure it would be different from yours.

    Actually, now that I mention it, this song could be about the Buddha...

    There's a darkening sky before me, there's no time to prepare
    Salvage a last horizon, but no regrets from me

    Before he attained enlightenment, the Buddha had tried two other spiritual paths in search of truth and found nothing. He was very frustrated with the search, which is perhaps captured in these lines.

    Maybe I'll be back some other day to live again just who can say
    In what shape or form that I might be, just another chance for me

    Two ways of looking at this: Siddhartha (the name of the pre-enlightenment Buddha) came from a Hindu tradition and would have believed in reincarnation, just as Buddhists and Hindus still believe today. That's the obvious reference, but there's another idea too. Buddhist tradition holds that there is not one Buddha, but rather a new Buddha comes to teach humanity every 6000 years. Maybe the Buddha is thinking of who he might be 6000 years from this time.
    [span style=\'font-size:8pt;line-height:100%\']If you're counting, the next Buddha should arrive around 5400 AD.
    And yes, I believe in reincarnation. Think that's silly? I happen to think that believing in resurrection is silly. [!--emo&:p--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--] [/span]

    A hurried time, no disgrace, instead of racing to conclusions
    And wishing all my life away, no-one can stop me now

    Siddhartha one day sat down under a banyan tree and vowed to meditate until he reached enlightenment - no sleeping, eating, moving etc. or in other words, "no one can stop me now!"

    Time is up, it couldn't last but there's more things I'd like to do
    I'm coming back to try again someday maybe I'll wait till then

    Buddhist tradition holds that once the Buddha became enlightened, there was no more purpose for him on this earth if he only considered himself. Mara (the Buddhist and Hindu equivalent of Satan) tempted him to enter Nirvana right there and then - in other words, die. The Buddha rejected this path, and chose to live and pass his wisdom on to others. That's what makes him the Buddha - his desire to help others, not just his enlightenment alone.

    They're all sitting at my table, talking tall and drinking wine
    Their time is up just like me, but they just don't know it yet
    So just a word of warning when you're in your deepest dreams
    There's nothing you can hide from, I've got my eye on you

    This part is a little harder to work with, but the reference to "your deepest dreams" is interesting. The Buddha taught that most people live life like it's a dream, that you have to awaken spiritually before you can progress towards Nirvana. However, the somewhat nasty attitude towards other people in this verse is totally uncharacteristic of how the Buddha is said to have behaved.

    I guess in the end I don't think it fits the Buddha very well, just like a Christian might think it doesn't fit Jesus very well. Like I said before, it's all interpretation and opinion anyway.

    One of the reasons this song is so great is that these lyrics could be about anyone. Who's never had major changes in their life? Who's never had thoughts at least similar to these lyrics? I could probably apply them to Moses or Muhammed or any other religious figure and offend everybody, eventually. [!--emo&:p--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

    [span style=\'font-size:8pt;line-height:100%\']Now that's LooseCannon long![/span]
     
  10. Onhell

    Onhell Mexican Revolutionary

    'no More Lies'

    THAT i can agree with SMX. because, like I said, the song expresses more Hindu and Buddhist believes, like reincarnation, than Jewish or Christian. That is why I'm stuborn about the song not being about Jesus, even if it's the human Jesus, He's jewish, not hindu or buddhist, reencarnation is out of the question. Glad we finally made some progress!
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    'no More Lies'

    Here's Steve Harris, from the DOD Tour Book:

    "No More Lies has a lot to do with the last supper. But its also as if Jesus was going to make a comeback tomorrow and what that might mean for him as an individual."

    Now we may quibble with Steve's understand and/or interpretation of theology, and/or we may suppose that there's more to the song than Steve lets on. But it seems clear at least that he wrote these lyrics with Jesus in mind.

    With that in mind, I think I'm in the same boat as SinisterMinisterX -- I see this song as both a novel consideration of Jesus's last interaction with his disciples, and as a more general portrait of a man at a crossroads, weighing his past and considering his future.

    Reading the song as the late reflections of Jesus, I really enjoy those ambiguities that give Onhell such pause.
    Maybe I'll be back some other day
    To live again just who can say
    In what shape or form that I might be
    Just another chance for me

    To me these are the words of a Jesus who doesn't really know what's going to happen next. And to that extent, at least, I think it squares with the bible just fine. After all, if Jesus knew the Resurrection was coming, why would he say on the cross, "Why hast thou forsaken me?"

    What's more intriguing to me (and maybe more controversial, once you take it apart) about these lines and similar lines in the song is the apparent selfishness of Jesus's motives -- "another chance for me"; "there's more things I'd like to do"; etc. Like the disciples' "talking tall," this is a much different way of thinking of Jesus than I'm accustomed to, and I always think a fresh perspective on well-known stories is valuable.

    Meanwhile... these same lines (and others) continue to point me in the direction of divorce. Divorce is a kind of metaphorical death, and a natural point at which both to look back on the past and to wonder about whether "another chance" or a comeback in some other "shape or form" is available -- e.g., whether you can correct problems in your life that could have contributed to divorce, whether and how you can continue to relate to your kids, and whether or not you can love and be loved by someone new after so many years.

    This idea also helps me make sense of that peculiar wine drinking verse, and the odd way it changes halfway through.
    They're all sitting at my table, talking tall and drinking wine
    Their time is up just like me, but they just don't know it yet
    So just a word of warning, when you're in your deepest dreams
    There's nothing you can hide from, I've got my eye on you

    I imagine this man who's just coming out of divorce proceedings, having some friends over for dinner, and as he watches them carrying on he sees hints of the rifts between them, things that will eventually drive them apart. He didn't recognize these things before -- but now that his divorce is hitting home, he's looking at them with new eyes. So now he notices the flaws in his friends that he didn't notice before.

    Then he notices himself noticing -- he realizes that he understands, now, the things that go wrong in people's lives, and things that have gone wrong in his life. And at that moment he turns inward and starts talking to himself: "there's nothing you can hide from, I've got my eye on you." He's vowing to use his new perceptions to keep himself honest in whatever future lies ahead, which ultimately feeds directly into the refrain of No More Lies.
     
  12. Onhell

    Onhell Mexican Revolutionary

    'no More Lies'

    That divorce thing was very interesting. And it does make sense. Now, granted that yes, Harris is no Theologean (neither am I but that's what i'm working towards) and I am starting to take a more Eastern approach to Jesus in this song. SMX made me think about it, Jesus is an Enlightened man....but still just a man, with worries, desires, etc. And his selfish comments are controversial which is why I keep insisting it is not about Him. you mentioned him saying on the cross "why hast Thou Forsaken me?" *crack fingers* [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--] Remember He is Jewish, and knows the old testament by heart. When you are with your friends and something funny comes up and a couple of days later you mention the punch-line, that is enough for everybody involved to get the joke (an inside joke). You don't have to repeat the entire situation, just a phrase or word and they get it. Well.....if you have a bible handy (any version) if not look it up online but read Psalm 22. It should be quite a shocker. He said that phrase as a statement of victory....not dispair. BUT READ PSALM 22. And you too will understand. [!--emo&:rock:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/headbang.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'headbang.gif\' /][!--endemo--] p.s i'm not a bible pusher but this is sef-explanatory.
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    'no More Lies'

    Now you can read other visitors' comments on 'No More Lies' as well as post your own. Any contribution to the commentary will be much appreciated, may it be cultural references relevant to the song (links to related websites, interpretations that may have been overlooked in the Commentary, and the like) or personal essays related to the topic of the song. Just be aware that messages that are either off-topic or too wacky may be deleted.
     
  14. gor

    gor Ancient Mariner

    'no More Lies'

    I think it [death] is something in people's minds, at certain points in their existence. And the idea of what could happen afterwards; whether you believe in life after death. It's something most people are scared of, and it's something some people are not scared of. I don't know, but I think I'm only saying, it's like fear of the dark or something a lot of people are afraid to admit to. I think people are scared of the unknown or intrigued by it, and therefore it's quite a potent thing.

    Steve

    [a href=\'http://www.shakenstir.co.uk/feature.php?a=80&pg=3\' target=\'_blank\']http://www.shakenstir.co.uk/feature.php?a=80&pg=3[/a]
     
  15. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    'no More Lies'

    I'll comment more in-depth on this sometime later, but I must mention this curiosity:
    I was listening to the intro, and a plane was flying high above my house at the same time so there was a quiet thunder to be heard beneath the intro. It sounded fantastic!
     
  16. dogigniter

    dogigniter Ancient Mariner

    'no More Lies'

    I like No More Lies. It carries a lot of power and force. The lyrics are meaningful and its certainly a top track off of the album. Probably gets a 4
     
  17. Cosmiceddie

    Cosmiceddie Back From The Edge

    'no More Lies'

    'No more lies' is a great song and I claim that it is likely to become a regular live classic!The guitar harmonies are awesome as well as the intro.However, the chorus could have easily been reduced as for the number of repetitions especially at the end of the song.
     
  18. gor

    gor Ancient Mariner

    'no More Lies'

    [img src=\'http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/gorbeast/NomoreLies.jpg\' border=\'0\' alt=\'user posted image\' /]
     
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    'no More Lies'

    I fell for this song upon hearing the breathtaking intro at the shop. Along with Paschendale, it is my favourite on the album, with four and a half stars.

    Amazing song indeed. Again, a modern sound with some typical Maiden riffs, pounding rhythm, dreamy synths and a grinding chorus that simply works. The lyrics are excellent. They remind me somehow of Seventh Son, in blending thoughts of Christianity and reincarnation. I found these lines the most powerful:
    They're all sitting at my table, talking tall and drinking wine
    Their time is up just like me but they just don't know it yet


    and then
    I'm coming back to try again don't tell me that this is the end

    Steve Harris, at his ripe age, is still looking for answers. Funny, how youngsters tend to think they have them all.

    On another subject. I have been tempted many times to mention how the music of Maiden, the solos in particular, affect me. I found it inappropriate at Paschendale, so be it here. The solo part in this song is a great example of how physically one can perceive music. Maiden tends to have a short build-up before the solos, which then bring shivers to the body and soul. One of the best things, and typical Maiden, are the switches between players. I especially like it when Dave is first, then Adrian takes over. In this song, there are two switches, which makes it even better. What an experience!
     
  20. Prance

    Prance Invader

    Re: 'no More Lies'

    :rocker: No more Lies does make a point to be honest. I love it love Prance.
     

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