Mexico 2012 elections fraud

Well maybe some people here dont know but here in Mexico we had elections and the Party that ruled nonstop for 70 years and that was thrown out of the presidence in the 2000 seems that won the elections. But there are a looooooot of proofs that there was fraud and that the PRI (that party) bought a lot of votes with food, blankets, money et cetera. They even gave e-cards with credit from a big store called Soriana so people would vote for them. The day the elections happened a lot of people noticed it and now wants the candidate Enrique Peña Nieto to give up. And after all this mess, in twitter, an important newsman called Joaquin Lopez Doriga just twitted that everything was a fraud and he couldnt endure it anymore. This is important since a big part of enrique's campaign was supported by Televisa, country's main television broadcast comapny, and he works for them. What do outsiders think about this?
 

Ariana

Black-and-white leopard
Don't know what to say, man.
What are people's expectations of their coming back to power? I mean, is this party leftish, rightish, with authoritative tendencies, etc.? What policy are they likely to adopt?

I personally am sick and tired of politics, since in my country Bulgaria, election fraud has always been present. Apparently not on a large scale, as I doubt that there is a party here which is strong enough to win the elections entirely by fraud, but everyone knows that certain parties here bribe people to vote for them, so that they can win several places in Parliament.

To me they are all the same. It does not matter who wins the election, as nothing will change. Yes, we are a part of the EU and are likely to become a part of the eurozone as well, but I'm not sure that'll do us any good.
 
Yes, that guy most probably killed his wife since in an interview he couldnt name the reason of her death. Later he married a well-known soap opera or as we call it here telenovela actress, nicknamed the gool because of her most famous role.
His party, well they are central, with authoritative tendencies. They killed a lot of students in a famous killing in the 68 called "Matanza de Tlatelolco" they were protesting for them to open polithics to other parties. With that party we had several economical crysis and in the 92 they even killed their own candidate since he was willing to stop their corruption. By the end of the 90's things were about to explode, for luck the candidate of one of the other 2 big parties, the PAN, won those elections. And they bribe almost all their votes, they even send people 3 years before elections (here the elections are each 6 years) to begin buying votes, I know this because a cousin of my mother works in the government for them.
Things now are very tense, since there is proof of a lot of bribing and fraud in this elections, the IFE (Federal Elections Institute) is cornered right now, they dont know what to do.
 

bearfan

Ancient Mariner
One thing I found odd when reading about this is that the giving of gifts is not really illegal.

Here is a quote (saw the same content in a few other articles as well)
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2018593889_mexvote04.html
Under Mexican election law, giving voters gifts is not a crime unless the gift is conditioned on a certain vote or meant to influence a vote. However, the cost of such gifts must be reported, and cannot exceed campaign-spending limits. Violations are usually punished with fines but generally aren't considered grounds for annulling an election.

It just does not make sense though that if any political party or candidate was handing out gift cards or anything else of any real value, that there would ever be anything but at least a tacit understanding of a quid pro quo.

If Romney or Obama gave me a $50 GC for Target (or any other store), how else would I receive it as an attempt to make me at least like the campaign and perhaps vote for them?

It seems like a pretty bad loophole in Mexico's election laws.
 

LooseCannon

Enterprise-class aircraft carrier
Staff member
PRI was essentially a dictatorship for 70+ years. I wouldn't be surprised to see if they are rigging elections again.
 
Yes, as we call it here "The perfect dictatorship" since ignorant people thought back in the day they were living in a democracy because they voted, although the same party was in power for 70 years.
 

bearfan

Ancient Mariner
I admit to not following Mexican politics closely at all, I had thought there was a recent break where the PRI was out of power. In any case, this is certainly a mess and has been for some time.
 
Yes its a mess. And more now with the social networks everyone posted evidence of the fraud that was taking place, so authority now is cornered against the wall. And yesterday both candidates from right and left parties, the PAN and the PRD, disavowed the result of the elections declaring there was a big fraud. And about the gifts well, they asked you as a proof a photo of your vote for them, so it is conditioned. And the campaign expending limits well, they payed 148 millions of pesos (something like 13 million dollars) to the store f or the ecards and the whole budget was of 300 million pesos, and take in account thats only a little part of what they were giving people so they would vote for them :p They cant argue with that :p
 

bearfan

Ancient Mariner
It seems clear that there were probably widespread explicit cases of trying to buy votes, I guess my point was that having a low that allows gifts to voters is a) just asking for fraud like we have seen here b) even if not said explicitly, if someone approaches a generally apolitical/non involved citizen and gives them something of monetary value, it still seems like a quid pro quo is strongly implied.

If I were not overly interested in politics and candidate A gave me $50 and candidate B gave me nothing, I would feel at least some sort of obligation to condidate A.
 
D

Deleted member 7164

Guest
Bearfan,

could you please elaborate why do you see quid pro quo here? If you receive a gift from a candidate, without having legal obligations to vote for him afterwards, I see no problem. It's common practice here to organize public meals, and even throw away cheap money, in campaigns. For instance, our current mayor gave 20 euro to each retiree, provided that person lives in this city and has minimal pension. Yes, the gift-giving is a cheap gesture to win allegiance of those that desperately need help (and those 20 euro isn't going to help them at all), but politics is a circus and politicians are bastards in most cases. And our mayor is a illiterate dumb hillbilly who assumed position for only one goal, to place his family in high positions and secure contracts between city and his private enterprises. This tactic allows you to see who's a real scumbag - poverty is fought with plans and projects, not one time low-cost gifts. But, IMHO, it should be completely valid. What's the difference between handing out political party marketing material, such as hats, badges, keychains, lighters, etc. , and anything else?
 
And our mayor is a illiterate dumb hillbilly who assumed position for only one goal, to place his family in high positions and secure contracts between city and his private enterprises. This tactic allows you to see who's a real scumbag - poverty is fought with plans and projects, not one time low-cost gifts.
This is EXACTLY the same situation in lots of places here in Mexico. About illiterate dumbfucks, well Enrique Peña Nieto went at the beginning of the year to the International Book Fair of the city of Guadalajara here in Mexico. There the press asked him to tell them 3 books (ONLY3 BOOKS) that had influenced him in his life. He spent several minutes trying to think an answer and he finally answered: "I read the Bible in little parts, obviously since it is too long, a novel which name I cant remember and The Throne of the Eagle by Ernesto Krauze" Then everyone loled since the The Throne of the Eagle was written by Carlos Fuentes. I mean, even if you have not read anything, if you are a candidate and you are going to a Book Fair at least you should have a team of people to prepare you! Thats the level of his stupidity. Another of the reasons people know his only a puppet from ex-president Carlos Salinas (One of the most corrupt people of my country, and smartest of them all). Thats one of the many reasons we dont want him here.

Aaaaaand there are a lot of photos of PRI guys burning, literally BURNING the boxes with the votes. And the day after the places were the boxes were put blankets with the quantity of the votes for each candidate, what was funny was that 70% of the times those results didnt mach with the only ones in the website of the IFE, and almost giving extra votes to the PRI, in one they had 81 in the blankets and 801 in the website of the IFE
 

Onhell

Infinite Dreamer
Here's the thing. Sure the PRI ruled for 70 years. They stole from the country... yes, they enriched themselves yes. But they also created the Mexican Social Security among other programs that have benefited the poorest of the poor. Under Salinas (88-94) the highways were VASTLY improved. Sure his brother made a shit-ton of money off of that as it was his business, but he also happened to go to jail for his shady business deals.

People were sick of the election fraud, the corruption, the "dictatorship." So they voted for the PAN... twice. Under 12 years of PAN the drug war has escalated to unprecedented levels, insecurity is rampant in general. People think that by bringing back the PRI is the lesser of two evils. Flawed logic? Perhaps, but understandable reaction from a populace in fear, the Mexico is engaged in an abusive relationship with its rulers. We tried dating someone new, it wasn't rainbows and sunshine so we are going back to the dude that denigrated and insulted us, but didn't exactly beat us up. We will see what the future holds. Nobody talks about the U.S being controlled by a two-party dictatorship, The fact the PRI won means there won't be a PAN "dictatorship." Democracy is working in Mexico whether we like it or not.

Almost forgot. As for the gift giving. It is NOT buying of votes, because the person receiving the blanket, food or gift card is not contractually obligated to vote for the party that gave them the gift. They are still free to vote for whoever they want. But of course if someone gives you something for free you feel obligated to return the favor... but you don't have to.

The gift cards were reported to contain 500 pesos (37 U.S dollars), but ended up having only 100 (about 7.50).
 
Well if there was a drug war the first ones to blame are the PRI, since they let cartels get very deep into power. And there are a lot of witnesses that say that they asked you for a photo of your vote for the money. Yes they created all of those structures but the PAN also made of those, like the programa oportunidades, and the drug war began in 2008, then Fox has nothing to do with it. And the Zetas, a big cartel down here, well it was founded by ex-pri para-militar forces made by Salinas, but everyone forgets that. Yes we had progress with Salinas, but everything went very downhill with the crysis that came just 10 or 14 days after he abandoned presidence. And I think there has always been violence in Mexico, but the PRI knew how to hide it.

And dont forget that Salinas had a lot of dirty businesses by himself, forget his brother. And he obviously controls Peña Nieto :p I only hope PRI shits it big time again so people wont vote for them next elections.
 
Well as I stated above, there has always been violence in Mexico. but the PRI knew how to hide it. Some people even think that all the media coverage of the drug war is a strategy by the PRI to overthrow PAN but well those are paranoid people lol. And I find funny that the author of the book remarks that Mexico is "guilty" of all the things related to drug usage and mafia in the US... Although it looks good, maybe I will try to find it
I think the biggest mistake of Vicente Fox was to leave the PRI structure of corruption as it was, that was one of the things that made people think all politicians are the same.

Edit: And the autor has some mistakes, like the ones of the aztec prince or the phrase: Poor Mexico, so far from God but so near to the USA, wasnt made by Echeverría lol it was made by Porfirio Díaz in late XIXth Century
 
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