Maiden's energy

[nuno_c]

So i was having an argument with a friend about Motorhead (RIP Lemmy) and other bands that sound really energetic, and his point was that Iron Maiden never sounds really energetic on record because they're "way too good musicians to really be able to just lose themselves in the music". I think what he was trying to say was that many times "lesser" musicians tend to be more energetic while playing because they're not so "self-conscious", or because they don't know that much about musical theory.

In a way i get his point, but at the same time i never really thought about the energy level on Maiden records before. I guess the only ones where i hear a significant lack of energy are TXF and VXI, in those records they clearly lost something on that department.

But what do you guys think? Are Maiden a band that doesn't sound that energetic on record? And, if so, is it because they're "capable" musicians?

 

[JudasMyGuide]

I completely disagree with your friend - I think that band's energy, whichever way it might be presented (sound, stage presence etc.) is not connected at all with their technical proficiency. Or maybe it's inverse - the more proficient musicians, the more exciting music for me. I personally hear no significant "energy" differences between Motorhead, Maiden and Dream Theater, for example.

Energy is a vague term anyway, and it's importance is questionable at best - TXF is a bleak, contemplative record, so I wouldn't really expect it to be hyper-energetic, but is that good or bad? Does the fact the band can't play all that much, so it's messy and loud, make it more energetic? Is a virtuoso pianist, who blows me away with his excellent interpretation of Liszt's Transcendental Etudes or the third movement of Ludwig van's Moonlight Sonata and whose hands are nearly invisible somehow "not energetic", because he plays classical and he's absurdly competent?

All I can say is that with Maiden I notice their undeniable ability to get your heart pumping - in fact, more than with most other bands. You could argue as to why it is so, you could call it "sonic populism" (as my friend once had), but to say they lack energy sounds... pretty bizarre to me, honestly.

 

[Black Bart]

I guess the only ones where i hear a significant lack of energy are TXF and VXI, in those records they clearly lost something on that department.

I disagree for VXI as far as the guitars are concerned, particularly during the solos.

 

[nuno_c]

@JudasMyGuide , i get your point. And i agree, i mean, Maiden DO have a lot of energy in their playing, but i think you kind of missed my friend's point...

I think he was trying to get across the "fact" that many times virtuoso/really good musicians (take Maiden as an example) somehow lose the raw aspect of playing, and by raw he did not mean bad at all.

That's when he started to talk about Motorhead, and how Lemmy was a good example of a very solid bass player and yet could always maintain that certain raw AND energetic aspect to his playing while still doing it in a very solid way, you know?

And that was when i started to think about Maiden's playing energy for the very first time

 

[nuno_c]

I disagree for VXI as far as the guitars are concerned, particularly during the solos.

Interesting. I'm not sure yet about what made VXI sound so not energetic (although i like and defend the album). Never understood if it was the drums or vocals or a mixture of both.

As for the guitars... I don't know if they're energetic on their own or if they just suffer from the drum and vocal performances. Could you elaborate a bit more? I know it's all subjective, but... The album just has an unexplainable mystique for me, maybe because i have a passion for underdogs

 

[Lego]

I think your friend is way off base Nicko definitely "looses himself" in the music! You can hear it on the live albums especially- rarely does he play anything the same way twice. He's always very off-the-cuff and improvisational, coming up with spontaneous new fills and things to add to the tunes. If that's not energetic, I don't know what is.


And don't even get me started on Bruce...

 

[nuno_c]

I think your friend is way off base Nicko definitely "looses himself" in the music! You can hear it on the live albums especially- rarely does he play anything the same way twice. He's always very off-the-cuff and improvisational, coming up with spontaneous new fills and things to add to the tunes. If that's not energetic, I don't know what is.


And don't even get me started on Bruce...

I do get your point, and yes, i did want to strangle my buddy But we were talking about studio albums, not live ones. Had he said what he said while talking about live albums we now would be friends no more

 

[Shavasku]

You know, the first thing I listened from Maiden was Rock In Rio 2001. Then, as I started to know more about Maiden's discography, I found out that ALL songs they performed live were better than studio. So, basically, since the beginning, I always considered Maiden as a live band, and I think this is a great thing. It does not mean that they lack energy in studio - it just means that they are better live. Take Blood Brothers as example and compare the studio version with Rock In Rio version. Am I the only one who thinks the live version is like 10 times better? The same applies to all other songs, maybe with the exception of BNW, which is like in the same level with the studio.

Now take Metallica, especially nowadays... Metallica albums sounds much better than their live concerts. Much better! Is that a great thing? I don't think so. I love Metallica, but I'd rather listen to their studio albums than their live concerts. Ride the Lightning is a masterpiece, but when you listen to the songs played live, it is just not the same - even though it looks like things were a bit different on 80's.

So, yeah... I think it's just that Maiden's performance live is spectacular and sometimes it might make their studio performance look "weak".

 

[nuno_c]

Good point, @Shavasku

 

[Maturin]

For me, energy is about dynamics and timing. Though there are probably some exceptions out there, music is basically about establishing a beat and playing to that. If it was a computer which played everything, it could establish a beat and calculate exactly where it would be so everything was perfectly on time. Live musicians has to relate to each other... And that's where it gets both tricky, and fun - and where the essence of what is usually called "feel" begins.

Pretty much every musician out there have a flawed sense of time. That's just a consequence of us being human and not machines. Many bassplayers a just a tiny bit too slow, many guitarplayers too eager and get ahead. But as long as that difference is tiny, your human ears won't hear it as out of time, but it will instead give the music a certain feel. Hopefully, this feel proves to be mesmirizing. Really talented/formally instructed musicians can perhaps control this, for self taught rock musicians it's mostly about throwing things together and arriving at a sound... And that's why you have these legendary units, reasonable talented musicians who together sounded incredible. They just happened to click.

With Iron Maiden, it's a bit unusual in that the bassplayer is the eager one... For me, the feel begins and ends with how everyone reacts to the driving bass. With Clive, the band was steady, with Nicko it's more like someone riding a bike and juggling while looking just a bit unsteady. It's certainly an "on one's toes"-feel. But it rarely goes from that to sounding bad, the bicycling juggler keeps making it. To me, being able to recreate that feeling night after night is the reason this band has been able to build a musical empire over the last 40 years.

In a way i get his point, but at the same time i never really thought about the energy level on Maiden records before. I guess the only ones where i hear a significant lack of energy are TXF and VXI, in those records they clearly lost something on that department.

I disagree wholeheartedly. May I enlighten you with a listen to the interlude in "Judgement of Heaven"? Right after the solos, there's a passage where the guitars play a unison melody over a very clear bass & drum backing. Nevermind the melody for now, listen to how Steve locks in with Nicko. It sounds like they could tear the planet apart with that groove.

Could it have been more powerfully mixed, as in (for example) more compressed to stand out more? Sure. But something would have been lost with that too. As it stands, The X Factor is a very fine example of the band's dynamics and musicianship. Can't say Kevin Shirley really managed to capture that, for all his talk about recording live (and whatever they sounded like originally, the 1998 CD remasters does not sound very good either).

 

[nuno_c]

I disagree wholeheartedly. May I enlighten you with a listen to the interlude in "Judgement of Heaven"? Right after the solos, there's a passage where the guitars play a unison melody over a very clear bass & drum backing. Nevermind the melody for now, listen to how Steve locks in with Nicko. It sounds like they could tear the planet apart with that groove.

I will indeed listen again to that part and will post my conclusions.

Btw, your whole post was very good! Thanks

 

[Sth2112]

One cool thing about Maiden that I really love, is that they all have (at least Steve and Dave) played Iron Maiden, Hallowed, Trooper, 666 and 2 minutes to midnight about 2000 times live all over the years, and the guys NEVER seem to be tired or bored of those songs, and when they are performing them night after night. They still seem to enjoy playing them live as much as when they were played live for the first time

 

[nuno_c]

One cool thing about Maiden that I really love, is that they all have (at least Steve and Dave) played Iron Maiden, Hallowed, Trooper, 666 and 2 minutes to midnight about 2000 times live all over the years, and the guys NEVER seem to be tired or bored of those songs, and when they are performing them night after night. They still seem to enjoy playing them live as much as when they were played live for the first time

Totally true. And actually, one of the main things that really got me into Maiden was the fact that they all seem to be really happy while playing the songs, like it brings them a great joy to perform them

 

[Pand]

Totally true. And actually, one of the main things that really got me into Maiden was the fact that they all seem to be really happy while playing the songs, like it brings them a great joy to perform them

I love this fact about them too. As a non-musician, I'm in awe of their relentless passion when I see them giving yet another killer performance of Hallowed Be Thy Name.

 

[nuno_c]

I love this fact about them too. As a non-musician, I'm in awe of their relentless passion when I see them giving yet another killer performance of Hallowed Be Thy Name.

Exactly. And it does not seem at all contrived to me

 

[Travis The Dragon]

I feel that most of the songs on Maiden's albums have a lot of energy to them and they do a great job of translating that energy into their live shows. I can't really explain what I mean in too much detail. It's just the way I see and hear them.