Metallica

Metal_made

Trooper
Metallica, a great band, they are popular worldwide and they sell millions of records, however a lot of their fans were dissapointed with their last albums arguing that the last great Metallica album was the Black, even there are some fans that say the last great Metallica album was ...And Justice for All, I don't know what to think about all of this, because I enjoy the albums that came out after the black album but I personally think that although it is good music, it isn't metal anymore, I think they have passed from metal to hard rock and the new album St. Anger sounds like nü metal, and all the guitar solos were gone, but like I said before it is not bad it's just different, but I came to the conclusion that the fans who were there at the very beginning hate all this changes. And I hate to admit that the first five albums are a lot better, because in those albums we have all the classics. Other people hate Metallica because of the Napster problem, I think I understand them because well, business are business but, in the other hand, they were already rich when this happened. So, the last thing I have to mention is that like all the things they haver their good things, and their bad things, but you can't say that they are a bad band, actually I find their work awesome, and I think they are the most representative band for Thrash Metal (In the good old glory days of course).
 
I agree with you. Metallica peaked at Master of Puppets, and slowly went downhill from there. However, the Black album, and even the two loads have good material in them. St. Anger on the other hand, is a very poor effort. Lars sounds like he is banging on tin cans, James' voice sounds like some cheap country-singer imitation, and the bass and guitar solos are non-existant. Sure, there are a lot of great metal anthems that don't have guitar solos, such as For Whom the Bell Tolls and Iron Maiden (the song), but at least some of the songs should have a guitar solo, especially since it's Metallica. Anyhow, Metallica is(was) a great band. My favorite Metallica song is Fade to Black and Damage Inc., and my favorite Metallica album is Ride the Lightning.
 
hmm, I would say something here except that Metallica has been discussed EXTENSIVELY in many different threads..... while this might be "new" to well... newer members (duh) a good deal of the "vets" have been here, done it, done it well, and left it begging for more.
 
To show what Onhell is talking about, here's a memorable Metallica thread:
[a href=\'http://forum.maidenfans.com/index.php?showtopic=6229\' target=\'_blank\']Why I own the Black Album[/a]
That thread was started by Onhell, and contains well-considered essays on the topic by Onhell and myself.
 
I think the discussion is legitimate, but I, too, think that the regulars said what they have to say on the matter. On another note, Metal made, please make your sentences readable by making them shorter.
 
A german pleading for shorter sentences? MY GOD! [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
Metallica were pretty crap after the Black Album, but they did make some good songs like 'Until it Sleeps', 'The Outlaw Torn', 'Fuel', 'King Nothing' and 'Fixxer'. However, 'Load' and 'Reload' were, on the whole, bad albums that get boring and tedious after a while. Garge Inc. was reasonably good. I really like the Diamond Head covers and 'Whiskey in a Jar'. The Motorhead covers are quite annnoying actually, but 'Astronomy' and 'Turn the Page' were excellent. I really hated 'Loverman' and 'Tuesday's Gone' though, they were a good reflection of where Metallica had gone with their previous two albums.

There isn't much to say about 'S&M' apart from ever so pointless.

'St.Anger was overall a bad album, but 'Invisible Kid' was a brilliant song. The lack of solos certainly hurt the album, just imagine 'Frantic' and 'Invisible Kid' with solos.....

So, the first four albums were excellent, and my favourite was 'Kill 'em All'. I just love 'The Four Horsemen' and 'Seek and Destroy'. The next album had classics like 'For Whom the Bell Tolls' and 'Creeping death'. I feel that 'Master of Puppets' was a pretty boring album with only the title track, 'Battery' 'Sanitarium' and 'Disposable Heroes' being classics. '...And Justice for All' was a good album but didn't have that great a sound quality to it. I struggle to hear the bass alot. Still' 'One' and 'Dyers Eve' were amazing songs though.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Perun+Dec 8 2005, 01:07 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Perun @ Dec 8 2005, 01:07 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]On another note, Metal made, please make your sentences readable by making them shorter.
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Okay, I will. [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Metal_made+Dec 7 2005, 10:29 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Metal_made @ Dec 7 2005, 10:29 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] actually I find their work awesome, and I think they are the most representative band for Trash Metal (In the good old glory days of course).
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I woud never really describe Metallica as being thrash although I don't really know what to describe them as. The most representative American thrash band(s) for me would be either Exodus (co-founded by Kirk) or Testament. As regards the subject of Metallica before or after the Black Album I'd say the last great record they made was Master Of Puppets. I think they went downhill from there on and, although there are some songs on the later albums (One, Dyers Eve, etc.), none of them live up to the early stuff for me.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Ascendancy+Dec 8 2005, 12:59 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Ascendancy @ Dec 8 2005, 12:59 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]I feel that 'Master of Puppets' was a pretty boring album with only the title track, 'Battery' 'Sanitarium' and 'Disposable Heroes' being classics.
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That's half of the album. Albums on which half of the songs are classics are actually quite rare.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Metal_made+Dec 7 2005, 04:29 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Metal_made @ Dec 7 2005, 04:29 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]I came to the conclusion that the fans who were there at the very beginning hate all this changes.
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This sentence from the initial post brings up an interesting point. I wasn't there quite at the very beginning, but I have been a Metallica fan since 1985 (the Ride The Lightning days). And I don't hate all the changes, precisely because I've grown up during the past 20 years just like Metallica themselves have. I'm even learning to appreciate St. Anger in the few moments when I can ignore the godawful sound of the so-called "drums".

I'm curious to know how many people here who say "Metallica went downhill after their 3rd (or 4th (or 5th)) album" are actually old enough to remember those times. I suspect most people who criticize the later albums are actually quite young.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-SinisterMinisterX+Dec 8 2005, 07:56 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ Dec 8 2005, 07:56 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]That's half of the album. Albums on which half of the songs are classics are actually quite rare.
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Some bands struggle to make albums with all the songs being classics.

The problem with 'Puppets' is that the other half is pretty low quality snd lags behind the average songs of 'Justice'. On the Black Album almost all the songs are exceptional quality, I don't think it's possible to say that there is a boring or low quality song there.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Metal_made+Dec 8 2005, 09:24 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Metal_made @ Dec 8 2005, 09:24 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Okay, I will.  [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
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Thanks [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--]


Now, my opinion on Metallica:

I do not like everything Metallica made, not even everything that was [span style=\'color:eek:range\']Before The Black Album[/span]. There are some things I love -such as Fade To Black, Seek And Destroy or Master Of Puppets to name but a few- and some I don't like.
The Black Album, in my opinion, is a very good album. It catches the right edge between the more melodic and the more thrashy sides of the bands music. This is music I really enjoy. I personally think it is the fact that this album got a professional production and the fact that it was so successful that makes people think it is a sell-out.
I must honestly say that I have not paid so much attention to the bands work in the mid- and late nineties (although I do like some parts of Garage Inc.).

I have heard St. Anger and I did not like it. Some of the material would be OK (especially the title track), but the drums ruin it. I can't listen to it because of the drums. I tried to. But it just didn't work. If the album was made with a different drum sound, I would even consider it a fair album, close to average. But it was not to be.

I do not blame the band. I don't think they sold out. I think they made and make the music they want to do, they feel like doing and the one that expresses what they want to tell us -whatever that may be. This kind of stuff evolves over time. Musicians change, they can't remain the same people over the course of twenty years, nobody can. I personally despise people who say "they lost it" after hearing an album by an artist they did not like. In the last fifteen years, Iron Maiden lost "it" six times, Metallica four times, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know what kind of music Metallica will make in the future, but I will decide whether I like it or not after I heard it.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Ascendancy+Dec 8 2005, 02:13 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Ascendancy @ Dec 8 2005, 02:13 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Some bands struggle to make albums with all the songs being classics.
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Most bands do. Very few succeed.

[!--QuoteBegin-Ascendancy+Dec 8 2005, 02:13 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Ascendancy @ Dec 8 2005, 02:13 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]The problem with 'Puppets' is that the other half is pretty low quality snd lags behind the average songs of 'Justice'. On the Black Album almost all the songs are exceptional quality, I don't think it's possible to say that there is a boring or low quality song there.
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I entirely disagree. The only weak song on Master Of Puppets is "Leper Messiah", and even that one's pretty good.

While the majority of the songs on the Black Album are very good, there are a few that fall flat: "Holier Than Thou", "Don't Tread On Me", "The God That Failed", "The Struggle Within" and especially "Nothing Else Matters". I never understood why so many people like that song; in my opinion, it's one of the most boring and worthless things Metallica have ever recorded.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-SinisterMinisterX+Dec 9 2005, 12:25 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ Dec 9 2005, 12:25 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] and especially "Nothing Else Matters". I never understood why so many people like that song; in my opinion, it's one of the most boring and worthless things Metallica have ever recorded.
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I'm one of them [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--] I like it a lot, the lyrics I could give or take, but the music... it's awesome, and when Apocalyptica covered it it was HEAVEN.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-SinisterMinisterX+Dec 9 2005, 12:25 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ Dec 9 2005, 12:25 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--].
I entirely disagree. The only weak song on Master Of Puppets is "Leper Messiah", and even that one's pretty good.
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I disagree. Firstly, I find that 'The Thing that should not be' and 'Damage Inc' are quite bad. I like the lyrics of 'The Thing...' but not the song itself, and 'Damage Inc' is a great song on first listen but there's nothing left upon later listens, as there is with the title track, or even 'Enter Sandman'.
The Instrumental 'Orion' is basically quite crap for the reason that it just can't compare to 'Call of Ktulu' or the novelty of hearing a bass solo in 'Pulling Teeth'.
Again, with 'Leper Messiah' the lyrics and riff are good, but the song gets boring eventually. I wouldn't call it a classic, but it's alright now and again.

[!--QuoteBegin-SinisterMinisterX+Dec 9 2005, 12:25 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ Dec 9 2005, 12:25 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--].
While the majority of the songs on the Black Album are very good, there are a few that fall flat: "Holier Than Thou", "Don't Tread On Me", "The God That Failed", "The Struggle Within" and especially "Nothing Else Matters". I never understood why so many people like that song; in my opinion, it's one of the most boring and worthless things Metallica have ever recorded.
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'Nothing Else Matters' is, in my opinion, a great song because it is different from everything else they've done (Except mabye 'Fade to Black'). The lyrics are good (although sort of repeated) the chorus is good and combines well with the orchestra. The solo is short but sweet. It sounds really good after the slow balladry.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Metal_made+Dec 8 2005, 01:29 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Metal_made @ Dec 8 2005, 01:29 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Trash Metal
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[/quote]Don't I know it! I hear "not that metal trash again" on a daily basis [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--]


Thank you, residents, for letting this thread live, so even newer members can express their opinion about Metallica, without breaking the rule of reviving a dead thread.

I'm one of those people who don't think much of post-Eighties Metallica (with the exception of Garage, Inc.) and that's it. I have a few favourites off each 80s album. Some of them are "Motorbreath" (fabulous energy, pure joy - one of my favourite Metallica songs in general), "The Call of Ktulu", "Orion" and of course, "One", which in my opinion has all three aspects that can make a good song - feeling, thoughtful lyrics and flawless musical structure.
To make a very general final comment, I'd say Metallica was far better in its beginnings when they compromised less about their sound, message and attitude. But it wouldn't be fair to just say that they sold out in the 90s. We all know what happened in the end of the 80s to rock music in the broadest sense of the word. Each star band dealt with it in their own way.
 
I think Metallica changed not just their style, but also their image in the early 90s. They sold out their classic sound, it was always indistinguishable from everybody else. They had bad times with drugs and alcohol etc and saw themselves losing fans so they adapted to suit their new audience, losing a lot of their old fans in the process.

This is exactly the opposite of what Maiden did early 90s. A couple of poor albums saw them losing fans but they still never lost their unique toch and came out with the mid-90s classic - TXF.

I think the problem with Metallica was not just down to the times, the personalities of the members also had an effect. it's hard to blame somebody for "selling out" to makie more money when they could have made millions. Would you turn it down?

In conclusion, I think it's worth our time appreciating Metallica for what they were, not what they are. We should concentrate on their classic material from MoP and RtL, and let the mallcore kids claim Metallica as their own. At least we can have a private laugh to ourselves when we see a 13 year old skateboarder wearing a St Anger shirt [!--emo&:p--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Conor+Dec 12 2005, 05:51 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Conor @ Dec 12 2005, 05:51 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]At least we can have a private laugh to ourselves when we see a 13 year old skateboarder wearing a St Anger shirt [!--emo&:p--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
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The artwork from St. Anger was actually really good. I have the poster because it looks cool, not because it was an incredible album.
 
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